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Manchester - Local Freeview Multiplex - Information Thread |
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#201 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Manchester
Posts: 348
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Quote:
Grab a computer, add a DAB tuner card, tune to their own radio station, and there, you've got your MPEG Layer 2 stream in whatever encapsulation format you can be bothered with.
If you're going to go to all the trouble of that you might as well just feed the baseband audio directly into the PC and use a lib like toolame to generate the layer 2 stream in the first place. Then all you'd have to do is write the software to generate a transport stream and squirt it out your expensive ASI adaptor. It might be possible to use ffmpeg or vlc to do this, but I've never been too impressed with quality and reliability of those apps/libs, they need regular bouncing not mention the clock streams they generate are usually wildly off for realtime applications. It's a solution that would probably require a lot of babysitting to keep it working. Of course the other advantage of not going near DAB is you'd also be free to use any bitrate you want, instead of having to put up with the abysmal rates you get on DAB. |
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#202 |
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Andover, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 3,624
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Sorry, I didn't expect physical and encapsulation issues to be a problem, for some reason.
If they were receiving M4M over standard satellite, I'd expect they could repurpose the same equipment to receive their radio stations from DAB. I might still be talking rubbish of course
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#203 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Manchester
Posts: 348
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Most encoders and multiplexers still use ASI interfaces to interconnect them. IP connectivity is becoming more popular, although it's usually a cost option.
Remuxing a service off satellite only requires the demod element of an IRD, you take the compressed transport stream out of the receiver and send it directly into the multiplexer using ASI, and rely on the mux to do the necessary adaptation. Never at any point does the service get decoded back to baseband audio and video, and that's the key point. Because it's all DVB, at a fundamental level, it just works. It's a great solution as you skip a whole decode-recode step, it's also considerably cheaper, you can use an £800 sat receiver instead of that and several thousand pounds worth of MPEG 2 encoder. But the downside is that you're stuck with the bit-rate used on satellite. |
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#204 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 236
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Quote:
Most encoders and multiplexers still use ASI interfaces to interconnect them. IP connectivity is becoming more popular, although it's usually a cost option.
Remuxing a service off satellite only requires the demod element of an IRD, you take the compressed transport stream out of the receiver and send it directly into the multiplexer using ASI, and rely on the mux to do the necessary adaptation. Never at any point does the service get decoded back to baseband audio and video, and that's the key point. Because it's all DVB, at a fundamental level, it just works. It's a great solution as you skip a whole decode-recode step, it's also considerably cheaper, you can use an £800 sat receiver instead of that and several thousand pounds worth of MPEG 2 encoder. But the downside is that you're stuck with the bit-rate used on satellite. MPEG 2 encoders have come down in price and are typically under £400.00. MPEG 4 encoders still a tad up there but typically £1,500.00 Remuxing the transport stream from a sat source and re broadcasting in DVB-T has been going on since moses . Well not quite ,but a while anyhow. As you have indicated the only benefit of decoding and recoding is to squeeze programs into a limited bandwidth such as CH M have suffered. Its about time this issue with unfair bandwidth was resolved. We need to set up a march from Manchester to London (or perhaps Crawley Court) with banners ,drums ,placards and all that protesting about southern softies inflicting limited bandwidth on us poor northerners. We need our local telly with lots of TV channels!!!!! |
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#205 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 4,751
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How can a single channel with 18 Mbps or whatever it is be bandwidth limited??
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#206 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 236
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Quote:
How can a single channel with 18 Mbps or whatever it is be bandwidth limited??
In other words 15 SD TV programs in DVB-T2 mode. All that is needed is the relaxation of the very severe radiation pattern that has been imposed on them by the planners , that in my opinion has no technical justification whatsoever that limits bandwidth or bit rate .The only way reasonable coverage can be achieved is in QPSK mode due the effect the 100kW ERP adjacent channel PSB broadcast on ch 58 has on the broadcast of Ch M’s 1kW ERP on ch 57 . Ch M's transmsion power is further reduced by a massive amount below 1kW ERP at +/- just a few degrees due the very narrow radiation pattern imposed. Due to severe building clutter in the Manchester area a increase in power is needed. Double standards are being applied with regards to the fade margins provided on the PBS and Arqiva muxes compared to the almost non existent fade margins for RSL,s For local telly to be successful propagation needs to be robust within the licence area. If it was Ofcoms intention to limit coverage because they wished minimal homes served ,that’s a licence issue ,but I do not believe this is the case within the Manchester area with channel M,s licence. I am of the understanding that the restrictions imposed with regards to power and modulation type was purely an interference issue and as I have stated in this post and others it is my opinion that the restrictions do not stand scrutiny. So far since the start of local telly approx ten years ago the coverage provided by the very strict technical restrictions with regards to interference with other broadcasts has been so restrictive poor coverage and reception within the intended coverage area has been a serious problem with several RSL’s and needs addressing by Ofcom . Unless enough viewers can receive robust reception and the cost of transmission kept low, local telly will never be commercially viable. To keep the cost low it is essential that the transmission platform and other overheads be shared with other local organizations wishing to broadcast and there are many. Providing a transmission platform for other national broadcasters would be an option but Ofcom may wish to protect the monopoly of the current transmission infrastructure company. But offering spare capacity to other interested local partys is an option that has no conflict with retaining the monopoly enjoyed by Arqiva. |
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#207 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,256
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Proposal to move Channel M to LCN 75 by 18/4/12
