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LivingTV ends on Vision tomorrow!


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Old 12-01-2010, 15:04
freeview_nut
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Only came across this last night but LivingTV ends as a Channel On Demand tomorrow. Apart from Most Haunted, i didn't really watch much else, however, surely losing content isn't what BT should be doing?!?!

It does say in the coming months they will be doing something regarding Living shows... does this mean we may soon get 'live' channels??!!

Just a thought...
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Old 12-01-2010, 15:30
jam2000
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Only came across this last night but LivingTV ends as a Channel On Demand tomorrow. Apart from Most Haunted, i didn't really watch much else, however, surely losing content isn't what BT should be doing?!?!

It does say in the coming months they will be doing something regarding Living shows... does this mean we may soon get 'live' channels??!!

Just a thought...
Where does it mention this?
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Old 12-01-2010, 18:12
paulbeattie87
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Where does it mention this?
On Demand>TV>Channels On Demand> "Living - Available until 13 January"
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Old 12-01-2010, 18:47
stuntmaster
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well spotted!

yes it does seem odd,


my thoughts on this:


1. could be removed to make room for more HD
2. could be turning into a live channel
3. could be coming under a different label I.E paramount turned into CBS
4. Living themselves could want to be withdrawn from the platform.

it is odd.

Roll on BT is failing threads....
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Old 12-01-2010, 18:57
Matterhorn
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well spotted!

yes it does seem odd,


my thoughts on this:


1. could be removed to make room for more HD
2. could be turning into a live channel
3. could be coming under a different label I.E paramount turned into CBS
4. Living themselves could want to be withdrawn from the platform.

it is odd.

Roll on BT is failing threads....

erm..

BT is failing...?
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Old 12-01-2010, 19:37
hanssolo
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4. Living themselves could want to be withdrawn from the platform.
Living is run by Virgin media television whose aim was to make sure their stations are on as many platforms as possible.

BT Vision is being heavily pushed, so BT will not want to lose content!
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Old 13-01-2010, 12:49
jam2000
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Any news on if this will be replaced or extended?
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Old 13-01-2010, 13:20
freeview_nut
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Although only a guess (and a hopeful one at that!), i think the launch of sky player may have helped to push along BT's plans of streaming tv channels.

The technology is there, i don't see why they can't start doing it with channels such as living, g.o.l.d, etc.

I think Vision is of too much importance for BT to let it fall behind, which it unfortunately will without content to match its competiors. (Don't forget, Sky are launching full vod to all HD boxes this year to match Virgin and BT.)

Also, they must be planning on doing live channels soon as they announced a while back that they fully intend to offer the whole sky sports package for the 2010/11 season. They don't have streams over dtt to use so must mean streaming channels!?!
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Old 13-01-2010, 14:05
lowebb
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I think Vision is of too much importance for BT to let it fall behind, which it unfortunately will without content to match its competiors. (Don't forget, Sky are launching full vod to all HD boxes this year to match Virgin and BT.)

You got a quote for that? This was talked about as far back as 2008 and I havent seen a direct quote from Sky saying as much.

Also from using Sky player on computer I cannot see any functionality will allows watching a full series of a show one after another. It only shows stuff which has been on Sky recently. (Which is 1 thing I really like about BT Vision)
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Old 13-01-2010, 14:23
paulbeattie87
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Sky can't launch VoD to their boxes because there would be no QoS available for them. BT have demonstrated you need to have everything with them for BT Wholesale's QoS to work.
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Old 13-01-2010, 15:03
stuntmaster
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erm..

BT is failing...?
I knew you'd say that

Actually sky did wan't to launch on Fetch TV, maybe in order to get QOS, they've decided to go with BT?

Either way it's space freed up, for something BT want to do.
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Old 13-01-2010, 15:07
hanssolo
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Sky can't launch VoD to their boxes because there would be no QoS available for them. BT have demonstrated you need to have everything with them for BT Wholesale's QoS to work.
Sky could enable QoS on it's LLU broadband system and give another reason to move to it's broadband offering,
the Sky player IPTV package now includes live streams of UKTVs Gold and Eden, YKTV is part owned by VM and BBC!
Sky player works on a PC and Xbox so should be able to work on a Sky box with an ethernet port for a VoD service!
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Old 13-01-2010, 16:13
freeview_nut
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You got a quote for that? This was talked about as far back as 2008 and I havent seen a direct quote from Sky saying as much.

