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Old 19-04-2011, 17:47
sacavsworld
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The problem with channel m is that it is not in the normal LCN area for tv channels. I think it needs to move to a lower LCN number to increase veiwers and potential advertisers.
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Old 19-04-2011, 17:55
a516
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This is true, and surprisingly the issue of keeping local TV down the list was strongly supported in the recent consultation over Freeview / digital terrestrial channel numbering.

However should this new "high profile" Sky channel coming to the Manchester multiplex be let's say a general entertainment channel, I would have thought it would have been better to give it a channel number at the end of the general entertainment section.

The channel is due May, so technical changes would probably need to be done next week if it was to actually go live on the 1st, as the 1st is on a Sunday, and technical changes don't normally take place then.
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Old 19-04-2011, 20:19
chrisy
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This is true, and surprisingly the issue of keeping local TV down the list was strongly supported in the recent consultation over Freeview / digital terrestrial channel numbering.

However should this new "high profile" Sky channel coming to the Manchester multiplex be let's say a general entertainment channel, I would have thought it would have been better to give it a channel number at the end of the general entertainment section.
I suppose the definition comes into it. Local channels are channels targetting a specific area. Even if this is only available in Manchester, is it still a "local channel"? You could argue it isn't, and the Manchester-only launch is an initial test for a channel which intends to go nationwide. The counter-argument is that it is only available in Manchester, so it is only targetting a specific area. This is why the local channels genre should be dissolved - it's too ambiguous.

The channel is due May, so technical changes would probably need to be done next week if it was to actually go live on the 1st, as the 1st is on a Sunday, and technical changes don't normally take place then.
Not only a Sunday, but a Bank Holiday weekend. The placeholder would have to be up Thursday latest.

PS I'm also amazed at the lack of speculation in this thread!
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Old 19-04-2011, 20:23
Muzer
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Mildly offtopic, but aside from this and the Irish mux in Northern Ireland, are there any other local muxes/are any others planned/in negotiations?
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Old 19-04-2011, 20:32
chrisy
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@Muzer

Jeremy Hunt's "Channel 6" plan has put everything on hold for now.
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Old 19-04-2011, 21:05
Colin_London
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Well, it's hardly 'on hold'. There is a plan and it is progressing to a timetable:

http://www.dcms.gov.uk/what_we_do/br...ting/7722.aspx

So the first local stations are planned to be licenced in Summer 2012.
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Old 19-04-2011, 21:15
Greebo
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...but I don't think many can still receive the Manchester local multiplex...
Earlier published plans had channel 57 released at Wrekin DSO2 tonight, after which Channel M was allowed to widen its beam. Looks like this is delayed until September at the earliest as The Wrekin is hanging onto channel 57 for a while longer now.
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Old 19-04-2011, 21:20
Greebo
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This is true, and surprisingly the issue of keeping local TV down the list was strongly supported in the recent consultation over Freeview / digital terrestrial channel numbering.
I wonder who was aware of the consultation though? If all the submissions were from national broadcasters then it's not surprising that they are keen to keep any potential competition pushed well down the EPG.
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Old 19-04-2011, 22:24
a516
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So who could the "high profile" Sky broadcaster be?

Well many channels on Sky at the moment are at least partly owned by Sky themselves, but then there are the noticable independents out there...

CNN - described their last time on Freeview as a test... once the carriage contract expired.

CBS Channels - but would they count as being a high profile broadcaster?

Sony - FTV via Sky, but again - would you already consider such a new channel to be "high profile"?

Eurosport - Has been on FTA digital terrestrial in Germany, but since they days of having one pan-european feed on Astra 19.2E most of their distribution outlets across the continent have been pay TV. German DTT streams withdrawn in some regions.

Information TV - with such a niche format, they might want to dip their toe into the world of Freeview to see if Freeviewers would watch their unusual mix of programming. Already shown an interest in coming to Freeview, and the organisation already provides Russia Today on the digital terrestrial platform. But hardly high-profile, I hear you say.

A UKTV channel - unlikely, they already have capacity on Freeview and would not need to try a service on a regional basis.

QVC - wanting to try out their new channel QVC Beauty, like Ideal World gave us Ideal Extra for a few months in 2010. That reminds me: Ideal Extra went off air earlier than was announced and we got TV News2 24/7 for a whole month. Ideal Extra has never been seen again on Freeview.

