I support Zainab 100% and in her right to say what she feels. Call me what you will, I am sure I will have been called worse things.

I supportED Zainab 100% in her right to hold the views she does, although they are not my own, and her right to express them.

I think the writers have mis-stepped in now just making her plain b*tchy and vindictive. It waters down her deeply-held religious convictions and makes them look like mere nastiness. A wrong twist in the s/l, imho.

It is all to do with deep rooted religion, culture and to do with the effects of how it would look etc etc. Zainab isn't an out an out homophobe. She did after a short time accept Christian as a homosexual when he was just a homosexual going about his business, not affecting her life. Therefore, she is not a homosexual hater. SHe obviously doesn't agree with it, doesn't understand it, wouldn't accept it in her own family, but before the whole Syed thing was discovered, didn't actually hate Christian for being gay. Sure she'd make the odd snide remark out of embarrassment (could you look a little less.......gay?) and her worring what people think, but she did have a much more lie and let attitude to it all when it was not affecting her family.

yes, she's cool too bad she's also an homophobe

I agree with that. Spot on. She has played the part very well and hopefully the producers dont change her views.

Okay this is my opinion...

I'm a huge supporter of Christian and Syed. Love them, want them together and as an individual I have nothing negative to say about homosexuality. The way I see it, you don't chose who you love.

Though I don't hate Zainab, yet. I disagree with the people who say she's completely homophobic, though I can understand why people draw that conclusion. Personally, I'm not using Zainabs religion as an 'excuse' but let's not pretend that it's not a huge factor either. She has been bought up with strong religious values and how homosexuality isn't acceptable in Islam. That's been imbedded within her before she moved to England. It's clear from her attitude towards Christian, before she learned of his affair with her son, that she liked him and held no hostility towards him being gay. She showed some ignorance "they do those horrible homosexual things in public toilets and such" and "Can you dress a little less.... gay" but overall, she had nothing against him personally. She even showed to be bothered when there seemed to be lack of compassion on Syed's part when Christian was beaten up. Her exact words to Ian was "Yes I know Christian is a homosexual and we have to make allowances for that but for Syed to remain completely indifferent on the face of human suffering... that is NOT how I bought him up". Earlier she was talking about how Christian was possibly 'gay bashed' and how ‘awful’ it was. AtBushra’s party in June, after Christian outed himself as gay, she said to him ‘As far as I’m concerned you can live your life however you please…just not in my faith’. She wasn’t angry that he spoke about being gay, she was angry that he spoke about it to people of her culture. In her eyes, it was done in poor taste (though in my eyes it wasn’t).

For me, it shows that Zainab is no gay rights activist but she's not all out homophobe either. If she had a real problem with Christians sexuality, she would have never worked with him. All those derogatory comments she made towards Christian on the day of Syed’s wedding was a result of her thinking Christian was infatuated with her son and her fear as a Muslim mother that it would ruin her families reputation. I’m certainly not excusing what she said. Her comments were totally out of line and like I said, I can understand why some people would interpret that as homophobic. In the context of that scene, maybe it was but over all as a character I can’t say Zainab is homophobic. Her values on homosexuality are driven from religion, not her as an individual.

For the record, I don’t agree with her emotionally blackmailing her son to get married or her views on homosexuality, religious or not. Though it’s all very realistically done and while I can’t agree with her comments, I can somehow emphathise. It’s clear that she is a very desperate woman now and she’s trying to convince herself that her son isn’t gay and what she did was truely for the best. In typical fashion though, it’ll all come back to bite her.

Just my two pence worth.

Good post.

Let me just preface what I am going to say. Since the wedding episode I have been quite enjoying this storyline. The acting has been top notch, all the characters have been utterly believable and realistic in theirs roles. I actually like the way they are writing the character of Zainab at the moment because it's the type of character that a lot of the time she is likable, but underneath, like many people, she has some not very attractive layers to her personality. This is all good. I am not complaining about the storyline at all here. However, I am going to complain about some of the reactions that I have read on this forum.

