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Marco Polo
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The Brig
08-03-2011
Originally Posted by Tigger-Roo:
“Thanks Brig! I knew I could rely on you.

I am of course now trying to spot the Dalek myself, especially the half dalek.

Still enjoying this story. The chap who plays the Controller, makes a great villain, I'm enjoying his portrayal. Also the Controller would be a great Timelord name.

Loved the ending to episode 3 with the previous Doctor's displayed on the screen behind the third Doctor. I felt totally fangirlish as I squee'd when I saw them,
Spoiler
even the imposter.
”

Spoiler
Que?


Yes, the first past Doctor flashback just as the Next Doctor had the first of the 21st century ones. Of course it's a lot easier to do a flashback when there's only 2 people to show!

After 2 solid years of the Pertwee era setting its own traditions with UNIT and Earth and references to the black and white era or the police box were few and far between, season 9 starts to show a confident revitilised show begin to admit the past and accept the audiences may have memories of more than 2 years ago.

So the Daleks use a mind analysis machine (no, not the mind probe) to prove this dandy Doctor is the same man who was once in monochrome.

I sometimes wonder whenever Doctor Who has an evil Controller is a subtle in-joke/insult to the Controller of BBC1 - the one creature the Doctor must always kow tow to.

As not a Dalek fan, you may be enjoying this more as it's not really a Dalek story as the previous ones have been structured. Curiously the sets aren't suitable for the props as there's lots of raised blocks in the Controller's domain which means the Daleks can't roll far beyond their little sanctum even if they want to.

Did you hear the "Doctor, did you say Doctor?" line. One of my favourite bits.

The half Dalek will turn up by the end of episode 4. This is the first story where the Daleks have black eye pupil dots on the eye stalks for no apparant reason.

The only reason the Doctor and Jo try and escape on a very slow tricycle thing is because Jon Pertwee had seen it at a motor show and it was new on the market. Could you really see an Ogron riding it? Between filming and transmission, they were also seen in Diamonds are Forever and so weren't so much a novelty.
Demolished Man
09-03-2011
Originally Posted by The Brig:
“As not a Dalek fan, you may be enjoying this more as it's not really a Dalek story as the previous ones have been structured. Curiously the sets aren't suitable for the props as there's lots of raised blocks in the Controller's domain which means the Daleks can't roll far beyond their little sanctum even if they want to.”

Don't forget that it's been five years since the last Dalek story, and it seems that no one on the production team knows any of the old tricks, from needing flat, open sets with wide doors to how the voices work...

Originally Posted by The Brig:
“The only reason the Doctor and Jo try and escape on a very slow tricycle thing is because Jon Pertwee had seen it at a motor show and it was new on the market. Could you really see an Ogron riding it? Between filming and transmission, they were also seen in Diamonds are Forever and so weren't so much a novelty.”

It's not the last time you'll see a guard type character realising that he's going to have to develop a special run that's actually slower than walking pace, either - the best example is in 'The Sunmakers'.
chuffnobbler
09-03-2011
The "running after the go-kart" scenes in Sunmakers are painful!

I hadn't thought that voices, etc, would have been affected by 5yrs of no Daleks. What a perfectly obvious thing to say, but something I'd never considered before!

Aubrey Woods is excellent as the Controller. He's a hoot in a Blake's Seven (with John Leeson as his underling), and often crops up in quirky, unusual roles. He's capable of giving a very camp, very "big" performance, and Day of the Daleks is unusually restrained.
Demolished Man
09-03-2011
Originally Posted by chuffnobbler:
“I hadn't thought that voices, etc, would have been affected by 5yrs of no Daleks. What a perfectly obvious thing to say, but something I'd never considered before!”

I've only just realised that this is the first 'complete' Dalek story since 'The Chase', and we discussed that one way back on page 7!
The Brig
09-03-2011
Originally Posted by chuffnobbler:
“The "running after the go-kart" scenes in Sunmakers are painful!

