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Old 15-10-2012, 13:19
Greebo
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As title, I just tried the dvbtools scan command, and it has dug out the name - "CAPITAL TV" for the new channel that isn't yet being broadcast.
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Old 15-10-2012, 16:56
Ray Cathode
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As title, I just tried the dvbtools scan command, and it has dug out the name - "CAPITAL TV" for the new channel that isn't yet being broadcast.
If you can view the contents of the NIT and / or SDT, then channel name & LCN should be found there, whether it has a PMT entry or not.
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Old 15-10-2012, 17:28
Greebo
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The channel names appear to be stored in the SDT which is PID 17 - and isn't a PID that my scripts regularly check as the automated stuff is just supposed to alert me to significant changes.

Here's what the entire packet related to the Manchester Mux looks like (captured from the HD mux):

Code:
------------------------------------------------------------
SECT-Packet: 00000008   PID: 17 (0x0011), Length: 115 (0x0073)
Time received: Mon 2012-10-15  17:18:45.637
------------------------------------------------------------
PID:  17 (0x0011)  [= assigned for: DVB Service Description Table (SDT), Bouquet Association Table (BAT)]

Guess table from table id...
SDT-decoding....
Table_ID: 70 (0x46)  [= Service Description Table (SDT) - other transport stream]
section_syntax_indicator: 1 (0x01)
reserved_1: 1 (0x01)
reserved_2: 3 (0x03)
Section_length: 112 (0x0070)
Transport_Stream_ID: 29697 (0x7401)
reserved_3: 3 (0x03)
Version_number: 8 (0x08)
current_next_indicator: 1 (0x01)  [= valid now]
Section_number: 0 (0x00)
Last_Section_number: 0 (0x00)
Original_network_ID:  9018 (0x233a)  [= UK Digital Terrestrial Television | Independent Television Commission]
reserved_4: 255 (0xff)


    Service_id: 29761 (0x7441)  [=  --> refers to PMT program_number]
    reserved_1: 63 (0x3f)
    EIT_schedule_flag: 1 (0x01)
    EIT_present_following_flag: 1 (0x01)
    Running_status: 4 (0x04)  [= running]
    Free_CA_mode: 0 (0x00)  [= unscrambled]
    Descriptors_loop_length: 15 (0x000f)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 72 (0x48)  [= service_descriptor]
            descriptor_length: 13 (0x0d)
            service_type: 1 (0x01)  [= digital television service]
            service_provider_name_length: 0 (0x00)
            service_provider_name: ""
            service_name_length: 10 (0x0a)
            Service_name: "movies4men"  -- Charset: Latin alphabet


    Service_id: 29825 (0x7481)  [=  --> refers to PMT program_number]
    reserved_1: 63 (0x3f)
    EIT_schedule_flag: 1 (0x01)
    EIT_present_following_flag: 1 (0x01)
    Running_status: 4 (0x04)  [= running]
    Free_CA_mode: 0 (0x00)  [= unscrambled]
    Descriptors_loop_length: 14 (0x000e)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 72 (0x48)  [= service_descriptor]
            descriptor_length: 12 (0x0c)
            service_type: 1 (0x01)  [= digital television service]
            service_provider_name_length: 0 (0x00)
            service_provider_name: ""
            service_name_length: 9 (0x09)
            Service_name: "mov4men+1"  -- Charset: Latin alphabet


    Service_id: 29889 (0x74c1)  [=  --> refers to PMT program_number]
    reserved_1: 63 (0x3f)
    EIT_schedule_flag: 1 (0x01)
    EIT_present_following_flag: 1 (0x01)
    Running_status: 4 (0x04)  [= running]
    Free_CA_mode: 0 (0x00)  [= unscrambled]
    Descriptors_loop_length: 13 (0x000d)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 72 (0x48)  [= service_descriptor]
            descriptor_length: 11 (0x0b)
            service_type: 1 (0x01)  [= digital television service]
            service_provider_name_length: 0 (0x00)
            service_provider_name: ""
            service_name_length: 8 (0x08)
            Service_name: "SONY SAB"  -- Charset: Latin alphabet


    Service_id: 29953 (0x7501)  [=  --> refers to PMT program_number]
    reserved_1: 63 (0x3f)
    EIT_schedule_flag: 1 (0x01)
    EIT_present_following_flag: 1 (0x01)
    Running_status: 4 (0x04)  [= running]
    Free_CA_mode: 0 (0x00)  [= unscrambled]
    Descriptors_loop_length: 18 (0x0012)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 72 (0x48)  [= service_descriptor]
            descriptor_length: 16 (0x10)
            service_type: 1 (0x01)  [= digital television service]
            service_provider_name_length: 0 (0x00)
            service_provider_name: ""
            service_name_length: 13 (0x0d)
            Service_name: "ARGOS TV 24/7"  -- Charset: Latin alphabet


