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What right has Emma Bunton to judge an ice skating competition?


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Old 17-01-2010, 23:11
thenetworkbabe
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The above discussion about the standard of the celebs' basic skating is interesting if somewhat off-topic .

This is where a good companion show would come into its own; what do the celebs spend their time doing in the very early stages? If they have 6 weeks of basic training before the first show (or however long they have got) then how much of that time is spent simply learning the basic skating moves and how early do they start adding lifts and other more flashy moves to the mix? By the look of some of the celebs in the first show (in all series not just this one) it does look as if they haven't put enough effort into learning the basics as they are clinging on for dear life and look as if any attempt to launch out on their own will result in a Titanic scale disaster.

However, we don't know that they haven't been focused on the basics for most of the time. They might just not be very good at it. Perhaps all the celebs should have to do a basic skate routine before they do anything else where they have to skate by themselves for at least a certain percentage of the time and can't simply rely on their partner to tow them round and make them look better than they are. It wouldn't necessarily need to be a judged performance; an extra show to kick off the series show-casing basic skating skills might go some way to ensuring that all the celebs had to develop these skills as there would be nowhere to hide. It might be unworkable but maybe it's worth considering? After all, Bonnie looked like she was missing basic skill in series 1 but as we've seen since, it doesn't look as though this was because she lacked the ability - just simply that she was so good at the aerobatics that it was easier to focus on that and let the basic skating lapse somewhat. A shame really because I think she was potentially the best overall performer in series 1 but she didn't get the chance to show us exactly what she could do.
Which is another problem with the argument that the males have a more difficult time. The females have to do the lifts, get the balances and transitions right and they have to exit and enter them moving from the air to the ice. The good females also tend to do more dance steps, turns and moves on one leg than almost all the males. They also probably act more at most levels of ability. What they don't do so much is skate around in long arcs showing off they can skate or skate at speed. Many males do - though some are effectively led around by their females too. Its true some females are carried around but then its also true that males of the same ability tend to stand still or walk a lot as their female pros do something exciting to make it look as if something is happening.

The underlying problem though is that the show needs something exciting to happen. Most of the male celebs can't do a decent let alone an exciting lift and very few can do spins, turns or jumps. Many males have to skate around a lot because otherwise they wouldn't be doing much at all. The opposite happens to the females. They seem to be given lifts and routines that are made up of successive lifts because someone has to do something exciting and the female pros can't do lifts on their own.

The result is what we see. Bonnie was capable of skating fast on her own, jumping and turning but she ended up doing more and more difficult lifts. Roxy got lifts she couldn't do when concentrating on her skating and acting might have been better. Emily A got a routine that had too many lifts. Even a couple of the boys tonight had lifts that were too difficult for this early on. Sinitta was the ultimate victim as she was given a lift she only could do 11% of the time and was thrown out because she couldn't do it.

The bottom line I think is that the viewers need to be aware that they are skating or lifting or whatever because someone told them to do that - not because they decided to do that . Meanwhile, the people behind the show need to encourage them to do the exciting lifts - but not ones they can't do or before they have done the essentials. Thats what Robin might have been getting at. At the moment it looks like someone is sitting there with a target number of wow moments per show and they are being pushed out to whoever is nearest to be being able to do them - Roxy had to do what Zoe and Jessica are too tall to do and Sinitta got the big week one lift because Daniella had one, Hayley had a painful rib and no one else could do one....
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Old 17-01-2010, 23:37
fredsnail
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Emma more right to be there than Jason Coleman - she can skate a little and he can't skate at all.
Who's Jason Coleman?

Emma needs to prove that she has a right to be there as a judge. Last week she was passable with her comments.

This week she was appalling - I don't care whether she found x, y or z gorgeous etc - I want to know what she thought of their performance as that is why she was put on the panel. There was very little constructive criticism in her comments this week - nothing that people could go away and work on. Very similar to Ruthie's comments to Roxanne last year "you just don't do it for me".

She was far too over excited this week - and they went to her far too often. The other judges (with the exception of Jason) have been vastly underused the past 2 weeks.

If she doesn't improve next week then she will only have herself to blame when the flack starts.
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Old 18-01-2010, 09:47
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Fair enough Emma said when it came to passing a judgement on Bobby Davro that it is a skating competition and not a comedy competition. She was right and I'm glad Bobby Davro went as he deserved to.
What I didn't like was Emma saying that the girls last week weren't as good as the boys last night. I though the girls were way better than the boys last night. To be honest last night I found the whole competition pretty boring where last week I had throughly loved it.
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Old 18-01-2010, 11:55
buffbronze
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To be honest there isn't much technical skating though is there?