I hadn't thought that voices, etc, would have been affected by 5yrs of no Daleks. What a perfectly obvious thing to say, but something I'd never considered before!

Aubrey Woods is excellent as the Controller. He's a hoot in a Blake's Seven (with John Leeson as his underling), and often crops up in quirky, unusual roles. He's capable of giving a very camp, very "big" performance, and Day of the Daleks is unusually restrained.”

And in both stories Aubrey Woods has slightly silver make up (or not so slightly).

The old story about the Dalek voices was that no one ever wrote down the ring modulator setting so it varied each story. Nick Briggs these days probably knows every setting for every variation. The oddest variations are Day and Dalek Invasion of Earth (the latter are very high pitched).
Tigger-Roo
09-03-2011
Well that's the end of that one then.

I rather enjoyed it, as a dalek story. There wasn't much dalekness in it, which was good.

I'm still rather fond of the Controller as a character and it was a shame he died in the end. I also liked the idea that it was a temporal paradox and that the guerillas actually went back and created their own history.

So all in all quite good. Not outstanding, but okay.

Got the Peladon Monster thingy next.
The Brig
09-03-2011
Originally Posted by Tigger-Roo:
“Well that's the end of that one then.

I rather enjoyed it, as a dalek story. There wasn't much dalekness in it, which was good.

I'm still rather fond of the Controller as a character and it was a shame he died in the end. I also liked the idea that it was a temporal paradox and that the guerillas actually went back and created their own history.

So all in all quite good. Not outstanding, but okay.

Got the Peladon Monster thingy next. ”

Don't get too excited, only Curse of Peladon, you have to wait 2 years for Monster of Peladon .

How the guerillas started that paradox is, er, a paradox. The Blinovitch Limitation Effect was mentioned here for the first time, it'll get another reference in around a decade.

The half Dalek was the blown up Dalek skirt. Rather than using a stunt prop, they smashed up a perfectly good genuine prop bottom half. The irony is that for the next big Dalek appearance they build 8 more Dalek props and they could have saved money on half a Dalek... I'm obsessed as you can tell.

I like the fact that the UNIT soldiers salute the Doctor when he enters the house and that the Brig is still using his walkie talkie from the Troughton era.

I don't like the fact that as they only had 3 Daleks, they paint one gold so it makes it really obvious. They learn from that next time. The upcoming DVD will show lots of Daleks attacking the house (along with the new voices).

Brigadier has a great line in diplomacy, "Now be quiet sir!"
Tigger-Roo
09-03-2011
Originally Posted by The Brig:
“Don't get too excited, only Curse of Peladon, you have to wait 2 years for Monster of Peladon .

How the guerillas started that paradox is, er, a paradox. The Blinovitch Limitation Effect was mentioned here for the first time, it'll get another reference in around a decade.

The half Dalek was the blown up Dalek skirt. Rather than using a stunt prop, they smashed up a perfectly good genuine prop bottom half. The irony is that for the next big Dalek appearance they build 8 more Dalek props and they could have saved money on half a Dalek... I'm obsessed as you can tell.

I like the fact that the UNIT soldiers salute the Doctor when he enters the house and that the Brig is still using his walkie talkie from the Troughton era.

I don't like the fact that as they only had 3 Daleks, they paint one gold so it makes it really obvious. They learn from that next time. The upcoming DVD will show lots of Daleks attacking the house (along with the new voices).

Brigadier has a great line in diplomacy, "Now be quiet sir!"”

So I take it Monsters are better than Curses.

So that was the half a dalek. And I didn't even twig. I was looking for a dalek cut in half lengthways, backed up against a wall or something. I feel acutely disappointed now.

I thought the Brig did a great cop out actually passing the buck to Yate to get Styles out.
The Brig
09-03-2011
Originally Posted by Tigger-Roo:
“So I take it Monsters are better than Curses.

