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Heath Ledger and Micheal Jackson are the same


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Old 18-01-2010, 23:57
jay2009
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They’re both dead, there both up for an award (which Heath won), and we all know M.J will win Brits Performance of 30th Year.

I said it about Ledger, I'll say it about Jackson, I'll say it about anyone, Dead people should not even be able to be nominated for awards unless they die from the day their nominated to the day of the awards .
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Old 19-01-2010, 00:01
iain
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that doesn't really make sense.

you're basically saying that Ledger shouldn't have been nominated for an Oscar because he died.

but he would have been eligible if he hadn't died.

even though it was for the same performance.

i think the reason Heath did win was largely down to his actual amazing performance.

and i'm not really an MJ fan, but i don't think anyone could begrudge him the odd posthumous award for his enormous contribution to pop music.

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Old 19-01-2010, 00:13
misslibertine
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Why? Their performance/work that they're nominated for doesn't change when they die.

Does dying make them less worthy of winning?
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Old 19-01-2010, 00:14
jay2009
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To answer you.
that doesn't really make sense.

You’re basically saying that Ledger shouldn't have been nominated for an Oscar because he died.

But he would have been eligible if he hadn't died.

Even though it was for the same performance.

Yes I am, I say this because he has know knowledge if it, can get no pleasure out of it. Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted he won, fully deserved it, but considering he died before the nominations even took place, I don't think he should have been included for the reasons outlined above, he'd be able to take no kind of enjoyment out of it and wouldn't know anything about it, we can't even really, judging by the performances say this wasn't a foregone conclusion that he'd win (alive or dead).

i think the reason Heath did win was largely down to his actual amazing performance.

As I said, fully agree he should have won, but only if he was alive at, atleast the day of the nominations.

and i'm not really an MJ fan, but i don't think anyone could begrudge him the odd posthumous award for his enormous contribution to pop music.

Disagree.
Iain
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Old 19-01-2010, 00:25
misslibertine
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I'm so confused by what you mean.

Why does someone only deserve an award if they are able to acknowledge that fact?
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Old 19-01-2010, 00:28
jay2009
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Because they'll never know they've won it.
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Old 19-01-2010, 00:31
misslibertine
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Because they'll never know they've won it.
So? That doesn't mean they're not deserving of it.

The rest of the world can still acknowledge the person's achievements.
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Old 19-01-2010, 00:37
darkjedimaster
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The thread title is a little misleading. The oscar nomination is the only thing that is the same about them. Ledger wasn't a moonwalking plastic nonce.
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Old 19-01-2010, 00:39
misslibertine
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The thread title is a little misleading. The oscar nomination is the only thing that is the same about them. Ledger wasn't a moonwalking plastic nonce.
I admit I did think there would be more than one similarity listed with a title like that.
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Old 19-01-2010, 00:50
jay2009
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True but the hole point of an award is:

An award is something given to a person or a group of people to recognize excellence in a certain field; a certificate of excellence. Awards are often signified by trophies, titles, certificates, commemorative plaques, medals, badges, pins, or ribbons.

There are other people that could have recieved the award Heath recieved and gotten they enjoyment he should still, to this day have.

Please don't get me wrong, I really do think Heath should have gotten the award and you could have put a winning bet on it, but being dead who's going to enjoy it, if you do the work, you get the rewards. Heath did the work, but sadly couldn't have gotten the rewards. Other people did the work, but due to Heath being aloud in, so to speak, they couldn't have won the award, they didn't have a hope. Same would have happened if he'd been alive.

The oscar nomination is the only thing that is the same about them. That's what I'm talking about.
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Old 19-01-2010, 00:57
xx~KC~xx
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True but the hole point of an award is:

An award is something given to a person or a group of people to recognize excellence in a certain field; a certificate of excellence. Awards are often signified by trophies, titles, certificates, commemorative plaques, medals, badges, pins, or ribbons.

There are other people that could have recieved the award Heath recieved and gotten they enjoyment he should still, to this day have.

