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Can a registered keeper sell car if not legal owner?


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Old 04-01-2010, 17:53
photobuff22
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Long story so i won't go into all the details but i own a car (well technically finance company do) and was until recently the registered keeper.
I don't have car in my possession as i loaned it to ex who now refuses to give it back.
Police say its a civil matter and i am going back to solicitor this week. They sent out a letter to him to say he had 14 days to return it but i am not even sure the last address i have for him is still the one he is at now.
I found out today from DVLA i am no longer the registered keeper and i assume they have issued a new V5 to him.
My question is, is he legally allowed to sell the car if he has the V5?
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Old 04-01-2010, 18:06
Cruachan
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Only the owner can legally sell the car - or give approval for another to sell it on their behalf.

Having a V5 is nothing to do with ownership.

I think that you should tell the owner - the HP company - what is going on.
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Old 04-01-2010, 18:09
Rowdy
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Only the owner can legally sell the car - or give approval for another to sell it on their behalf.

Having a V5 is nothing to do with ownership.

I think that you should tell the owner - the HP company - what is going on.
Yes - cars are just the same as anything else. You can't sell something that isn't yours; that's just silly.
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Old 04-01-2010, 18:11
fi~
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also if he tried to sell the car then it would flag up on a HP check so most sane people wouldnt buy cos they could have the car taken off them if the finance wasnt cleared
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Old 04-01-2010, 18:15
CANDYANGEL
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How did he become the registered keeper of the car? wouldn't you have had to sign and send documents to the DVLA confirming this?
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Old 04-01-2010, 18:21
photobuff22
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I thought i would have had to sign something for the DVLA but apparantly not! There must be a form you can fill in if the original V5 is lost though.
Thanks for all the replies, that puts my mind a bit more at ease
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Old 04-01-2010, 18:23
photobuff22
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Does everyone do an HP check when buying a car? Don't think i have ever done one, something to definitely consider for the future!
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Old 04-01-2010, 18:30
Cruachan
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Does everyone do an HP check when buying a car? Don't think i have ever done one, something to definitely consider for the future!
If you are trading in a car the dealer would do it to make sure the deal is legal.

When buying "used" from a dealer I have received a certificate telling me the vehicle has been checked and is clear of HP.

In private sales it is up to the buyer to decide whether or not to do it.
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Old 04-01-2010, 18:41
photobuff22
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So theroretically he could sell the car privately and leave me with the finance to pay off?
I have informed the finance company of the situation but as long as they get the payments they don't care.
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Old 04-01-2010, 18:44
woodbush
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I thought i would have had to sign something for the DVLA but apparantly not! There must be a form you can fill in if the original V5 is lost though.
Thanks for all the replies, that puts my mind a bit more at ease
Someone must have notified the DVLA and forged your signature.
You should now inform the DVLA and inform the police that someone has forged your signature to change the keeper.


DVLA Change of Keeper
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Old 04-01-2010, 18:45
Cruachan
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So theroretically he could sell the car privately and leave me with the finance to pay off?
I have informed the finance company of the situation but as long as they get the payments they don't care.
It's not his car to sell - he would be acting illegally.

I find it strange that the police has washed its hands of this. If you have asked for the car back, and it has not been returned, has it not effectively been stolen?
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Old 04-01-2010, 18:49
photobuff22
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I will certainly ask them if they received a V5 with a signature on it and if so i will certainly be informing the police but you can fill out a V62 to change ownership if there is not a V5 when you buy a vehicle.
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Old 04-01-2010, 18:52
photobuff22
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I really would have thought the police would see it as having been stolen but i have spoke to three different officers and have got conflicting advice from all of them!
I plan to go back to the local station tomorrow and demand to speak to someone who knows for sure if i can legally report it as stolen.
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Old 04-01-2010, 19:11
Yosemite
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I don't have car in my possession as i loaned it to ex who now refuses to give it back.
Police say its a civil matter ...
Recovery of the vehicle is indeed a civil matter - you voluntarily loaned the vehicle to your former partner, so it cannot possibly be considered "stolen".