So that was the half a dalek. And I didn't even twig. I was looking for a dalek cut in half lengthways, backed up against a wall or something. I feel acutely disappointed now.

I thought the Brig did a great cop out actually passing the buck to Yate to get Styles out. ”

Well Curse of Peladon (1972) is usually seen as better than the 1974 sequel Monster of Peladon. Monster is also 2 episodes longer whereas Curse is a nice sensible 4 parts.

Back in the Day - the Daleks have the strategic sense to attack the house from the rear and then let all the delegates escape from the front in their cars. Whoops.
Demolished Man
10-03-2011
Originally Posted by The Brig:
“The half Dalek was the blown up Dalek skirt. Rather than using a stunt prop, they smashed up a perfectly good genuine prop bottom half. The irony is that for the next big Dalek appearance they build 8 more Dalek props and they could have saved money on half a Dalek... I'm obsessed as you can tell.”

Heh - it's telling that even though they build eight new Daleks for 'Planet of the Daleks', the new ones are of such poor quality that they're back down to four props by 'Death to the Daleks', about a year afterward.

I always thought that grotty Dalek in 'The Five Doctors' was just an old one that they didn't mind blowing up, but it turns out that it was actually the best one they had!
CoalHillJanitor
10-03-2011
Originally Posted by The Brig:
“
Back in the Day - the Daleks have the strategic sense to attack the house from the rear and then let all the delegates escape from the front in their cars. Whoops.”

They must have an innate sense of fair play to let both sides have their travel units.
Tigger-Roo
10-03-2011
The Curse of Peladon

Woohoo, we've started and the Tardis has travelled. How fabulous to see this, and then horrible to see it fall over the edge of the cliff.

I really do like this story so far. Jo is dating Mike Yates, no less. Oh I do like that idea. And she looks absolutely gorgeous all done up. Peladon the new King, one of his confidants already killed. A monster that we are unable to identify yet. A curse that we know cannot be real. And then we have Ice Warrior, in colour! OMG! And princess Josephine of the Tardis, is just brilliant. I did laugh at Alpha Centuri when I first saw him? her? I'd heard the name but never ever thought it would look...and sound...like it did. Bloody hilarious. But even now I am think how cute it is.

This has got to be my favourite story since Terror of the Autons. I hope it continues to be this good.
The Brig
10-03-2011
Originally Posted by Tigger-Roo:
“The Curse of Peladon

Woohoo, we've started and the Tardis has travelled. How fabulous to see this, and then horrible to see it fall over the edge of the cliff.

I really do like this story so far. Jo is dating Mike Yates, no less. Oh I do like that idea. And she looks absolutely gorgeous all done up. Peladon the new King, one of his confidants already killed. A monster that we are unable to identify yet. A curse that we know cannot be real. And then we have Ice Warrior, in colour! OMG! And princess Josephine of the Tardis, is just brilliant. I did laugh at Alpha Centuri when I first saw him? her? I'd heard the name but never ever thought it would look...and sound...like it did. Bloody hilarious. But even now I am think how cute it is.

This has got to be my favourite story since Terror of the Autons. I hope it continues to be this good.”

I hope for the model version of Alpha Centauri even though it's a p*ick in a cloak!

Lovely TARDIS model work at the start, last use of the TARDIS photocopy walls and the solid walls will have washing up bowls stuck on them next time round. It's said Pertwee was a bit distracted in the TARDIS scene as when he looked under the console, a member of the crew had put a topless woman picture there.

King Peladon is Patrick Troughton's son David who had been Private Moor in War Games for an episode. He'll be back with less hair or purple in Midnight.

Katy Manning had a big crush on David Troughton but never said anything. Years later she found out David may have reciprocated if he had known. David Troughton's flat mate at the time was a certain Colin Baker. Wonder what happened to him?

But yes, Ice Warriors in colour and probably THE costume now on display in London. The Ice Warrior and the Lord are both actors who were in Seeds of Death - Sonny Caldinez and Alan Bennion. Caldinez had also been Kemel back in Evil of the Daleks.