Just because everyone has the right to state their views, just because you can understand where Zainab is coming from (in terms of the religious aspect of her beliefs), just because she is a strong character who is a good representation of a Muslim, does not mean we can whitewash away the things that she is saying. She is saying homophobic things plain and simple. At the end of the day, we are all living in 21st Century Britain now. It is getting to the point when we simply cannot let homophobic people off the hook just because of their religion or their culture. If gay people went around spouting racist or religious abuse towards Muslims, they wouldn't get away with it. So it works both ways. It's ok to have an opinion on something, but it is not ok to treat people without any respect or dignity. The words that Zainab has been using against Christian like 'perverse', are not acceptable and do not need to be said. She has a right to say her opinion, but she shouldn't say offensive words at the same time she is stating her point of view.

Heck, most of the time I like her. She's funny, she loves, works hard and stands up for her family. I wouldn't mind having her as a friend, regardless of her beliefs. I can say this because I disagree a lot of the time with my friends, but we don't get nasty towards each other and it doesn't mean we don't have to be friends because of it. But it's just the way she goes about things sometimes which are quite plainly wrong. And this shouldn't be covered up just because a lot of the time she is a strong character who can be considered 'cool' or whatever.

The other thing that makes me wound up more about some of the comments, is that Zainab actually has a son in all of this who is gay. She stood there in that room before the wedding and saw how much pain her son was in when he admitted that fact to her. What kind of mother, regardless of her religious beliefs, couldn't bring herself to hug her son when he was reaching out to her? What kind of mother couldn't even say some kind words to her son after the guts it must have taken for him to admit something like that to a mother who, because of her culture and religious beliefs, would never accept that part of him? Knowing her religion and beliefs the way she does, didn't she realise everything that Syed has been going through since he was a teenager, being a Muslim and all? Even though I wouldn't want the writers to change any aspect of what has been shown so far, I think it is completely unacceptable in the light of what has happened to just simply make excuses for her behaviour and blame it on her religion and culture. Especially when she doesn't strike me as a cold mother in any other aspect of her children's lives. Because that's what it boils down to, Zainab, as a person and a mother, and the choices she makes, irrespective of anything else.

As far as i can see Zee has said everything that her character has been required to say, if she didnt say all this then i am left wondering why she isnt saying in all this, coz its the Zee we know and we know how she feels about homosexuality esp in her religion and how shattered she is of what happened on the wedding day, (the wedding was gonna go ahead if Zee hadnt found out or not coz Syed wouldnt had the guts to call if off or do something about it)

I am not saying she totally hates gay coz if that was the case, then she would have refused to work and enjoy Christian's company before in the business etc

well i dont view it like that...
now for the record. i am NOT a homophobe and to be honest i think its awful to hear the things shes said even if it is fictional.

BUT... the way i see it. Zainab isnt a plain ole homophobe. as previous posters have said it isnt black and white...
she, as a muslim, believes her son is condemning himself by being truthful to his sexuality. she has to parry her sons happiness with her religious beliefs - which in this case means she believes she is saving his soul so to speak. in her head she isnt doing it out of some biggotted opinion; its for her sons sake.

well thats the way i see it anyway... and personally thats why i find it so interesting. because it isnt straightforward.

I don't even think it's entirely down to her religion, but the culture on a whole and age, I know there are plenty of non muslim asians that would say similar lines in real life from that era.

I think Zainab will eventually come around to the idea of Syed & christian...she loves Syed too much.

Firstly to set the background to my comment

Coming from a practising Muslim back ground I understand the concept of being gay is not our way of life.. the concept that people adhere to... I respect there views as a choice for a life style for themselves... I personally believe in aspects of grey in the concept of love v lust but thats my personal view point.

I have people around me who I love dearly who believe that according to Islam living an active gay life style is a sin in Islam. That's there prerogative and choice as long as it doesn't hurt some one else. (we all discuss our deferring view and have had discussion with them and our mutual gay friends, each understanding and accepting each others views on the topic both from a emotional and intellectual perspective ) I mean in life we all have views on what we find acceptable .. an atheists sees religion as not there way of life .... many vegetarians see meat eating as not there way off life ... etc etc

But what I will not support nor will anyone of my friends both for and against a gay life style or would think is anything but cool is homophobia... calling someone else a pervert, trying to ruin Janes marriage, forcing your son to get married ... out of some irrational fear that he may actually decide that a life style you don't agree with isnt islamic... its a human reaction and one which is driven by fear ... to hurt someone before they hurt you even when there not out to hurt you

Jane and Christian did not coerce syed into "turning gay" .. marrying Amira.... Zainab's reaction though expected is not right and definitely not cool

I am not saying that Zainab should have been all accepting and said go my son be happy with Christian and forget the wedding ... that would have been untrue to her character (and actually ignorant of us as to her beliefs) ... her belief that the life style her son feels drawn to is not something she agrees with. But she should have handled it with a level of maturity ... and discussion and not through childish threats and destructive words and yes to a extent fear.


