Originally Posted by FATCHOPS:
“I agree with baldbilluk.”
“I agree with baldbilluk.”
your just as bad then.
Why was Jessica Stevenson...
3 of 4
Originally Posted by Shinyteapot:
“I suppose he could have turned up at another time before he jumped into the party on a horse, provided he could pretend he was still moving between time periods on that spaceship- I don't think she knew how many times she'd see him (? may be remembering wrong), only that he would turn up and save her when she needed him to.
I didn't like the whole goodbye to everyone thing to be honest, but since it was done, Reinette probably should have been at least mentioned.”
“I suppose he could have turned up at another time before he jumped into the party on a horse, provided he could pretend he was still moving between time periods on that spaceship- I don't think she knew how many times she'd see him (? may be remembering wrong), only that he would turn up and save her when she needed him to.
I didn't like the whole goodbye to everyone thing to be honest, but since it was done, Reinette probably should have been at least mentioned.”
Absolutely.
Afterall Stevenson's character was emotionally connected to John Smith not the Doctor.
I can't help feeling that if Sophia Myles was available or less in demand etc then she may have been in it. Otherwise it is just a baffling omission. He fell in love with her and was prepared to ditch Rose.
That speaks volumes.
Originally Posted by poppycod:
“Absolutely.
Afterall Stevenson's character was emotionally connected to John Smith not the Doctor.
I can't help feeling that if Sophia Myles was available or less in demand etc then she may have been in it. Otherwise it is just a baffling omission. He fell in love with her and was prepared to ditch Rose.
That speaks volumes.”
“Absolutely.
Afterall Stevenson's character was emotionally connected to John Smith not the Doctor.
I can't help feeling that if Sophia Myles was available or less in demand etc then she may have been in it. Otherwise it is just a baffling omission. He fell in love with her and was prepared to ditch Rose.
That speaks volumes.”
He wasn't prepared to ditch Rose for her. He admired her character and was prepared to take her with him and show her the universe along with Rose
Originally Posted by DavidG_UK:
“He wasn't prepared to ditch Rose for her. He admired her character and was prepared to take her with him and show her the universe along with Rose”
“He wasn't prepared to ditch Rose for her. He admired her character and was prepared to take her with him and show her the universe along with Rose”
What about when he realised he may have to give up the Tardis and his adventures to stay on Earth with her? He made a decision to abandon everything for her thinking he would be marooned. If that is not ditching Rose, then what is?
Originally Posted by poppycod:
“What about when he realised he may have to give up the Tardis and his adventures to stay on Earth with her? He made a decision to abandon everything for her thinking he would be marooned. If that is not ditching Rose, then what is?”
“What about when he realised he may have to give up the Tardis and his adventures to stay on Earth with her? He made a decision to abandon everything for her thinking he would be marooned. If that is not ditching Rose, then what is?”
He wasn't with Rose at the time, so how could he ditch someone he wasn't with?
Originally Posted by poppycod:
“If that is not ditching Rose, then what is?”
“If that is not ditching Rose, then what is?”
I've had to ask myself that quite a few times while watching RTD-era Who. She's the only person equal to the Daleks in her ability to be absolutely definitely gone forever. And back again!
EDIT:
Originally Posted by TheWayItIs:
“He wasn't with Rose at the time, so how could he ditch someone he wasn't with?”
“He wasn't with Rose at the time, so how could he ditch someone he wasn't with?”
I think the point is that the Doctor is there behind the mirror with Rose and Mickey, but choses to leap through it on a horse believing that will strand him.
Baldbilluk - you didn't even know her connection to the show. You obviously have something against her or are a WUM.
All this talk of going back to see the Madame is complete nonsense.
He realises how complicated his history with her was and the fact that his time with her had a beginning, middle and definite end.
In his mind, she is dead. Before that, his past self is dealing with her so he can't cross his own time stream.
Maybe, just maybe they should've had a scene with him visiting her grave, but that's not really much of a "reward" is it?
He realises how complicated his history with her was and the fact that his time with her had a beginning, middle and definite end.
In his mind, she is dead. Before that, his past self is dealing with her so he can't cross his own time stream.
Maybe, just maybe they should've had a scene with him visiting her grave, but that's not really much of a "reward" is it?
Originally Posted by TEDR:
“I've had to ask myself that quite a few times while watching RTD-era Who. She's the only person equal to the Daleks in her ability to be absolutely definitely gone forever. And back again!
EDIT:
I think the point is that the Doctor is there behind the mirror with Rose and Mickey, but choses to leap through it on a horse believing that will strand him.”