    Service_id: 30017 (0x7541)  [=  --> refers to PMT program_number]
    reserved_1: 63 (0x3f)
    EIT_schedule_flag: 0 (0x00)
    EIT_present_following_flag: 0 (0x00)
    Running_status: 4 (0x04)  [= running]
    Free_CA_mode: 0 (0x00)  [= unscrambled]
    Descriptors_loop_length: 15 (0x000f)

            DVB-DescriptorTag: 72 (0x48)  [= service_descriptor]
            descriptor_length: 13 (0x0d)
            service_type: 1 (0x01)  [= digital television service]
            service_provider_name_length: 0 (0x00)
            service_provider_name: ""
            service_name_length: 10 (0x0a)
            Service_name: "CAPITAL TV"  -- Charset: Latin alphabet

CRC: 2818664786 (0xa8016952)
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Old 15-10-2012, 18:05
Ray Cathode
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I suppose the timing of this new channel Freeview Manchester launch CAPITAL TV coincides with its launch a few days ago on satellite, proving that the Manchester Network is sourced from 28.2ºE off air.

Will the 6th stream be HEART TV?
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Old 15-10-2012, 22:59
Greebo
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Will the 6th stream be HEART TV?
That certainly seems plausible if Global Radio haven't got a paying customer lined up in the wings. I'm assuming that Global are now the mux owner since they took over GMG Radio.

I've now had chance to have a hack at the SDT, so I should get an alert if any of the channel names change or new ones appear. One strange thing is that the SDT from Winter Hill includes entries for S4/C, BBC ONE Wales, BBC TWO Wales, ITV1 Wales, Radio Wales and Radio Cymru. I don't really have any explanations for this, though it is clearly not an issue. Do any other regions have spurious data in their SDTs? Maybe it is something to do with Storeton's 3 extra muxes pointing at Wales? (Not that I'm receiving from Storeton)
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Old 15-10-2012, 23:37
Ray Cathode
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That certainly seems plausible if Global Radio haven't got a paying customer lined up in the wings. I'm assuming that Global are now the mux owner since they took over GMG Radio.

I've now had chance to have a hack at the SDT, so I should get an alert if any of the channel names change or new ones appear. One strange thing is that the SDT from Winter Hill includes entries for S4/C, BBC ONE Wales, BBC TWO Wales, ITV1 Wales, Radio Wales and Radio Cymru. I don't really have any explanations for this, though it is clearly not an issue. Do any other regions have spurious data in their SDTs? Maybe it is something to do with Storeton's 3 extra muxes pointing at Wales? (Not that I'm receiving from Storeton)
Global did not buy the Channel M mux and transmitter hardware; a subsidiary of Canis Media did. There was a reference to it somewhere; maybe on this thread!

I think that certain N Wales coastal viewers are supposed to receive PSB muxes from Storeton Wales (relay of Moel y Parc) with COM from Winter Hill. Hence the possibility of duplicating PSB regional channels from Winter Hill.

BTW do you get CAPITAL TV as a placeholder on LCN790 (or whatever) if you scan the local Gtr Manchester mux?
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Old 15-10-2012, 23:52
Greebo
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BTW do you get CAPITAL TV as a placeholder on LCN790 (or whatever) if you scan the local Gtr Manchester mux?
Yes, I did try scanning one box earlier and 790 appeared named as CAPITAL TV. Obviously there was just a black screen, and info showed all PIDs as zero.
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Old 16-10-2012, 17:31
Greebo
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Yes, I did try scanning one box earlier and 790 appeared named as CAPITAL TV.
To follow that up, a couple of Samsung TVs that I've tried seem to skip 790 (and now 791, 792 both from ARQA) when rescanning. So not all devices show these temporary empty LCNs.
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Old 16-10-2012, 18:29
chrisy
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Global did not buy the Channel M mux and transmitter hardware; a subsidiary of Canis Media did. There was a reference to it somewhere; maybe on this thread!
http://mobile.twitter.com/ukdtt/stat...24896245768193

Originally Posted by @ukdtt
Former Channel M mux officially transferred to Entertainment TV Ltd aka @CanisMedia http://spectruminfo.ofcom.org.uk/spe...adeRef=2138491 #freeview#localtv

7:26pm Wed Sep 26
Don't think it made it to this thread, but hey, it's here now!
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Old 16-10-2012, 22:40
a516
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Your link takes me to a blank page (as it did when it was posted on Twitter), however http://spectruminfo.ofcom.org.uk/spe...adeRef=2219132 shows the details
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Old 17-10-2012, 11:58
Greebo
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CAPITAL TV is now running - LCN 56. The video and audio PIDs appeared approx 11:25 , so about 25 minutes after the LCN changes.
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Old 17-10-2012, 12:28
ozsat
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CAPITAL TV is now running - LCN 56. The video and audio PIDs appeared approx 11:25 , so about 25 minutes after the LCN changes.
May I ask what is the current Manchester line-up?