However, if he has notified the DVLA of a change of registered keeper and then attempts to sell the vehicle by purporting to be the legal owner, this would constitute fraud. This is of course a criminal offence, although as others have already mentioned, he might find it very difficult to do so.
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Old 04-01-2010, 19:12
Sarah04
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have you tried giving the finance company a ring and tell them your situation?

or you could stop paying for it and it gets repossessed but you will loose it for sure and mess up your credit record.

its not in your possession, someone has it WITHOUT you permission so it has to be stolen! sounds like they cant be arsed doing the job they are being paid to do IMO but then im getting political
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Old 04-01-2010, 19:12
Rowdy
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I really would have thought the police would see it as having been stolen but i have spoke to three different officers and have got conflicting advice from all of them!
I plan to go back to the local station tomorrow and demand to speak to someone who knows for sure if i can legally report it as stolen.
You'll probably find the police don't want to get involved, though it's certainly worth a punt. A far better option would be to go to the county court and sue for the car (or the money if he's sold it).
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Old 04-01-2010, 19:16
photobuff22
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Recovery of the vehicle is indeed a civil matter - you voluntarily loaned the vehicle to your former partner, so it cannot possibly be considered "stolen".

However, if he has notified the DVLA of a change of registered keeper and then attempts to sell the vehicle by purporting to be the legal owner, this would constitute fraud. This is of course a criminal offence, although as others have already mentioned, he might find it very difficult to do so.
So your saying LOANING something to someone gives them the right to keep it and its NOT classed as theft? I have written to him to say he no longer has permission to have or drive the car so he is now doing so illegally IMO. Getting the V5 in his name proves he has no intention of giving it back so why is that not theft?
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Old 04-01-2010, 19:18
photobuff22
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You'll probably find the police don't want to get involved, though it's certainly worth a punt. A far better option would be to go to the county court and sue for the car (or the money if he's sold it).
I have consulted with a solicitor rowdy and will go down this route if i have to, i was hoping for a faster solution though to get it all over and done with. I can't wait to get this moron out of my life.
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Old 04-01-2010, 19:34
Yosemite
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So your saying LOANING something to someone gives them the right to keep it and its NOT classed as theft?
He doesn't necessarily have the right to keep the item, but refusal to return it is not deemed "theft" ( a criminal offence).

Recovery of an item in circumstances such as these is a civil matter, as I said in my previous post.

Originally Posted by photobuff
I have written to him to say he no longer has permission to have or drive the car so he is now doing so illegally IMO.
This simply isn't so, no matter how much you may wish it were.

Getting the V5 in his name proves he has no intention of giving it back so why is that not theft?
He may have no intention of giving it back (although neither you nor I can be certain of this), but it still isn't theft.

I repeat (again) - it's a civil dispute which your solicitor will if necessary pursue through the County Court system.
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Old 04-01-2010, 20:47
Bedsit Bob
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I trust you still have insurance on the vehicle.

If not, and he crashes the vehicle, or it gets stolen, you will be well out of pocket.
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Old 04-01-2010, 21:05
photobuff22
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I don't have insurance on the car in my name, was in his name with me as named driver but he cancelled this one and has taken out insurance in his name only. Can't see any insurance company insuring me when i don't have the car and don't even know where is.
But you are right if he does crash it etc then i will still be liable for the finance
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Old 04-01-2010, 21:11
Bedsit Bob
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Can't see any insurance company insuring me when i don't have the car and don't even know where is.
They will insure it in your name, since you have an "insurable interest" in it.

Indeed, if you are buying it on HP (IIRC your said it was on HP), then you have a duty under the HP agreement, to make cetain the vehicle is kept comprehensively insured, until such time as the HP is paid off, and ownership transfers to yourself.
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Old 04-01-2010, 21:22
photobuff22
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What happens if i don't insure it? Can the HP company do anything?
As i am already paying the finance on a car i am not using (and a joint loan, another story) i can't really afford to pay for the insurance too.

How could they insure me when i am now not the RK and could not tell them where the car is being kept overnight or if it is being only used for social, domestic, pleasure etc?
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Old 04-01-2010, 21:29
AlphaK
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OP , did you pay for the car with proper HP finance or just with money from a personal loan ? I believe it makes a difference as another poster had a very similar situation to yours (although I think she only paid for the car and the ex was the keeper)and the opinion seemed to be she was screwed basically . Sorry not much help to you.
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Old 04-01-2010, 21:33
photobuff22
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I part exchanged a car and took the balance out with peugeot finance so i can prove that i bought the car. I was the RK until recently when he has used the original V5 to either register himself as the new RK or sold the car already, DVLA would not tell me who the new keeper is.
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