LMAO..so true...Emma is hardly there to judge olympic skaker's techniques.

Emma has every right to be there...she knows how to entertain..she gave great comments and she was FUN! There are three other skaking judges there to balance it out. I think they finally have the right 5 judges.
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Old 18-01-2010, 12:56
igotmy9milli
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She's a likeable person, who I think is a good addition to the show. She's hot too.
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Old 18-01-2010, 13:28
spendleb
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Must admit, she has never really bothered me, seems nice enough but I really dislike her on this!
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Old 19-01-2010, 02:05
BlueSpike
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Hmm. Do any of the judges have a background in ice dancing, as opposed to figure skating. At this point, I don't remember.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Barber
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Slater

They were an ice dance couple and competed around the same time as Torvil and Dean. Robin Cousins is the only free skater.
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Old 19-01-2010, 12:03
icedragon
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Barber
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Slater

They were an ice dance couple and competed around the same time as Torvil and Dean. Robin Cousins is the only free skater.
Robin was originally a free skater but he has also had many years of experience of 'show skating' which is essentially what Dancing on Ice is, which is why I like hearing his comments the most.
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Old 20-01-2010, 16:06
cnbcwatcher
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Strange question indeed. Why should Jason Gardiner (sp?) be judging an ice-dancing competition?
Because he thinks he knows it all? Does anyone know anything about Jason's background (ie was he a pro skater before etc.) Maybe he's the Simon Cowell of DOI.
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Old 20-01-2010, 17:13
Gooby
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Never mind her qualifications for judging ice dance - what on earth qualified her to wear that terrible outfit!
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Old 22-01-2010, 03:32
Veri
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Which is another problem with the argument that the males have a more difficult time. The females have to do the lifts, get the balances and transitions right and they have to exit and enter them moving from the air to the ice. The good females also tend to do more dance steps, turns and moves on one leg than almost all the males. They also probably act more at most levels of ability. What they don't do so much is skate around in long arcs showing off they can skate or skate at speed. Many males do - though some are effectively led around by their females too. Its true some females are carried around but then its also true that males of the same ability tend to stand still or walk a lot as their female pros do something exciting to make it look as if something is happening.
Coleen Nolan was doing lifts, so how hard can they really be?

"They have to exit and enter them moving from the air to the ice", for example. Well, they're picked up and set down; and when they're set down, they can hold on to, and be held by, their male partner.

Imo, there is something to the popular complaint that a female celeb can just be "carried around by their partner".

This is not to say that a woman can't do a difficult routine, or that female celebs never actually do more difficult routines than male ones in DOI; it's more that the women can get away with doing less than the men.

I'd like to see the women be given a little more skating in their routines, so that it's clear they can skate and aren't just being carried around.

...
The bottom line I think is that the viewers need to be aware that they are skating or lifting or whatever because someone told them to do that - not because they decided to do that . Meanwhile, the people behind the show need to encourage them to do the exciting lifts - but not ones they can't do or before they have done the essentials. Thats what Robin might have been getting at. At the moment it looks like someone is sitting there with a target number of wow moments per show and they are being pushed out to whoever is nearest to be being able to do them - Roxy had to do what Zoe and Jessica are too tall to do and Sinitta got the big week one lift because Daniella had one, Hayley had a painful rib and no one else could do one....
I agree with you there.

Indeed, I think there's something wrong if there's a situation where the judges criticise once of the celebs for doing too many lifts or not putting enough emphasis on skating. If a routine is like that, the celeb should never have been given that routine in the first place. Or else the judges should be told that such routines are perfectly ok.
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Old 22-01-2010, 04:22
tabithakitten
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Coleen Nolan was doing lifts, so how hard can they really be?

"They have to exit and enter them moving from the air to the ice", for example. Well, they're picked up and set down; and when they're set down, they can hold on to, and be held by, their male partner.

Imo, there is something to the popular complaint that a female celeb can just be "carried around by their partner".

This is not to say that a woman can't do a difficult routine, or that female celebs never actually do more difficult routines than male ones in DOI; it's more that the women can get away with doing less than the men.

I'd like to see the women be given a little more skating in their routines, so that it's clear they can skate and aren't just being carried around.


I agree with you there.