“I've had to ask myself that quite a few times while watching RTD-era Who. She's the only person equal to the Daleks in her ability to be absolutely definitely gone forever. And back again!
EDIT:
I think the point is that the Doctor is there behind the mirror with Rose and Mickey, but choses to leap through it on a horse believing that will strand him.”
exactly right - he forsakes Rose for Reinette.
And then within a few episodes he is madly in love with her.
That Reinette is not even mentioned in the soupy, schamltzy last 15 mins of the episode TEOT2 is weird.
Originally Posted by codename_47:
“All this talk of going back to see the Madame is complete nonsense.
He realises how complicated his history with her was and the fact that his time with her had a beginning, middle and definite end.
In his mind, she is dead. Before that, his past self is dealing with her so he can't cross his own time stream.
Maybe, just maybe they should've had a scene with him visiting her grave, but that's not really much of a "reward" is it?”
“All this talk of going back to see the Madame is complete nonsense.
He realises how complicated his history with her was and the fact that his time with her had a beginning, middle and definite end.
In his mind, she is dead. Before that, his past self is dealing with her so he can't cross his own time stream.
Maybe, just maybe they should've had a scene with him visiting her grave, but that's not really much of a "reward" is it?
”
I totally agree.
By going to see Reinette he would be crossing his own Timeline, which is bad.
Even if he did manage to see her inbetween visits from his earlier self it would cause more problems that it solved. If it was after the Doctor had told her he would take her to see the stars she would expect to leave with him, which she can't because we know she dies in France, and if it was before it would ruin the continuity with that episode because the Doc would have to explain "this is future me, I'm dying, well I'm not Dying, I'm going to be a different person, it's like dying you'll see me again but that is in my past and your future, oh never mind." it would be rediculous and would give more questions that it would answer and wouldn't give the tenth doc any form of closure, which is what he is looking for in his last moments as Doc10. Visiting her grave wouldn't do much in the way of closure either, intead reminding him of another person he failed.
Originally Posted by Zeg:
“Is Reinette an RTD or an SM character?
That could be your answer.”
“Is Reinette an RTD or an SM character?
That could be your answer.”
Jessica Hyne's character wasn't exactly a RTD creation.
Originally Posted by codename_47:
“Jessica Hyne's character wasn't exactly a RTD creation.”
“Jessica Hyne's character wasn't exactly a RTD creation.”
Next you'll be telling me that there really was a Madame de Pompadour in real life
Well I thought your original point that I was replying to was that RTD didn't write "Girl the the Fireplace" so he wasn't letting the Doctor visit another writer's character out of some petty jealousy or something.
I was pointing out that The Family of Blood/Human Nature wasn't one of his episodes either so if that was the case he wouldn't have had the booksigning scene in there...
But if that wasn't the case then I apologise
I was pointing out that The Family of Blood/Human Nature wasn't one of his episodes either so if that was the case he wouldn't have had the booksigning scene in there...
But if that wasn't the case then I apologise
Originally Posted by poppycod:
“That he would visit the grand-daughter of someone that his alter-ego (John Smith) fell in love with, and not visit at all Reinette is bizarre.”
“That he would visit the grand-daughter of someone that his alter-ego (John Smith) fell in love with, and not visit at all Reinette is bizarre.”
He can't cross his own timeline. Did you not wonder why he didn't simply hop in the TARDIS to see Reinette at the end of The Girl In The Fireplace? In fact the question of why he doesn't simply use his time machine to see her despite missing the time window is answered on the TARDIS wikia.
Originally Posted by codename_47:
“All this talk of going back to see the Madame is complete nonsense.
He realises how complicated his history with her was and the fact that his time with her had a beginning, middle and definite end.
In his mind, she is dead. Before that, his past self is dealing with her so he can't cross his own time stream.
Maybe, just maybe they should've had a scene with him visiting her grave, but that's not really much of a "reward" is it?”
“All this talk of going back to see the Madame is complete nonsense.
He realises how complicated his history with her was and the fact that his time with her had a beginning, middle and definite end.
In his mind, she is dead. Before that, his past self is dealing with her so he can't cross his own time stream.
Maybe, just maybe they should've had a scene with him visiting her grave, but that's not really much of a "reward" is it?
”
It's a show about time travel! Who says his meetings with Rennaite have to be linear? Have you seen The Time Travellers Wife? He could have gone to see her in between the visits in Girl In The Fireplace without corrupting the timelines.
I read it as him going to see Jessica's character not because he had been passionately in love with her grandmother (as the Doctor) but because he was tying up loose ends. He asked if she had been happy. He had come into her life and messed around with it and then left again. I didn't see that he had any need to see her, just check she had been ok.