Arcturus is operated by erstwhile Dalek operator Murphy Grumbar. Inside Alpha Centauri is Stuart Fell who has already done stunts in Claws of Axos and will be another (quite short) Sea Devil in the next story.

Another new series link - inside the furry Aggador is Nick Hobbs who was the pensioner who threw the ponytailed Rory onto the ground in Amy's Choice.

Trivia trivia - the Doctor has a new velvet jacket with a breast pocket and 3 buttons (instead of 2 buttons on the coat introduced in Terror of the Autons). He also has a new check cloak that looks like a travel rug and a first go at a waistcoat look. He won't try that again for almost 2 years.

New Visual Effects assistant Mat Irvine's first job was making the model TARDIS lamp flash. These days he's better known as custodian and operator of K.9 when needed in Sarah Jane Adventures.

The cliffface scenes were done on film at Ealing studios and as legend goes, was the last vertical such set built during the BBC's time there. In future, in Spiderman style, such sets would be laid on the ground with the camera tilted sideways.

Next episode - Jo's shoes magically change at one point.
Tigger-Roo
10-03-2011
Originally Posted by The Brig:
“I hope for the model version of Alpha Centauri even though it's a p*ick in a cloak!

Lovely TARDIS model work at the start, last use of the TARDIS photocopy walls and the solid walls will have washing up bowls stuck on them next time round. It's said Pertwee was a bit distracted in the TARDIS scene as when he looked under the console, a member of the crew had put a topless woman picture there.

King Peladon is Patrick Troughton's son David who had been Private Moor in War Games for an episode. He'll be back with less hair or purple in Midnight.

Katy Manning had a big crush on David Troughton but never said anything. Years later she found out David may have reciprocated if he had known. David Troughton's flat mate at the time was a certain Colin Baker. Wonder what happened to him?

But yes, Ice Warriors in colour and probably THE costume now on display in London. The Ice Warrior and the Lord are both actors who were in Seeds of Death - Sonny Caldinez and Alan Bennion. Caldinez had also been Kemel back in Evil of the Daleks.

Arcturus is operated by erstwhile Dalek operator Murphy Grumbar. Inside Alpha Centauri is Stuart Fell who has already done stunts in Claws of Axos and will be another (quite short) Sea Devil in the next story.

Another new series link - inside the furry Aggador is Nick Hobbs who was the pensioner who threw the ponytailed Rory onto the ground in Amy's Choice.

Trivia trivia - the Doctor has a new velvet jacket with a breast pocket and 3 buttons (instead of 2 buttons on the coat introduced in Terror of the Autons). He also has a new check cloak that looks like a travel rug and a first go at a waistcoat look. He won't try that again for almost 2 years.

New Visual Effects assistant Mat Irvine's first job was making the model TARDIS lamp flash. These days he's better known as custodian and operator of K.9 when needed in Sarah Jane Adventures.

The cliffface scenes were done on film at Ealing studios and as legend goes, was the last vertical such set built during the BBC's time there. In future, in Spiderman style, such sets would be laid on the ground with the camera tilted sideways.

Next episode - Jo's shoes magically change at one point.”

Oh yes I meant to comment about the Doctor's change of costume. I rather like it, it looks very fetching on him.

I must ask, because it's bugging me. The Tardis is meant to be a sentient being. Isn't the heart of the Tardis meant to be in the centre console. And this is where the Time Vortex is as shown in the Parting of the Ways. So in removing the console is this not in effect ripping the heart out of the Tardis and why does the Vortex not sort of escape?
The Brig
10-03-2011
Originally Posted by Tigger-Roo:
“Oh yes I meant to comment about the Doctor's change of costume. I rather like it, it looks very fetching on him.