Also from using Sky player on computer I cannot see any functionality will allows watching a full series of a show one after another. It only shows stuff which has been on Sky recently. (Which is 1 thing I really like about BT Vision)
Sky's release as mentioned here...

http://www.techradar.com/news/televi...in-2010-621386
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Old 13-01-2010, 16:17
freeview_nut
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Sky can't launch VoD to their boxes because there would be no QoS available for them. BT have demonstrated you need to have everything with them for BT Wholesale's QoS to work.
they don't necessarily have to use qos... sky player doesnt, all they perhaps need to advise sky viewers in their t&c's is that they'll need at least 2mb/s plus to be aware of data usage, however if with sky broadband they may not include the usage?!

sky are currently happy to take a premium movie and sports subscription from customers every month with no guarantee that the service could get interuppted by drops in broadband speeds... they are obviously not that worried about it or care enough?!?
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Old 13-01-2010, 16:27
paulbeattie87
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Sky could use QoS on their LLU network but that will lead to disgruntled customers in areas where they don't have an LLU network. Like the free broadband customers in non LLU areas pay for Sky broadband in their subscription but don't get it unless they pay for a second time.

As for QoS. Without it streams would be of a poorer quality, susceptible to congestion at exchanges and the core network. You could easily find at peak times the stream stuttering or failing to play.
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Old 13-01-2010, 16:47
stuntmaster
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Sky could use QoS on their LLU network but that will lead to disgruntled customers in areas where they don't have an LLU network. Like the free broadband customers in non LLU areas pay for Sky broadband in their subscription but don't get it unless they pay for a second time.

As for QoS. Without it streams would be of a poorer quality, susceptible to congestion at exchanges and the core network. You could easily find at peak times the stream stuttering or failing to play.
does now, I use sky player alright but at peak times its buffer city.
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Old 13-01-2010, 17:49
paulbeattie87
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does now, I use sky player alright but at peak times its buffer city.
That's the biggest issue. You can't have a VoD service that buffers. You sit down, see that Forrest Gump is available so think ah I'll watch it and then have to spend 1 minute out of every 5 with it buffering, it's just not going to make a good service at all.

I think the closest we will see Sky coming to VoD is what they have just now with replay or whatever it's called. The money they charge companies to be on the Sky platform, money from subscribers for services they're paying for but not using is too lucrative for Sky to give up. Not to mention the ability to increase the subscription several times per year without a whim from their customers.
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Old 13-01-2010, 21:13
hanssolo
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I think the closest we will see Sky coming to VoD is what they have just now with replay or whatever it's called.
Sky are pushing streaming and Vod on the player on a PC or XBox as an extra revenue stream and an incentive to get people to move to Sky broadband. I will be surprised if they do not add QoS to Skybroadband!
Sky TV customers with the relevant Sky TV Pack plus Sky Broadband Unlimited or Multiroom is free, or you can subscribe to Sky Player Multiroom, discounted from 9.75 to 5 a month (until 5 March 2010, 10 a month thereafter). Non-Sky TV Customers: Sky Player subscription for Non-Sky TV Customers is 15-41/18-60 a month. Your subscription will renew automatically unless you unsubscribe. Some on-demand content is only available to Sky TV subscribers.
Burt as you say there are large parts of the country without a LLU service, so also will not be surprised if Sky Player and Talktalk TV do not push Ofcom into getting a BT wholesale service with QoS so they can be on an equal footing with BT Vision!
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Old 13-01-2010, 23:25
Matterhorn
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does now, I use sky player alright but at peak times its buffer city.
ahh, thats BT 'managed networking' for ya.
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Old 13-01-2010, 23:26
Matterhorn
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I knew you'd say that

Actually sky did wan't to launch on Fetch TV, maybe in order to get QOS, they've decided to go with BT?