Originally Posted by Zeg:
“Is Reinette an RTD or an SM character?
That could be your answer.”
“Is Reinette an RTD or an SM character?
That could be your answer.”
You could be right there.
All the bunkum about the Doc not going to see her becuase of crossing timelines is just a cop out. The writer could have found some way to include her if he'd really wanted too (see the numerous unnecessary and unwelcome returns of Rose to exemplify this).
No it's not a cop-out, it's the answer to all these "why didn't he just get in the TARDIS and do X to avoid plot element Y". It's being consistent with the rules established in that universe. Ignoring them for David Tennant looking sadly at the Mme would be a cop-out.
Originally Posted by Aenaryn:
“No it's not a cop-out, it's the answer to all these "why didn't he just get in the TARDIS and do X to avoid plot element Y". It's being consistent with the rules established in that universe. Ignoring them for David Tennant looking sadly at the Mme would be a cop-out.”
“No it's not a cop-out, it's the answer to all these "why didn't he just get in the TARDIS and do X to avoid plot element Y". It's being consistent with the rules established in that universe. Ignoring them for David Tennant looking sadly at the Mme would be a cop-out.”
Of course its a cop out. Writers can break any rules they want (witness RTD's continual breaking of said "writers' rules" with him bringing back Rose time and time again with some convenient way of doing it.
It is obvious that Reinette's story was deliberately ignored so as not to detract from that of Rose - even though the Doc fell in love with Reinette and was shown to choose her over Rose.
If they had wanted to bring in Reinette or even have the Doc talk to her grandaughter, they could have.
But that particular story (possible one of the top 3 or 4 episodes since 2005, and one of the Doctor's most emotional moments) was deliberately marginalised and forgotten about.
God some people.
He didn't visit Reinette (Mdm De Pompadour) for the same reason he did not visit Nurse Redfern - He would have crossed his own timeline, but more importantly he would have affected their timelines and he cannot do that. It was naughty what he did to Rose but he just wanted to see her one last time and he knew visiting her before they met would not cause a major time crisis.
Did nobody notice that Jessica's character was called Verity Newman as shown on the cover of the book she was signing. The reason it was in there was (IMO) just a little goodbye from RTD to the whole series not just the character of Joan Redfern or The Doctor.
I thought it was a subtle and nice touch which referenced an episode which was considered to be amongst the best of the whole of DT's reign as well as the originators of the programme back in 1963.
A tad self indulgent - maybe.
A crime against the series - absolutley no way.
Oh and Jessica Hynes (Stevenson) is lovely and a very talented actress/comedienne and her 30 second appearance cheered me up during all the sadness.
He didn't visit Reinette (Mdm De Pompadour) for the same reason he did not visit Nurse Redfern - He would have crossed his own timeline, but more importantly he would have affected their timelines and he cannot do that. It was naughty what he did to Rose but he just wanted to see her one last time and he knew visiting her before they met would not cause a major time crisis.
Did nobody notice that Jessica's character was called Verity Newman as shown on the cover of the book she was signing. The reason it was in there was (IMO) just a little goodbye from RTD to the whole series not just the character of Joan Redfern or The Doctor.
I thought it was a subtle and nice touch which referenced an episode which was considered to be amongst the best of the whole of DT's reign as well as the originators of the programme back in 1963.
A tad self indulgent - maybe.
A crime against the series - absolutley no way.
Oh and Jessica Hynes (Stevenson) is lovely and a very talented actress/comedienne and her 30 second appearance cheered me up during all the sadness.
Originally Posted by poppycod:
“You could be right there.
All the bunkum about the Doc not going to see her becuase of crossing timelines is just a cop out. The writer could have found some way to include her if he'd really wanted too (see the numerous unnecessary and unwelcome returns of Rose to exemplify this).”
“You could be right there.
All the bunkum about the Doc not going to see her becuase of crossing timelines is just a cop out. The writer could have found some way to include her if he'd really wanted too (see the numerous unnecessary and unwelcome returns of Rose to exemplify this).”
The rules about the Doctor crossing his own timeline were established during Jon Pertwee's time but were in place before that.
It only happens in extreme emergencies - such as in the Three and Five Doctors or if The Doctors actual existence is threatened as in The Two Doctors.
If it was a cop out The Doctor would have been able to save Adric from crashing at the end of Earthshock, but he could not.
If the Doctor visiting Reinette would have been crossing his own timeline, wasn't his visiting Rose before she knew him the same?
3 of 4
