Hi!

So I was just thinking when Leona came along the X Factor began to get a stronger following in America and she was the first of the winners to be offered a US record deal as before Leona the idea of the winner getting another seperate contract was unheard of...

Since then Alexandra has also been offered a US deal and Joe may possibly be given one also. (Both Alex and Leona's weren't made official until February before someone starts saying if it hasn't been offered now it won't be...)

From what I can tell based on sales I've read on Wikipedia and other sites Alexandra seems to be achieving similar sales with 'Overcome' to the ones that Shayne earned with his self-titled debut album and his sophomore album 'Breathless'...

So do you think that Shayne would have been offered a US deal also had he come after Leona? And a more interesting one for anyone who wishes to discuss it. Would Alex have been given the opportunity she has been had she won the X Factor pre-Leona?

(Please don't make this an ALEX vs LEONA thread )

Pre-Leona, Alexandra probably wouldn't have unless her sopohmore album did well.

Post-Leona, I could Shayne as possibly getting one as he has the right image.

This is a fascinating question because Simon only seems interested in acts that he can seel to the states, where the real money is.

The question sort of falls between two current topics. This 'who would get a deal' type of questions and the 'who is the better manager' type of question.

Winning the X Factor must be a dream come true but the realisation that if you can't sell in the states, you're not the golden child must be harrowing.

JLS and Jedward may be taking a huge sigh of relief. Ruth and Diana will be interesting.

Ruth and Diana? They are no way associated with Simon still are they?

Also do you think Shayne would have been given the opportunity had he come after Leona Tumblin?

Ruth and Diana are with Modest and with Sony.

The question about Shayne is a very good one. I still after all this time I am still not completely sure why he didn't do better, or more.

After Leona, to me he is the most credible 'winning' recording artist the show has produced (there are some none winners who are more credible). He has the voice, the looks, the charisma. the comparison with Justin Timberlake was a bit obvious but to be far to Shayne, he does have something pretty special.

I have three suggestions why Shayne didn't do better:

1) Leona came one year later and completely mesmerised Simon to the point where Shayne and maybe other Syco acts just wne tunnoticed for a while. She was a little bit special!

2) I wondered if there was a lack of ambition on his part. I have no idea really, just thinking out loud. What has he been doing for the last couple of years?

3) Simon does mainstream pop. Shayne os not mainstream pop. There os a mismatch and they don't quite see eye to eye.

I really like Shayne. He is the only winner that I have thought from the moment he appeared in the live shows that he would undoubtedly win and I would love to see him bounce back with a killer album.

Re your final question. I would not have wanted to be the act that won the year afer Leona.

Diana yes but Ruth is with Virgin/EMI.

Ah I see! Thanks for letting me know... I thought Diana was with a smaller label

I quite liked Shayne also he's my third favourite winner after Joe and Leona (And yes I'm aware you dislike Joe let's not start that discussion again ).

I think of the points you made 1 and 3 are probably the most likely to be true. 1 I would definitely consider to be a factor as even now it is quite clear that Simon considers Leona to be his little 'princess' of the star. Undoubtedly as a result of a) Her talent b) The sales she's gotten him and c) The time they had to bond on the show and since.

...............

Haha I wouldn't have wanted to come straight after Leona either. Poor Leon . But if he had won Alex's year when the hype had died down enough for Alex to be offered one... Do you think Shayne would have been given the same opportunity?

I like Joe. Please please try and get your facts right.

The Joe fans jump down my throat on a regular basis and are very personal in their attacks on me. That is because they have an agenda which I don't

I don't rate him as a recording artist and I am concerned about his lack of activity. I think he is a lovely bloke and wish him well.

Please do not confuse me with the haters. I post because I think, not because I hate.

HAd Shayne won in December 2009, I suspect he would have had a significantly better chance woth Simon than he did four years ago.

Fair enough... I guess I just got the impression that you disliked him from the posts I percieved as negative from you. I'm sorry I got it wrong!

No worries. I realise I am all but unique in here at the moment. I think. I investigate. I conclude and I post.

Most folk don't. The many Danyl, Olly and Loe fans that don't appreciate or don't know how to deal with a non hater just attack me.

Sad really.

I like to think that I'm capable of the same... I've looked into the past routines of successful winners such as Leona and Alex to see whether or not I should be worried about his current lack of activity.

I found both did very little with the exception of the odd gig here or there before the tour, and their US deals weren't announced until February. Joe has so far done two gigs a similar amount to those two I previously mentioned and of course it's not February yet.

On this particular topic, I'm not sure comparing Joe's current lack of activity with the equivant period for Leona and Alexandra and saying ' well they did it, so that's ok' justifies the lack of activity or helps Joe in any way.

I beleive Joe could have a good career in music. I don't for a moment see him as a recording artist. If I were him, having won the X Factor I would want to be out there gigging every single night. This is his time. Instead, he is on a ski lift with Hilda or sat at home tweeting that he has the flu. I would be asking my management team why I wasn't working, like Jedward.

There have been few success stories from the X Factor. At the moment, Leona is the biggest by some way. Alexandra could go either way. Look at the albums sales and remember, Simon is only really interested in taking his acts to the states, Alexandra could be in trouble.

I don't think Joe is up to Leona's high standard and he also falls short of Alexandra. He must keep his profile high.