Either way it's space freed up, for something BT want to do.
I knew you'd bite

FWIW I agree, the loss of Living is no biggie.
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Old 13-01-2010, 23:54
paulbeattie87
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Burt as you say there are large parts of the country without a LLU service, so also will not be surprised if Sky Player and Talktalk TV do not push Ofcom into getting a BT wholesale service with QoS so they can be on an equal footing with BT Vision!
The QoS used on BT Vision was designed and developed by BT Wholesale and is available for any ISP to use. It is not an exclusive BT technology. Also because it was developed by BT Wholesale that would mean Sky cannot use it on their LLU network since Sky only have dealings with Openreach for the local loop in that instance.

Talking of equal footings, when will Sky be broken up in two so that Virgin Media, Tiscali and BT Vision access the exclusive Sky programming for cost rather than Sky's inflated pricing.
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Old 14-01-2010, 07:37
jam2000
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The QoS used on BT Vision was designed and developed by BT Wholesale and is available for any ISP to use. It is not an exclusive BT technology. Also because it was developed by BT Wholesale that would mean Sky cannot use it on their LLU network since Sky only have dealings with Openreach for the local loop in that instance.

Talking of equal footings, when will Sky be broken up in two so that Virgin Media, Tiscali and BT Vision access the exclusive Sky programming for cost rather than Sky's inflated pricing.
Exactly. I have been saying this for a long time. After all Sky have access to the BT networks at cost.
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Old 14-01-2010, 09:38
hanssolo
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Exactly. I have been saying this for a long time. After all Sky have access to the BT networks at cost.
There was the pubic fallout between VM and Sky over it, VM and UKTV did not pull their sations from Sky and eventually VM and Sky got some kind of arrangement altough VM still don't have some of Sky's HD content.

Surprised VM will want to pull Living from BT? (any news?)

Sky had some kind of deal with Homechoice/Tiscalli\Talktalk
but not made public, maybe it's due to the Tiscali TV having only 50k subscribers or paying to much?

BT Vision's CE Gavin Patterson made a formal complaint to Ofcom about the high price Sky wanted for the sports channels, Ofcom have been looking into it for 2 years and I don't think it has yet been resolved yet?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...rson-interview
Competitors, including Virgin Media and Sky itself, are gaining market share by offering consumers a "triple play" package of phone, internet and TV. Virgin has more broadband customers nearly 4 million than it does cable subscribers. "50% of customers who change broadband suppliers take a bundle of services from their new provider," says Patterson.

So BT Vision may be an ambitious foray into a new and unfamiliar market, but it is also part of a desperate effort to hold on to key customers. Appointing former Sky chief executive Tony Ball to the BT board as a non-executive director in June was a statement of intent, Patterson says, and so too is the two-and-a-half-year legal battle it has fought to loosen Sky's vice-like grip on football and films.

But if the Conservatives win the next election, BT and its allies may find that a new administration is eager to avoid a confrontation with Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation, the biggest shareholder in BSkyB. Patterson seems unfazed. "There are plenty of people who said BT would bleed to death when the regulator forced us to sell access to our network", he says. "I don't think Sky should be scared of this. They are one of our biggest wholesale customers and we would like to be one of theirs."

With that, he wanders over to his PC to check England's on bid to regain the Ashes presumably using the BBC website, rather than Sky Sports.
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Old 14-01-2010, 10:59
stuntmaster
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ahh, thats BT 'managed networking' for ya.
that isn't the cause.

I meant by peak times were things like peak sports on sky.

can watch some footie highlights no problem no matter what the day or time is.

but the cricket which is on now is completely buffer city.

methinks the office bods at work watching on their pc's....
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Old 14-01-2010, 14:26
scotty2808
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ahh, thats BT 'managed networking' for ya.
More like Sky not providing enough bandwidth for access into the BT network.

Sky player generally works fine until a (midweek) football program starts... funnily enough once the program ends there are no issues!

Given the costs of Sky Player (40 a month for Sky Sports and Sky Movies) and the p*ss poor service (and customer service) - it's a total rip off. Once my discounted trial ends I will be cancelling it.
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