Please don't get me wrong, I really do think Heath should have gotten the award and you could have put a winning bet on it, but being dead who's going to enjoy it, if you do the work, you get the rewards. Heath did the work, but sadly couldn't have gotten the rewards. Other people did the work, but due to Heath being aloud in, so to speak, they couldn't have won the award, they didn't have a hope. Same would have happened if he'd been alive.

The oscar nomination is the only thing that is the same about them. That's what I'm talking about.
So someone less worthy should win just because they are alive?
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Old 19-01-2010, 01:01
misslibertine
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True but the hole point of an award is:

An award is something given to a person or a group of people to recognize excellence in a certain field; a certificate of excellence. Awards are often signified by trophies, titles, certificates, commemorative plaques, medals, badges, pins, or ribbons.

There are other people that could have recieved the award Heath recieved and gotten they enjoyment he should still, to this day have.

Please don't get me wrong, I really do think Heath should have gotten the award and you could have put a winning bet on it, but being dead who's going to enjoy it, if you do the work, you get the rewards. Heath did the work, but sadly couldn't have gotten the rewards. Other people did the work, but due to Heath being aloud in, so to speak, they couldn't have won the award, they didn't have a hope. Same would have happened if he'd been alive.

The oscar nomination is the only thing that is the same about them. That's what I'm talking about.
His reward was the rest of the world knowing he did some amazing work and was supremely talented.

Most people, people of the arts especially, don't do the work they do solely so they can feel good about themselves and self-congratulate - Heath's award recognises that his work, while he was alive, was incredible and (judging by the fact he won the award) he could have continued to show his talent throughout a long and celebrated career, which makes his passing even more tragic.

Whether he knows about it or not, it was a very positive thing and completely appropriate in my book.
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Old 19-01-2010, 02:26
If_U_Seek_Amy
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So what about an actor or actress or singer who really doesn't care about being given awards??? Like Tilda Swinton who gave her Oscar to her agent, should she not be nominated any more because another actress will get the enjoyment from winning that Tilda doesn't!!!
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Old 19-01-2010, 07:31
musicdude
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I don't see how they are the same at all

All i can say i have major respect for Heath more then i ever did for Jacko. And i'm leaving my comment at that.
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Old 19-01-2010, 12:30
jay2009
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His reward was the rest of the world knowing he did some amazing work and was supremely talented.

Most people, people of the arts especially, don't do the work they do solely so they can feel good about themselves and self-congratulate - Heath's award recognises that his work, while he was alive, was incredible and (judging by the fact he won the award) he could have continued to show his talent throughout a long and celebrated career, which makes his passing even more tragic.

I hear what you're saying, and fully agree, had he still been alive today, he'd won many more awards already, all I'm trying to say is yes, he was great, as was M.J (who I'm not a real fan). but their gone, their legacy will always live on, but the nominations for awards deprives someone, who let's say never gets nominated again/does not win any other awards the chance of winning.

How would you feel if you were odds on favourite to win an award, any award, and another greatly talented person died and they won the award?

that's not 'strictly' true in this case, but do you really know any famous people that come on here?
Maybe you are, or one day will be a famous person, who knows.

I don't think other people who are alive should have to forfeit the chance of winning an award because someone's died who's up for the same award. I'm so confident M.J (forfeiting the rest of the acts chances, so they may as well not bother going unless their singing, or have a chance at another award) will win. But if he doesn't I'll donate £500 to charity.
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Old 22-01-2010, 00:33
misslibertine
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How would you feel if you were odds on favourite to win an award, any award, and another greatly talented person died and they won the award?

that's not 'strictly' true in this case, but do you really know any famous people that come on here?
Maybe you are, or one day will be a famous person, who knows.

I don't think other people who are alive should have to forfeit the chance of winning an award because someone's died who's up for the same award. I'm so confident M.J (forfeiting the rest of the acts chances, so they may as well not bother going unless their singing, or have a chance at another award) will win. But if he doesn't I'll donate £500 to charity.
I really can't see where you're going with the first part... at all. Why does it matter if "famous people ... come on here?"