I must ask, because it's bugging me. The Tardis is meant to be a sentient being. Isn't the heart of the Tardis meant to be in the centre console. And this is where the Time Vortex is as shown in the Parting of the Ways. So in removing the console is this not in effect ripping the heart out of the Tardis and why does the Vortex not sort of escape?”

Oooh! You're getting to the hardcore stuff now aren't you??

Inside the Spaceship aka Edge of Destruction in 1964 tallies nicely with Boom Town in 2005 but everything in between doesn't fit so easily.

I think the fact remains the power source is under the console but how it relates to the time rotor and the console is a question. My fudge is that in the old days the heart of the TARDIS is under the console and the console can be taken out and the heart is below and presumably can be capped and not escape. By the new series, the console is floor to ceiling and less 'portable' and so just as the floor is on raised levels, the power source rises up and is embedded into the actual console.

The actual console seems to be able to drained down and disconnected with only a battery in its base to temporarily hold power. eg Inferno

The Three Doctors and The Deadly Assassin and then the TV Movie throws further spanners into the power source debate so I'll continue this in a season's time.
Tigger-Roo
10-03-2011
Originally Posted by The Brig:
“Oooh! You're getting to the hardcore stuff now aren't you??

Inside the Spaceship aka Edge of Destruction in 1964 tallies nicely with Boom Town in 2005 but everything in between doesn't fit so easily.

I think the fact remains the power source is under the console but how it relates to the time rotor and the console is a question. My fudge is that in the old days the heart of the TARDIS is under the console and the console can be taken out and the heart is below and presumably can be capped and not escape. By the new series, the console is floor to ceiling and less 'portable' and so just as the floor is on raised levels, the power source rises up and is embedded into the actual console.

The actual console seems to be able to drained down and disconnected with only a battery in its base to temporarily hold power. eg Inferno

The Three Doctors and The Deadly Assassin and then the TV Movie throws further spanners into the power source debate so I'll continue this in a season's time. ”

Ahh, I'm happy to accept that explanation Brig. It was niggling away at me, but that seems to work.
Solid60
11-03-2011
While Tigger is on The Curse Of Peladon I'd just like to mention that, for me, it's Katy Manning's best performance - from start to finish. Excellent stuff.


That is all.
Tigger-Roo
11-03-2011
Originally Posted by Solid60:
“While Tigger is on The Curse Of Peladon I'd just like to mention that, for me, it's Katy Manning's best performance - from start to finish. Excellent stuff.


That is all.”

I have to agree with that. Watched episode 2 today and she has been amazing.

I'm also now actually enjoying Pertwee's Doctor, I can finally feel his connection to Jo. All is good.
The Brig
11-03-2011
The Ice Warriors are developing a depth, Peladon has an unhealthy interest in Earth Princesses and the Doctor has been stitched up by the High Priest.

Only one bed in the Ice Warriors room - it's either a close relationship or Ssorg stays on guard a lot.

I said all through the last season that Pertwee was at his most grumpy that year - maybe a combination of Earth exile, the Master turning up and Liz leaving. He must have liked Liz - the car Bessie is another variation on Elizabeth...

By now though he's been off Earth twice, his friendship with Jo is a lot closer and he gets on a lot better with the Brig so he's warmer as a person.

Jo is also good at pricking his pomposity - there's a lovely dig at the carelessness of the pilot by Jo to the King in episode 1.
Tigger-Roo
12-03-2011
Originally Posted by The Brig:
“The Ice Warriors are developing a depth, Peladon has an unhealthy interest in Earth Princesses and the Doctor has been stitched up by the High Priest.

Only one bed in the Ice Warriors room - it's either a close relationship or Ssorg stays on guard a lot.

I said all through the last season that Pertwee was at his most grumpy that year - maybe a combination of Earth exile, the Master turning up and Liz leaving. He must have liked Liz - the car Bessie is another variation on Elizabeth...

By now though he's been off Earth twice, his friendship with Jo is a lot closer and he gets on a lot better with the Brig so he's warmer as a person.