Indeed, I think there's something wrong if there's a situation where the judges criticise once of the celebs for doing too many lifts or not putting enough emphasis on skating. If a routine is like that, the celeb should never have been given that routine in the first place. Or else the judges should be told that such routines are perfectly ok.
It becomes very fudged though as to what is perfectly ok. Obviously, some aerial moves/lifts etc are more difficult than others and, therefore, become reasonable as part of a later routine. However, the fact that they are a reasonable inclusion isn't necessarily going to make a difference with the public who will still see someone like Bonnie doing said lifts as a "Wow, tell us something we don't know" skill and even someone like Clare as "She's already shown us something like that - that's not showing us progression we can see".

I do think we need to see every celeb doing a fair bit of basic skating in the first few weeks. Sack the supposed idea that we need to see exciting moves. I'm not absolutely sure that's true. I think if we saw more of all the celebs actually moving round unsupported on the ice that'd be exciting moves. Let the first couple of weeks be more basic and let us see that the bu**ers can actually skate a bit! Then at least when the females start doing the aerial tricks, we know which of them are adding to a basic skating skill and which are disguising a lack of it.
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Old 23-01-2010, 00:07
Georgiecats
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She probably had ice in her drink once.

What does it matter? She's obviously just there to add a bit of fluff to the panel - as it would be a bit dry with Nicky, Jason & Robin.

They have to have a 4th judge who doesn't need to know anything about anything really as long as they can speak.
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Old 23-01-2010, 00:08
Georgiecats
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Because he thinks he knows it all? Does anyone know anything about Jason's background (ie was he a pro skater before etc.) Maybe he's the Simon Cowell of DOI.
Isn't he a choreographer? He's there to judge the entertainment/artistic content not the technical ice skating moves.
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Old 24-01-2010, 22:49
Patti
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Does anyone know anything about Jason's background (ie was he a pro skater before etc.) Maybe he's the Simon Cowell of DOI.
He trained as a dancer and has been in a lot of musicals. Now he's mainly a choreographer and theatre producer.
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Old 26-01-2010, 14:46
Peter E
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She's a likeable person, who I think is a good addition to the show. She's hot too.
Coudln't ahve put it better myself. I like Emma and think she's doing a great job.
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Old 26-01-2010, 20:37
marianner
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She's judging their performances so not really their skills so I thin kthat's fair.
She gives good comments I think, straight to the point.
I have to say I really liked her gold painted nails!
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Old 26-01-2010, 20:52
TraceyUK
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Emma wouldnt have been my first choice BUT so far I'm actaully liking her and her comments up till now have been constructive and in a nice way unlike Jason BUT I do mostly like Jason too.
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Old 27-01-2010, 07:10
Stewie_C
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Disliked her intensely on SCD due to judges favouritism and overmarking of mediorcre routines, but despite my prejuduce against her, she is doing OK on the panel. Better than Ruthie certainly.

The make up of the DOI panel has always been the best for me. The mix of skating background, choreographer and lay person works better than SCD panel and the Y-factor panel.

I think she'll settle down a bit. So far her criticisms and comments have been OK. The lay person on any panel in real life as well as reality TV is often there to provide a different viewpoint to broaden the views within the panel, and therefore doesn't neet to have any specific qualifications. In the case of reality TV, I'd suggest all she needs to have as a lay person is a fan base, and is likely to draw in viewers either by controversy or by people liking her and wanting to see what she says (or preferaby both). You don't NEED 5 ice scaters on the panel. If you need to have that many, then why not go for 9??? The mix of the panel works very well, and she's doing a good job - even though I can't stick her and she would most certainly not have been my first choice.
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Old 27-01-2010, 11:15
Nailz
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Can Emma Bunton even skate ?
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Old 07-03-2010, 20:02
boldjohn
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None at all, but she's an ex Spice Girl. That's why she's picked and that's why I don't watch these cheesy programmes.
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Old 07-03-2010, 20:17
rickster1995
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why are you posting on this forum then !
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Old 07-03-2010, 20:49
Sparklyblue171
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None at all, but she's an ex Spice Girl. That's why she's picked and that's why I don't watch these cheesy programmes.
Yet you have the time to post about this cheesy programme on a forum
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Old 07-03-2010, 22:30
Ethereal
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I really like Emma. We don't need another skating judge. Karen, Nicky and Robin cover that area just fine so what would be the point of having another? I think her comments are usually spot on despite her having less credentials than the others. She's a massive improvement on Ruthie Henshall that's for sure.

The make up of the DOI panel has always been the best for me. The mix of skating background, choreographer and lay person works better than SCD panel and the Y-factor panel.
Agree completely.
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Old 07-03-2010, 22:50
Tiger Rose
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Emma is crap and she brings nothing to the party.

Thankfully we are not going to have to put up with her on tour.
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