NBC Universal - operate numerous services on satellite, and the organisation was reportedly in the running for early additional slots on Mux C and D in 2004-2006 that ultimately got snapped up by ITV (Men & Motors>ITV Play>ITV2+1>ITV4) and Channel 4 (E4, E4+1, More 4+1>Film4).
And to please you-know-who: CNBC. I somehow doubt they'll offer a regional service in Manchester. London perhaps. Not Manchester.

Unlike channel 45.... we'll know in a fortnight.
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Old 19-04-2011, 22:36
chrisy
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Well, it's hardly 'on hold'. There is a plan and it is progressing to a timetable:

http://www.dcms.gov.uk/what_we_do/br...ting/7722.aspx

So the first local stations are planned to be licenced in Summer 2012.
Sorry, I meant the licensing of local muxes was on hold, not local channels.
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Old 19-04-2011, 22:45
Colin_London
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If the consultation results in GI spectrum being the favoured method of distribution then 'Local Multiplexes' will be used for the new 'Channel 6' network of local stations.

The additional capacity in these multiplexes could then be used for other services in the same way as Channel M is doing.

http://www.dcms.gov.uk/images/consul...lan_190111.pdf
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Old 19-04-2011, 23:39
chrisy
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If the consultation results in GI spectrum being the favoured method of distribution then 'Local Multiplexes' will be used for the new 'Channel 6' network of local stations.
Yep, that's the point - we don't know yet whether this is the case. Therefore, Ofcom can't licence any new ones until they know whether C6 will need them (and the additional complication of which areas). The clearance of Ch60/61 (or is it 61/62, I always get that wrong) has screwed up the previous DDR/Interleaved allocations somewhat as well.

No more local muxes can be licensed until Ofcom know the spectrum requirements for C6. They probably won't be fully known until the winner of the C6 licence is decided.
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Old 20-04-2011, 00:57
Ray Cathode
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Cube Interactive might spring into life from Wenvoe, because the local frequency changes to UHF30 with the retune on 27/4/11. Well it probably won't, but here's hoping.
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Old 20-04-2011, 16:30
television2004
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Earlier published plans had channel 57 released at Wrekin DSO2 tonight, after which Channel M was allowed to widen its beam. Looks like this is delayed until September at the earliest as The Wrekin is hanging onto channel 57 for a while longer now.
The maim problem is not The Wrekin but Llandonna on Anglesey which broadcasts high power on Ch57 which I can receive only 6 miles SW from Winter Hill.
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Old 20-04-2011, 16:33
daniel2015
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I would be right annoyed if this channel turns out to be a worthwhile channel and only people in Manchester can get it.
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Old 21-04-2011, 13:30
speculator
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I would be right annoyed if this channel turns out to be a worthwhile channel and only people in Manchester can get it.
Apart from SDN, channels can only get on DTT via Arqiva. But SDN is only a small part of the DTT spectrum so not a competitive rival to Arqiva. With Arqiva having a virtual-monopolistic position, they can charge what they like to channels and stipulate that from launch, the channels have to broadcast from all main transmitters. This price is out of the reach of most channels and only shopping channels (Create & Craft, Gems TV have just increased their hours) and self-funding channels (Daystar, Russia Today) can afford to do this.

I am pleased with this news as it gives alternative channels a financial viable option to get on Freeview. This "high profile Sky channel" can launch on Winter Hill transmitter so their initial transmission costs will be low. And as the 7th mux (geographic interleaved spectrum) progressively gets added to the other main transmitters, this channel can expand its reach to other UK cities. It is a copy of the GMG Radio business plan. They started as single stations and by progressively expanding, Smooth and Real Radio are now available in most of the high-populated regions. DTT is already 2 tier - Freeview Lite v Freeview - so this does not change the status quo. The UHF spectrum is limited and this decision ensures that it is used in a constructive way for the benefit of the tv viewer.[list=1][*]All transmitters (3 muxes) : Freeview Lite
Includes public service tv, radio and HD[*]Main transmitter (6 muxes) : Freeview
Includes Freeview Lite and channels like ITV4, Film4, 5★[*]Main transmitter (7 muxes) : with low power geographic interleaved spectrum
Includes Freeview, local tv and room for "high profile Sky channel(s)"[/list]
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Old 27-04-2011, 18:53
chrisy
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Ch 202 MANCHESTERLOVE has been "depublished" according to the DMOL channel list.
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Old 27-04-2011, 19:26
Greebo
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Something has changed on the mux as well - 202 is still there and broadcasting video (was there ever any audio?), however if you do a rescan it vanishes - only Channel M on 200 remains.