Wasn't Movies4Men on 56?
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Old 17-10-2012, 12:36
Martin Phillp
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May I ask what is the current Manchester line-up?
Movies4Men and +1
Sony SAB TV.
Argos TV 24/7
Capital TV.
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Old 17-10-2012, 12:37
Greebo
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May I ask what is the current Manchester line-up?
51 movies4men
52 mov4men+1
53 SONY SAB
54 ARGOS TV 24/7
(55 is a national Argos channel with limited hours)
56 CAPITAL TV

The delay to moving the HD channels up to 101-104 meant that the relaunch of the G_MAN mux had to use temporary numbers 56-59.
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Old 17-10-2012, 12:40
ozsat
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Thank you

51 movies4men
52 mov4men+1
53 SONY SAB
54 ARGOS TV 24/7
(55 is a national Argos channel with limited hours)
56 CAPITAL TV

The delay to moving the HD channels up to 101-104 meant that the relaunch of the G_MAN mux had to use temporary numbers 56-59.
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Old 17-10-2012, 13:42
paul_m
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Movies4Men and +1
Sony SAB TV.
Argos TV 24/7
Capital TV.
Considering it's just a local mux and I was expecting it to be full of the lowest of the low shopping channels, I think that's a pretty decent line up.
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Old 17-10-2012, 20:08
chrisy
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Your link takes me to a blank page (as it did when it was posted on Twitter), however http://spectruminfo.ofcom.org.uk/spe...adeRef=2219132 shows the details
There's something weird with Ofcom's site as both of those are blank for me now.

This is the licence itself, maybe this link will continue to work:
http://spectruminfo.ofcom.org.uk/spe...Find%20licence
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Old 17-10-2012, 20:24
a516
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There's something weird with Ofcom's site as both of those are blank for me now.

This is the licence itself, maybe this link will continue to work:
http://spectruminfo.ofcom.org.uk/spe...Find%20licence
Perhaps its a session URL - i.e. one that expires after the browsing session has ended.
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Old 17-10-2012, 22:24
AngusMast
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Does this mean Manchester is the capital of the UK now?
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Old 22-10-2012, 23:02
chrisy
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Does this mean Manchester is the capital of the UK now?
It's a confusing name, Capital FM TV would have been better and more descriptive. Also the name Capital TV has been used before - by Cardiff's old local TV station.
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Old 22-10-2012, 23:05
DragonQ
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All of these channels will be on every major transmitter eventually. It's just that they trialled this "local TV mux" thing in Manchester first, presumably because there wasn't space in London due to the temporary HD mux being there.
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Old 22-10-2012, 23:34
chrisy
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All of these channels will be on every major transmitter eventually. It's just that they trialled this "local TV mux" thing in Manchester first, presumably because there wasn't space in London due to the temporary HD mux being there.
No they won't - there isn't space. The Manchester multiplex isn't a trial, it was the start of the spectrum auctions for interleaved channels intended for local TV. They only licensed two before the entire thing was postponed/delayed for one reason or another. The eventual intention was to auction these off everywhere for local TV, but with the delays, and the change of government, similar interleaved frequencies are now being allocated for PSB local TV with coverage and programming obligations.

The existing two could be used for anything. Whilst Manchester's did start out with local TV on it, it no longer does, and the fact that the Cardiff one is still not on-air (the licensee having also put in a joke of a PSB local channel application, which Ofcom quite rightly rejected), shows that what we're going to get is likely to be a massive improvement over what we would have got.

Manchester get a few extra channels due to the quirk of history, and they will get the PSB local multiplex too! But the Manchester multiplex or a variant thereof will not appear everywhere (although it could conceivably turn up in Cardiff) because any such auction has been delayed indefinitely and will likely only be held on a national level now if it does go ahead.
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Old 22-10-2012, 23:42
DragonQ
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Surely the PSB Local TV muxes will have capacity that can house these currently-Manchester-only channels?
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Old 22-10-2012, 23:57
RickyB
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Global did not buy the Channel M mux and transmitter hardware; a subsidiary of Canis Media did. There was a reference to it somewhere; maybe on this thread!

I think that certain N Wales coastal viewers are supposed to receive PSB muxes from Storeton Wales (relay of Moel y Parc) with COM from Winter Hill.
Doesn't Storeton have COM as well? Although obviously it is Winter Hill relay.
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Old 23-10-2012, 01:43
reslfj
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Doesn't Storeton have COM as well? Although obviously it is Winter Hill relay.
But Storeton Wales doesn't have COM muxes and is a relay of Moel y Parc.

(The Storeton COM muxes are very directional towards NNE (Liverpool)) and gorup A and V polarized.

Winter Hill and Storeton Wales PSB muxes are both group C/D H.

Lars
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