One of the most jarring scenes in an otherwise welcome return for the Time Lords was the bit with the female seer. Although the Time Lords were portrayed (since the relaunch) often as omniscient and omnipotent and certainly as eminient scientists they were actively seeking the advice of the supernatural expert / 'wise woman' / seer!

You would have thought that if any race of beings is least likely to have the need of a sorceress or medium to see into the future it would be them!

It got me thinking about how prophecy has crept into the show as of late. Most of Dr Who over the last 40 years or so has hitherto shown that there is no supernatural or paranormal and that everything has rational scientific explanations.

For example recall Doc 3's scorn at those digging at Devil's End who feared black magic and demons.

Yet the show has over the last few years been introducing a more prophetic / supernatural feel to it. Are there scientific, or rational explanations for things like:

* The mad female Time Lord's propehcy - was this supposedly some sort of magic knowledge or, if it is just a time loop or a paradox why did the other Time Lords not work it out and instead rely on her mumblings and 'crazy utterances'?

* The Ood propehcy. - Again how did they have so much insight and prior knowledge?

* The references to Hell made by Doc10 - he seemed to be suggesting a real Hell would be unleashed if the Time Lords survived. It seemed a sort of biblical type of Hell too, not just a metaphor.

For a show centred around a great scientist the Doctor seemed to be giving great credence to basic magic and unscientific prophecy.

You forgot Dalek Caan and the Beast.

There were also prophecies in the Pompeii episode. I agree, there's been a lot of it in New Who...

Prophecies are the fact that you can see the future, I think we can all agree on that.
Hence, even if there is no outspoken scientific explanation in the show, a character who can see the future is probably only just sensitive to the complexities of what the Time Vortex holds, exactly in the way that the Doctor has said that an event is a fixed point in time, or when he says that he sees what will be, what could be, etc.
It has been shown that some human characters are sensitive to telepathy (for example Tim Latimer in Human Nature). Why some others wouldn't be sensitive to Time ?
As for the female Time Lord and Dalek Caan, they are obviously from two races who know what the future holds because they can travel in time.
So instead of prophecies, it's just foreknowledge.

In the Classic Series, we had a whole race of 'time-sensitives' in the shape of the Tharils.

Regards,

Cypher

Oh, I haven't come across those yet ! In which story are they ?

yet the characterisation of the female mad Time Lord is quite deliberately constructed so as to appear un-scientific and 'magic'. (it was something you would expect to see in Harry Potter).
The prophecy angle has been deliberately portrayed as supernatural and 'beyond' the other Time Lords understanding. The actual programmes have done nothing to suggest that it is scientific or rational at all. Far from it.

Strangely enough, the Beast prophesied that Rose would die in battle soon, yet she was only recorded as dead in the official statistics for the Battle of Canary Wharf. He must have cheated and Googled her name.

They were in 'Warriors' Gate', Solamenn.

Like the Ood, they were also enslaved, but, this time, directly because of their time-sensitive nature.

Regards,

Cypher

I had the Beast down as a Yahoo-man, myself...

Regards,

Cypher

This just shows the current trend in society: reject religion as unscientific nonsense, but embrace all kinds of mysticism such as horoscopes, clairvoyancy etc.

No, Dalek Caan and the female Time Lord both share madness which is, as you may know from your classics, a usual character to represent the one who says the truth, which is particularly blatant in the case of Dalek Caan.
Such characters rely on a particular representation, usually one of unusual, eccentric appearance (the fact that the woman has tattos on her face or the fact that Caan is outside his casing). That representation doesn't put in perspective the fact that both belong to a race who knows and sees the Time Vortex.
But if it's only the costume and the protrayal that were a problem to you, then it's not related to the prophecies themselves, but only to the costume department.
If you want to look for supernatural in Doctor Who there are indeed some examples, but I'm afraid you're picking at one which can easily be explained away by science.

Whatever happened to Altavista?

Excellent : we have already planned the E-Space trilogy in our Classic Who group watching. I'm looking forward to this one then ! Actually, I was already looking forward the trilogy as I love the Fourth Doctor, but more anticipation is always welcome
Thanks for the info Tim

We had the whole Bad Wolf thing which was caused by Rose. Really it can be explained by the amount of time the void was open, time and space being ripped apart and it is simply a consequence.

Yep the crazy old timelord lady was definitely channelling the hag from Robin Hood prince of thieves to me. I quite liked it myself (obvs) as it was definitely a little bit of fantasy and magic and i welcome that. its fiction after all and it baffles me when people get all serious and precious over the science but forget the FICTION bit. but i guess those are the types of people that sit down with a pen and paper when they watch DS9 and other such trash and smile smugly and profess 'the science actually works!'...yawn!

There have been many "prophecy" stories in the old series of Doctor Who - I can remember a Davidson story which had a prophecy story of the face of someone in a church - or was that Pertwee?

I prefered webcrawler and hot bot when I was in my 20's.

Lol, it just popped into my head that when i was a wee girl i remember using altavista! i can picture its logo now. funny.

I assumed that all Time Lords could, to a greater or lesser extent, see what impact events would have on the timelines, as a natural ability (something they evolved through exposure to the vortex perhaps?) - hence the Doctor knowing which points in time are fixed etc. The seer was a particularly talented Time Lord with unusual tastes in fashion.

However, there has been a lot of prophecy and it would be nice to see more of the scientific explanation options. Or better use of science in general (does not have to mean long lectures or technobabble).

If only real mad prophets could be like those in the classics...

The idea that science can explain everything that happens has been blown apart by scientists themselves. They're not all Darwinites.
Modern audiences post Buffy, post endless vampire and horror flicks and Harry Potter are far more "into" prophecy and the supernatural than were the audiences for the first rounds of the classic Dr Who. Then he was an older gentleman with superior knowledge at every turn.

The RTD resurrection of the Doctor gave a totally new twist to the man - not infallible, often open to doubt, possibly being rescued by less than admiring sidekicks - whole new ballgame. More introspection and first signs of loneliness. Never forget his subjugation when the Master first came back.

Nope, the stories have emerged from Welsh quarries and have become far more varied and spooky. Modern audiences usually like spooky;
If not, apparently there's this programme called "X-Factor" that superglues itself to all disillusioned viewers. Have never seen it myself - fortunately.

You need to check out more classic Who. I can recall off the top of my head:

Hartnell's "wanderers in the fourth dimension" speech hinting at loneliness and exile.
Troughton's speech to Victoria about his family in "Tomb of the Cybermen"

P.

However I can just see Pertwee's and T. Baker's doctors dismissing any such talk of prophecies as "poppycock" and "nonsense".

I can't believe Docs 3 or 4 falling for any such supernatural stuff.

Actually, the fourth Doctor's exact words on that subject were: "If I knew you had the power, I'd listen."

The Ood had already established a certain track record here with their DoctorDonna prediction.

So the Doctor listened.

Regards,

Cypher