Jo is also good at pricking his pomposity - there's a lovely dig at the carelessness of the pilot by Jo to the King in episode 1.”

Yes I liked her dig at the Doctor in the first episode.

So are the Ice Warriors now a peaceful race? It looked quite believable, but I'm just not quite sure.
Demolished Man
12-03-2011
The Curse of Peladon was repeated in 1982, so it's one with a certain degree of nostalgia attached to it* - it's also the first one I'd seen that I'd read the book of first.

I was expecting Aggedor to be taller...

*Also, I saw episode 1 at my grandparents house aged 7, so it's become inextricably connected to the clammy feel of their horrible brown leatherette sofa against my legs - which is just odd, frankly.
Demolished Man
12-03-2011
Originally Posted by The Brig:
“The Ice Warriors are developing a depth, Peladon has an unhealthy interest in Earth Princesses and the Doctor has been stitched up by the High Priest.”

Huh, Peladon's obviously just after access to Jo's wardrobe, judging by his mini-skirt and thigh boot attire...
Tigger-Roo
12-03-2011
Originally Posted by Demolished Man:
“The Curse of Peladon was repeated in 1982, so it's one with a certain degree of nostalgia attached to it* - it's also the first one I'd seen that I'd read the book of first.

I was expecting Aggedor to be taller...

*Also, I saw episode 1 at my grandparents house aged 7, so it's become inextricably connected to the clammy feel of their horrible brown leatherette sofa against my legs - which is just odd, frankly.”

Ahh, I love hearing peoples memories like this. I think they are briliant.
Tigger-Roo
12-03-2011
Episode 3

Okay have some questions this time.

Is this the first proper sonic screwdriver? It looked very much like a sonic screwdriver and I've not seen either of the previous Doctor's use one that well defined.

And since when has the Doctor been into hand to hand combat? That just doesn't ring true to me. Okay, he refused to kill the man, but I thought he abhorred violence.

And oh and aroon, aroon, aroon, aroon. I hope you are all under my spell now. It was a nice touch I really enjoyed that scene with Agador.

I believe the Ice Warriors now. Glad they are the good fellows. Which really has thrown their original concept on its head.

And then there's Arctourus. What is he up too. Right dodgy geezer if you ask me.

I am still thinking this is going to be a favourite of mine from the Pertwee era. It's a great story. And Peladon has great legs by the way.
The Brig
12-03-2011
Originally Posted by Tigger-Roo:
“Episode 3

Okay have some questions this time.

Is this the first proper sonic screwdriver? It looked very much like a sonic screwdriver and I've not seen either of the previous Doctor's use one that well defined.

And since when has the Doctor been into hand to hand combat? That just doesn't ring true to me. Okay, he refused to kill the man, but I thought he abhorred violence.

And oh and aroon, aroon, aroon, aroon. I hope you are all under my spell now. It was a nice touch I really enjoyed that scene with Agador.

I believe the Ice Warriors now. Glad they are the good fellows. Which really has thrown their original concept on its head.

And then there's Arctourus. What is he up too. Right dodgy geezer if you ask me.

I am still thinking this is going to be a favourite of mine from the Pertwee era. It's a great story. And Peladon has great legs by the way. ”

It isn't the sonic screwdriver although some inaccurate sources have claimed it in the past. The sonic is next seen in The Sea Devils and from that point becomes a lot more regular in use.

The third Doctor started on Venusian karate in season 7 but he does love a proper fight - but always sparing his opponent. See it as the Doctor's mid life crisis. The Doctor doesn't like to use violence but often does. Later tonight I'll develop this point. Anyway, remember Troughton sent the entire Ice Warrior fleet into the sun. Lucky Izlyr doesn't know it's the same man!

Yep, the Ice Warriors are now good guys and ought to come back in the new series as an interesting race. You'll find out details on Arcturus about 2 minutes into episode 4!
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