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New PVRs at Argos |
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#576 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 2,103
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T7650 hard drive swapping
Can't remember if it has been discussed already or not, but just as with the SD models, you can swap the hard drive from one T7650 unit to another without losing the library contents. Comes in handy if your T7650 main board dies (my second died yesterday) as you can take the drive out and put it in a working unit. Unfortunately, I've yet to find anything on the PC which will allow files to be copied off the drive - all the tools that I used for the SD models are unable to read the drive, although you can transfer recordings over a network by telneting into the T7650 and using ftpput and ftpget, for example.
I was relieved that swapping the drive worked - I don't think you can swap into other models though. In the past I tried swapping drives between T7655 Amber and Emerald boxes, only to lose the drive content of both drives completely. Regarding the failure of my 3 year old T7650 main board, the symptoms started a few months back occasionally finding the box frozen with green light on (was never sure if it froze while booting or shutting down). I immediately suspected the hard drive was on the way out. Last night it refused to boot properly saying disk initialisation failed or the drive needed to be formatted, so I thought the drive had died. After extensive testing I discovered the drive worked fine, but the T7650 main board could no longer read any hard drive with lots of errors in the serial debug log - the SATA interface appears to be broken somehow
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#577 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Wirral
Posts: 286
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I know it's a bit like asking how long is a piece of string but what would you normally expect the serviceable life of a pvr to be?
On another note, do you know if there has been any progress on a software update for the 7650 to fix the audio issue? Cheers Tom |
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#578 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 2,103
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Quote:
I know it's a bit like asking how long is a piece of string but what would you normally expect the serviceable life of a pvr to be?
On another note, do you know if there has been any progress on a software update for the 7650 to fix the audio issue? I do keep chasing the T7650 update - I'm getting nowhere fast, unfortunately. In particular, I had to watch some HD recordings on mine recently and the audio problem was extremely annoying. I have not seen a fix for this yet on anything other than the T7655 Emerald. If they are not going to develop the software any further, I'm pushing to at least allow me to make the latest development version available to download. |
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#579 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: CZ
Posts: 9
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"decay" on a SATA port? Based on my experience with PC hardware (including embedded/industrial), that doesn't sound very likely. SATA is just two signal pairs, the bus transceivers are nowhere near overloaded... typically it either just works or is just dead
The parallel IDE cables were much more prone to "CRC errors" (still pretty rare). These errors tend to be logged in SMART. Have you tried replacing the SATA cable? Cable and connector contacts would be my obvious suspects. On par with the cable, I would look for blooming elyt capacitors. Unfortunately MLCC ceramic caps are not as reliable as they once were, either... and unfortunately, multiple power rails are in play: a 3.5" SATA disk drive requires +5V for signal electronics (2.5" use it for the motor as well), optionally there's a 3.3V lead in SATA power, or it could be the rail powering the SATA transceiver (my guess is 3.3V on the motherboard). Also, it would be interesting to know what CPU (SoC) is used on the motherboard and whether it has a native SATA transceiver, or is using an external SATA chip (PCI, PCI-e or IDE/SATA). Or it could be excessive EMI from just any power rail in the system, fed by a switch-mode converter - again I would look at the 3.3V output from the mains PSU, as I would expect that to carry the highest current (12V PC-style "point-of-load buck" power distribution not being as ubiquitous in consumer electronics) and hence being the obvious suspect as respects elyt cap venting... |
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#580 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SW London, Crystal Palace Tx
Posts: 2,769
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Quote:
I do keep chasing the T7650 update... ... I had to watch some HD recordings on mine recently and the audio problem was extremely annoying.
Thank you for all you do on the Vestel front, Futaura. I'm burbling, trying to get around to asking exactly which of the Argos models is a recommended T7655 - I feel embarrassed that I can't work it out for myself, despite following this thread religiously. I want to be ready "just in case". ==== Incidentally, I have set Murder Shift to series-record on Quest Saturday nights - it always fails. I did a factory reset (as a result of advice on here) and I think it recorded the next instance but has since failed again. Is Quest the problem? I never use series-record on CBS Reality or TruTV, as if I do I keep getting a pop-up "This program has already been set", something like that, no matter what I have on the screen. |
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#581 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 2,103
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Quote:
"decay" on a SATA port? Based on my experience with PC hardware (including embedded/industrial), that doesn't sound very likely. SATA is just two signal pairs, the bus transceivers are nowhere near overloaded... typically it either just works or is just dead
The parallel IDE cables were much more prone to "CRC errors" (still pretty rare). These errors tend to be logged in SMART. Have you tried replacing the SATA cable? Cable and connector contacts would be my obvious suspects. On par with the cable, I would look for blooming elyt capacitors. Unfortunately MLCC ceramic caps are not as reliable as they once were, either... and unfortunately, multiple power rails are in play: a 3.5" SATA disk drive requires +5V for signal electronics (2.5" use it for the motor as well), optionally there's a 3.3V lead in SATA power, or it could be the rail powering the SATA transceiver (my guess is 3.3V on the motherboard). Also, it would be interesting to know what CPU (SoC) is used on the motherboard and whether it has a native SATA transceiver, or is using an external SATA chip (PCI, PCI-e or IDE/SATA). Or it could be excessive EMI from just any power rail in the system, fed by a switch-mode converter - again I would look at the 3.3V output from the mains PSU, as I would expect that to carry the highest current (12V PC-style "point-of-load buck" power distribution not being as ubiquitous in consumer electronics) and hence being the obvious suspect as respects elyt cap venting... |
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#582 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 2,103
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Quote:
I don't have an audio problem on my T7650, as far as I know