Seeing as you made it personal, if I was (in some fantasy scenario) up for an award and I lost out to someone who had died - my feelings would be no different than if someone still alive had won, I'd be happy for them and respect the fact that they had won. Anything else would be extremely juvenile and that's not how I act. Besides, who can say that they wouldn't have won the award if they were still alive?

Someone is no more worthy of an award just because they happen to still be alive By that logic, Sinatra or Lennon would not be worthy of any awards but some prize tool like Robbie Williams can scoop as many as he wants just because he hasn't died yet?!?!

Heath didn't win BECAUSE he died, he won because he deserved to. His untimely passing was extremely sad but he wasn't given the award because of it, it was for what he did while he was alive - his winning performance was extraordinary and I don't doubt he would have won even if he hadn't died. I'm sure that, if asked, whichever actors were in the running against him wouldn't begrudge him the award, like you seem to be.
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Old 22-01-2010, 04:08
Tigerpaws
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His reward was the rest of the world knowing he did some amazing work and was supremely talented.

Most people, people of the arts especially, don't do the work they do solely so they can feel good about themselves and self-congratulate - Heath's award recognises that his work, while he was alive, was incredible and (judging by the fact he won the award) he could have continued to show his talent throughout a long and celebrated career, which makes his passing even more tragic.

I hear what you're saying, and fully agree, had he still been alive today, he'd won many more awards already, all I'm trying to say is yes, he was great, as was M.J (who I'm not a real fan). but their gone, their legacy will always live on, but the nominations for awards deprives someone, who let's say never gets nominated again/does not win any other awards the chance of winning.

How would you feel if you were odds on favourite to win an award, any award, and another greatly talented person died and they won the award?

that's not 'strictly' true in this case, but do you really know any famous people that come on here?
Maybe you are, or one day will be a famous person, who knows.

I don't think other people who are alive should have to forfeit the chance of winning an award because someone's died who's up for the same award. I'm so confident M.J (forfeiting the rest of the acts chances, so they may as well not bother going unless their singing, or have a chance at another award) will win. But if he doesn't I'll donate £500 to charity.
What about his family and his daughter do you not think it will be an incredibly special for them to know their son/father was so good at what he did he won an oscar?

BTW James Dean was nominated for 2 Posthumous Best Actoring Oscars for East of Eden in 1955 and Giant in 1956, he won neither they went to Ernest Borginine and Yul Bryner.
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Old 22-01-2010, 18:23
fancyfirefoot
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Heath Ledger's Oscar win was thoroughly deserved. There was talk of him being nominated for an Oscar for his portrayal of The Joker way back in 2007, months before his tragic Death on January 22nd, 2008.
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Old 25-01-2010, 14:34
darakinss
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The thread title is a little misleading. The oscar nomination is the only thing that is the same about them. Ledger wasn't a moonwalking plastic nonce.
neither was MJ. He was innocent
Whatever you think of him no one can deny the enormous contributions he made to music, and i think their achievements should still be acknowledged whether theyre alive or dead
x
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Old 25-01-2010, 18:51
misslibertine
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neither was MJ. He was innocent
Whatever you think of him no one can deny the enormous contributions he made to music, and i think their achievements should still be acknowledged whether theyre alive or dead
x
Well... he was plastic
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Old 25-01-2010, 19:08
bob187
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Well... he was plastic
...And he Moonwalked!
Statistically, it's reasonable to assume that the 3rd statement was also true....
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Old 25-01-2010, 19:14
lil_boo
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to be fair, if MJ wins the brits performance thing, I'll bet it will have a lot to do with jarvis cocker storming the stage and flashing his backside than the actual performance, so technically, you could say the award would go to jarvis cocker.... :P
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Old 25-01-2010, 19:29
misslibertine
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to be fair, if MJ wins the brits performance thing, I'll bet it will have a lot to do with jarvis cocker storming the stage and flashing his backside than the actual performance, so technically, you could say the award would go to jarvis cocker.... :P
When there was a "Brits Prediction" thread, I made it very clear that was the only reason I picked that performance as my favourite! If only it wins, and Jarv comes along to collect it...
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