Posted By Tumblin Dice
No worries. I realise I am all but unique in here at the moment. I think. I investigate. I conclude and I post

Having seen lots of your posts, I was beginning to think you were a bit of an enigma, I understand your position a lot better from that.

I'm a huge Joe fan but I do share your concerns about his possible viability as a pop act. He is still very young ( he's the same age as my kids and their friends) and to be handed this contract with all it's associated pressures is immense. However from where I am - I feel he has such huge potential if given the right material, he can pretty much sing anything and make it sound good, sometimes better than the original. Even people who were posting against him would add he's a good singer but..., or I'd go and see him in the west end but wouldn't buy his music... ( I'd do both by the way ).

Rhydian had a beautiful voice, but possibly not middle of the road enough, the same with Leona, beautiful voice but
sometimes too much waivering and high pitch which some people find too much for every day. I like both of these artists and have bought their music... but with both of these artists I waited till I had heard tracks for their album, and made decisions based on that.

Joe impressed me throughout the show, music I did know, music I didn't know that well - he just did brilliantly, and I would buy his music as soon as I knew it was available. My daughter (18) thinks he's fantastic, my son (17 ) RATM supporter and all that - has Joe's tracks on his ipod, even my husband who hates x factor and all the rest - recognised he has a good voice ( without prompting, just walking through ) with Olly singing - it was why are you listening to all this...****..

So I'm really hopeful that Joe has success for really selfish reasons - I love his voice.

Back to Shayne - If he was Alex's year he probably would have got attention from the US market, very marketable singer IMO.

Alexandra Burke is nothing special and if it wasnt for Leona, i doubt she would have been offered a US deal! Leona was post Shayne, yes, but it was her material that got her noticed in America, the fact she was on the XFactor had nothing to do with her success! America has only just taken an interest into the XFactor because of Leona. As for Shayne he didnt break America because his material wasnt good enough. His songs sucked to put it mildly! If Rydian had won, i think Simon would have took him over to the states, IL DIVO were popular there, so as another winner, Simon would have wanted to try him over there too!!

Ha ha ha!

Ha ha ha!

Ha ha ha!



I'm so sorry. That just really cracked me up.

It's nothing to do with material. Leona got good material because of her US deal with Clive Davis. He signed her up because he liked what he saw from her on The X Factor.

IIRC, Alexandra got a US recording contract thanks to Beyonce.

Alexandra got a US record deal because she impressed Beyonce, and she told her A&R people in America to go scout her out. What Leona got previously, as it turns out, had little to do with anything in regards to Alex's own situation.

Simon Cowell, for all his power, can't just snap his fingers and get any act an American recording contract. You have to impress the power players in America. If Simon could get a US contract for any winner, he'd have got one for Joe already. And according to Simon in one interview, he made an attempt to get a US contract for Shayne, but couldn't generate enough interest.

If Shayne won after Leona, I still don't think he'd get a US recording contract. Leona got hers by impressing Clive Davis. Alex got hers by impressing Beyonce Knowles. As far as I know, Shayne didn't impress any big hitters in the American recording industry, who had the power to help him get signed.

If Shayne was in Alex's year, I honestly can't see Beyonce breaking her back to help him secure a US contract.

edit: I realise the OP said Joe might still get a US contract, but I really cannot see it at the moment. Simon will have to be working overtime to convince a major label in America to take on Joe, and if he couldn't manage it for the much more marketable Shayne, I can't see it happening for Joe. But anything is possible, I guess...

You are very naive

IMO Joe lies between Leona and Alexandra i.e He's not as vocally strong as Leona (though I prefer him), but he's much better than Alexandra when given the right material as was shown on multiple occasions throughout his time on the X factor.

Also you have to remember with the press releases that are likely to come as Joe starts working on his album, the tour dates he'll be performing in which are more than ever. He'll certainly be in the public eye alot this year... So why not take a few weeks off to enjoy the holiday.

Also he's had the cold for the last week or two... Do you really think it's a good idea for him to start his career sniffing at gigs and singing completely out of tune due to a flu. Especially when he is one of those acts who is liked for their voice rather than the so called entertainment factor?


Ooh I never knew that it was Beyonce who arranged for Alex to be signed over in America! Very interesting!

Leona getting a US deal had very little to do with Alex getting her deal as it seems Simon was not the one who secured it for her. In fact Simon tried hard to get a US deal for Shayne after he won but there was no interest. I doubt there would have been any even if he had won after Leona did. Since Leona has won 3 other acts have won and so far only 1 has secured a US deal ( we must wait and see for Joe). It doesnt mean now that every winner will get a US deal because Leona got one.

Future winners may not sign to a "US label" as it seems that Syco are about to start operating in the US.

Disagree. Rhydian would be ideal to market to the states but Simon hasn't bothered.

Wasted opportunity by Simon/Syco

For all the hype and promotion spent on Leona Lewis breaking the US her 2nd album has sold around a mere
156k copies there at the last count. They must surely be out of pocket on those sales. So Is it really worth it?

I think Joe seems like the sort of person who Clive Davis would sign to his label, tbh. Good singer, harmless, aimed at (mostly) young girls and older women. Plus, Clive and Whitney were impressed with Joe.