DMOL have released a consultation doc yesterday regarding long term changes to the freeview LCNs: http://www.dmol.co.uk/DMOL%20LCN%20C...rch%202012.pdf It's a long and wordy doc, but buried within it (page 105) is a much more prompt plan to "reunite the split ADULT genre" ... "which involves addressing the positioning of the Local TV genre". Gist is they are proposing to get this done by London DSO2 on April 18th so that all those retunes pick up a single block of adult channels. The side effect for Channel M (and any other channels on the local mux if they happen to relaunch) is that they will move from 200- to 75-79 : Quote:
1. To expand the current Adult genre running from LCNs 92 to 99 (inclusive) to run from LCNs 91 to 100 (inclusive), so that the two channels currently sitting in the overflow section at LCNs 189 to 199 may be reunited with the other Adult channels; and Longer term they are proposing that the local channel genre will vanish, and local channels will be classified in the same categories as national channels. LCNs allocated to local channels in one area can be reused for another unrelated local channel in a different area in order to use LCNs efficiently. See p72/73 for this aspect.2. To move the Local TV genre, on an interim basis, from LCN 200 to the LCN 75 to 79 range, in between the Children‟s genre (at LCNs 70 to 74) and the News genre (at LCNs 80 to 89). This, in effect, would mean moving Channel M in Manchester from LCN 200 to LCN 75; though channels may subsequently launch in other areas. Note that none of this is final- it is a consultation doc. |
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#208 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,256
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Channel M currently off air
Channel M looks like its been broadcasting a mux made entirely of stuffing since about 1pm. I guess the move from LCN 200 to 75 is underway, and for some reason isn't an instant change.
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#209 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Guildford / Crystal Palace
Posts: 13,114
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No changes have been made yet to the NITs in London which might be why as all NITs are linked and cross coupled.
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#210 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Manchester
Posts: 348
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Quote:
Channel M looks like its been broadcasting a mux made entirely of stuffing since about 1pm.
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#211 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,256
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I prefer PID 8190 [bread sauce]
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#212 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Guildford / Crystal Palace
Posts: 13,114
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Null packets are better.
Christmas presents with nothing inside. |
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#213 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Manchester
Posts: 348
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Quote:
I prefer PID 8190 [bread sauce]
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#214 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,256
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This isn't looking good for Channel M is it? The mux still consists entirely of stuffing. The other 5 DVB-T muxes no longer list any references to it in their NITs. DMOL have removed LCN 200 from http://www.dmol.co.uk/lcn_post.php but have not added 75.
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#215 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: London
Posts: 20,280
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GMG (Radio Holdings Limited) have closed Channel M.
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#216 |
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Andover, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 3,624
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That's sad.
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#217 |
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Guildford / Crystal Palace
Posts: 13,114
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Sad but inevitable. I suspect GMG's heart was not into local TV. Will GMG bid for the new Manchester local licence? Will anyone? GMG still retain the licence which could be used for non TV content such as wireless broadband. Same applies to the Cardiff licencee Cube interactive who have yet to broadcast a byte of DTV.
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#218 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: London
Posts: 20,280
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Quote:
Sad but inevitable. I suspect GMG's heart was not into local TV. Will GMG bid for the new Manchester local licence? Will anyone? GMG still retain the licence which could be used for non TV content such as wireless broadband. Same applies to the Cardiff licencee Cube interactive who have yet to broadcast a byte of DTV.
The limited company now looks a lot more attractive to a potential investor without a loss making local tv station tagging on to it, although some of the content of their radio stations and poor branding are questionable. |
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#219 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Crumpsall, Manchester
Posts: 734
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#220 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,256
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The mux appears to have gone off air this morning, sometime between 11:40 and 11:50, and hasn't reappeared since.
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#221 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Guildford / Crystal Palace
Posts: 13,114
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Quote:
The mux appears to have gone off air this morning, sometime between 11:40 and 11:50, and hasn't reappeared since.
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#222 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 236
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Quote:
Exactly 2 calendar months after Channel M closed down.
Should be able to buy it at a good price. I would guess 2k or less. |
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#223 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,700
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From the Canis Media website:
Manchester Freeview opportunity Want to trial your channel on the Freeview platform? Or maybe you simply want to grow your audience? Perhaps Greater Manchester Freeview is the answer, with coverage that reaches 1.2 million homes. Priced at £5,000 per channel per month, we already have several interested candidates for the SIX channels that will populate a ‘destination’ area of the Freeview EPG with slots in the 60s. Channels will launch on September 1st, just before the advertised Freeview retune, so it’s a perfect opportunity to tap into a whole new audience. For more detailed information, contact fergus.lawson@canismedia.com or james.carter@canismedia.com |
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#224 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,753
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Wouldn't the destination slots be 75-79 or is that only for specifically local channels?
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#225 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 5,204
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Quote:
Wouldn't the destination slots be 75-79 or is that only for specifically local channels?
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