But I agree with Katrina K post re zainab.. the character is complex and its not simple to call her homophobic and have done with it. There's many parts of zainabs character i adore and respect... but there's a big part of her i want to strangle

maria01 - top post!

I've encountered it as well. One of my best mates in work asked to be moved after he found out I was gay.

Its all down to religion.

Excellent post.

That's terrible.
With respect, that's not the fault of religion, that's the fault of a scudsy personality. What was he worried about? That he would catch the gay?

Nope. It was his religion.He quoted the Koran at me. Alot of it was his socialisation but that little book he worships structured alot of his prejudices.

Its not just muslims gays get crap off - its Christians too.

Why does religion make prejudices alright? There is no evidence of god - its all a delusion. They are basing their life on a medieval set of thinking. The whole thing is a house of cards.

Thats why I cant stand Zainab in this - her religon doesnt really exist.

There's me nodding my head, agreeing and smiling until I get to the bits in bold.

Sorry but that's a bit harsh. I'm not religious either, but to say that people who have faith are "delusional" and "medieval" also to say their religion doesn't exist. Yes it does, to them. It exists very much to them and is a huge basis on how they run their lives.

Now I do have to say this people, it's not religion that is bad, it's how people choose to use their religion. See Christians dating back centuries, see muslims etc. Their faith alone is not bad and actually preaches some good values, ie thou shalt not judge, treat thy neighbour, blah blah blah, but for some reason these aspects get lost in the rooting to find a meaning aspect.

Let's face it, for all we non religious types out there, there could very well be a god and maybe we're the delusional ones. Perhaps to the religious types claiming homosexuality is wrong "because it says so in the texts" maybe god sat up on his cloud one day thinking: 'wow this planet is getting hugely overpopulated, let's have some people fall in love with their own gender to put a stop to this constant need for procreation'

Of course he forgot about his gentle followers, who then proclaimed it was sinful, therefore homosexuals started marrying women and still procreating, leaving god sitting on his cloud shouting in frustration 'what the hell are you doing! I've given you the damn apple now chew!'

I jest of course, but it could very well be. You never know.
Hmmmm, hope people can make sense of this message. Anyhow, my main point is, it is not nice to ridicule people for believing and claim their believes are delusional, just because you don't agree with them or understand them. This is the same treatment religious types give to homosexuals, so don't lower yourself to the standards.

Re Katrina and Maria's posts, excellent and agreed

Why so? Because we have no proof of the validity of Religion, we also can not explain creation our self, so they are no more delusional than those that say Religion is not real.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with believing in a higher power, it's only when that power takes full control over you, and you can not think for yourself.

--

EDIT: Hmm... beat to it with a much better post, sigh!

I was about to say the same about yours

short and to the point, rather than long winded and rather rambly

Anyone who's homophobic is cool in my book

Loving your work

Back at religion:

I am a committed Christian. I am not a homophobe. Nor are millions of other Christians.
Many millions of Christians are homophobes.
Many millions of Christians are not homophobes but believe homosexuality is wrong.

What can be extrapolated by a certain reading of Christian texts is that homosexuality is wrong. I don't agree with that extrapolation, and have posted on more than one occasion why it is a misunderstanding but no-one's given me a debate on that.

What cannot be extrapolated by any readings of Christian texts is that you should behave with contempt towards your friends. I should be very much surprised if any readings of the Muslim texts say you should behave with contempt towards your friends either.

Asking to be moved from working next to someone because they're gay is nothing to do with religion but with the individual's prejudices and apparent inability to behave like a civilized human being.

I'd give you a debate but I'm a non religious person who has myself tried to point out why you can't take every single passage in the bible/Qu'rah verbatum. No one ever listens though

I've said the same thing, religion states it's the big chiefs job to judge not us mere mortals, yet somehow this conveniently gets forgotten in the "says in the bible being gay is a sin" rampage