Annoyingly now the trees are in leaf I can't get a good enough signal to my pc to look at the mux further.
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Old 27-04-2011, 22:57
chrisy
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Something has changed on the mux as well - 202 is still there and broadcasting video (was there ever any audio?), however if you do a rescan it vanishes - only Channel M on 200 remains.
Is the video different to what it was (just text AFAIK)? It might have offered some clue to the "high profile channel"!

We're likely to find out tomorrow anyway - I can't see them making changes over the BH weekend.
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Old 28-04-2011, 00:23
Greebo
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The video is still text-based dating adverts. I'm not in a position to say whether or not there are minor changes, but it isn't a new channel - yet.
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Old 28-04-2011, 20:11
Greebo
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And we have an answer!

Sometime this afternoon the signal strength/quality has changed slightly and I can get a lock on the mux again with my pc card.

By 6pm, the following was detected:

[7002]:762000000:INVERSION_AUTO:BANDWIDTH_8_MHZ:FEC_3_4:FEC_1_2:QAM_16:TRANSMISSION_MODE_8K:GUARD_INTERVAL_1_32:HIERARCHY_NONE:2323:2324:28674

It has no channel name yet (hence the [7002]), and scanning with a TV doesn't find it, but I can see it on the pc and the feed is.... (pause for dramatic effect) .... movies4men
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Old 28-04-2011, 20:59
Ray Cathode
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Nice scoop but hardly a high profile channel.

Let us know the LCN when it appears. And is MANCHESTERLOVE completely gone?
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Old 28-04-2011, 21:14
Greebo
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Yes, the MANCHESTERLOVE pids have been removed - they had gone when my automated script ran at 6pm, so it never saw both [7002] and MANCHESTERLOVE at the same time.

Pidscan now shows:
dvbsnoop V1.4.50 -- http://dvbsnoop.sourceforge.net/

---------------------------------------------------------
Transponder PID-Scan...
---------------------------------------------------------
PID found: 0 (0x0000) [SECTION: Program Association Table (PAT)]
PID found: 16 (0x0010) [SECTION: Network Information Table (NIT) - actual network]
PID found: 17 (0x0011) [SECTION: Service Description Table (SDT) - other transport stream]
PID found: 18 (0x0012) [SECTION: Event Information Table (EIT) - other transport stream, schedule]
PID found: 20 (0x0014) [SECTION: Time Date Table (TDT)]
PID found: 32 (0x0020) [PS/PES: ITU-T Rec. H.262 | ISO/IEC 13818-2 or ISO/IEC 11172-2 video stream]
PID found: 33 (0x0021) [PS/PES: ISO/IEC 13818-3 or ISO/IEC 11172-3 audio stream]
PID found: 38 (0x0026) [unknown]
PID found: 257 (0x0101) [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)]
PID found: 271 (0x010f) [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)]
PID found: 2308 (0x0904) [unknown]
PID found: 2323 (0x0913) [PS/PES: ITU-T Rec. H.262 | ISO/IEC 13818-2 or ISO/IEC 11172-2 video stream]
PID found: 2324 (0x0914) [PS/PES: ISO/IEC 13818-3 or ISO/IEC 11172-3 audio stream]
PID found: 8191 (0x1fff) [stuffing]
For those who like their bandwidth stats, you can compare Channel M video on 32
packets read: 21/(15736) d_time: 0.001 s = 31584.000 kbit/s (Avrg: 1533.528 kbit/s) [bad: 0]
to the new 2323 PID:
packets read: 43/(8196) d_time: 0.001 s = 64672.000 kbit/s (Avrg: 3080.156 kbit/s) [bad: 0]
(edit: 23/32 typo)
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Old 28-04-2011, 21:41
daniel2015
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LOL Movies4Men is not a high profile sky channel

Its one of those cheep FTA rubbish ones. Dont think I am too bothered about this one been manchester only.
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Old 28-04-2011, 21:59
Ray Cathode
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Do you think they chose Movies4Men because of the preponderance of "M"s? Calling it a "Sky" channel is misleading as it also appears on Freesat. In fact the owners of the channel put their newest channel Men & Movies exclusively on Freesat for a while. So it should really NOT be described as a Sky channel.

Greebo make sure you post in the Changelog.
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