Thank you for all you do on the Vestel front, Futaura. I'm burbling, trying to get around to asking exactly which of the Argos models is a recommended T7655 - I feel embarrassed that I can't work it out for myself, despite following this thread religiously. I want to be ready "just in case". ==== Incidentally, I have set Murder Shift to series-record on Quest Saturday nights - it always fails. I did a factory reset (as a result of advice on here) and I think it recorded the next instance but has since failed again. Is Quest the problem? I never use series-record on CBS Reality or TruTV, as if I do I keep getting a pop-up "This program has already been set", something like that, no matter what I have on the screen. I have set up a timer for Murder Shift and shall monitor it. I never did get to the bottom of the Under the Dome failures, although I would assume it was an error in the broadcast EIT, because after 3 weeks of failures, it suddenly started working again. Don't feel embarrassed about the Argos T7655 models - it is Argos who should be embarrassed. I still don't really know the difference between the two "different" Bush boxes. In fact, after reading various comments from customers, they could well be exactly the same - I think they all have the Emerald software now, as do the Hitachi models. The cheapest being £70 currently. Although the £35 (320Gb) and £40 (500Gb) customer returns on eBay are worth considering (search for B320DTR or B500DTR - avoid the slightly cheaper B320PVR and B500PVR). |
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#583 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SW London, Crystal Palace Tx
Posts: 2,769
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Thank you, Futaura, noted
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#584 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: CZ
Posts: 9
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Quote:
I tried another cable, cleaned the connector and even tried powering the drive independently from the T7650. As soon as I realised it was not the drive at fault, my instant thought was capacitors because the problem got worse over time - unfortunately there are lots and all surface mount with no visible signs of failure. The SoC is a BCM7230 - I presume that handles SATA internally, as the data lines from the SATA port lead directly into the BCM7230 (although there are 6 tiny surface mount devices on the data lines next to the SATA port). The debug logs show SATA is kinda working initially, and it even displays the drive model and serial number, etc, but soon after there are timeouts and bus errors (parity and CRC errors). I shall have to get my multimeter out and check the 3.3v output when I get the chance.
I assume the CPU/SoC is in a BGA package. Another possible culprit is some contacts (balls) of the BGA package developing a cold joint. Possible remedies are DIY oven baking (thermal stress on all the components) or proper reballing of the CPU (demanding on tooling and skills = expensive) ![]() You'd be lucky if there was just a cold between the SATA connector and the PCB... Another trouble is that the SATA signals are so fast that it takes a pretty fast oscilloscope (and an active high-Z probe) to even watch the signals (= to check individual wires for anything obviously wrong). I myself am not up to that... |
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#585 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 2,103
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Quote:
On another note, do you know if there has been any progress on a software update for the 7650 to fix the audio issue?
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#586 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Wirral
Posts: 286
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Quote:
I thought I was imagining it, but posts over at AVForums indicate otherwise - are you still hearing this issue? It seems that there may have been encoder changes at broadcast level which have magicked the issue away earlier this month.
The Mrs is watching a recorded episode of Casualty at the moment so I can't check till later. Cheers Tom |
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#587 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 2,103
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Quote:
To be honest I'll need to listen out for them now as I've tuned them out in my head. Do you know if it's on all channels or just the BBC?
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#588 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Wirral
Posts: 286
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Well I'm impressed.
Just been watching BBC News HD for a good 10 mins now and no sign of a blip or a blop. Whatever "they've" done, I hope it stays that way. Not checked any recordings as yet but if it's a broadcast thing then I'd imagine any issues at the time of the recordings will still be there. Cheers Tom |
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#589 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 2,103
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Quote:
Well I'm impressed.
Just been watching BBC News HD for a good 10 mins now and no sign of a blip or a blop. Whatever "they've" done, I hope it stays that way. Not checked any recordings as yet but if it's a broadcast thing then I'd imagine any issues at the time of the recordings will still be there. .
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#590 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Wirral
Posts: 286
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Indeed
Cheers Tom |
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#591 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 2,103
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Just a quick update regarding my broken T7650 - it is working again now. I think performing a full flash update (kernel, etc) revived it, which leads me to suspect there was some flash corruption of either the kernel, or more likely SATA controller configuration settings. I did also "prod" the SMD components on the SATA data lines, but doubt it would be working 100% reliably if there was a bad solder connection on those.
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#592 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,738
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Quote:
although you can transfer recordings over a network by telneting into the T7650 and using ftpput and ftpget, for example.(
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#593 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 2,103
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Quote:
Is it possible to Telnet into a T7655 emerald? I've tried using PuTTY using port 23 and the IP address of the T655 and failed.
. It appears the telnet service is not running on the Emerald boxes. A portscanner reveals port 23 is not open, unlike on Amber boxes, and I've tried telneting into all open ports with no success, in case the service was assigned to a different port.
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#594 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,738
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Does anyone know if the Bush 1TB recorder currently selling at Argos is a T7655?
I thought it probably was but one of the reviewers then states "Would be ideal if it could record two programmes at once", but then another reviewer describes "grey box/line that moves across the screen but that is just telling you the current time" which to my mind could suggest a description of the Vestel programme guide. |
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#595 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 2,103
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Yes, although the latter also says there is no way to see scheduled recordings, but probably they are expecting a combined library and timer list like some other devices have. I'd say it probably is a T7655, but I personally would advise buying a 500Gb model instead of 1Tb, purely because the more recordings that you have, the slower the library becomes, as does the boot time. Hitachi 500Gb model currently reduced at £99.99 if there is stock anywhere - looks likes Argos are phasing out the Hitachi models in favour of Bush branding. The 1Tb Hitachi has disappeared from the site already which would also point to the Bush 1Tb being its replacement.
BTW, I see Argos have renamed all Freeview Recorders as Set Top Boxes, which is pretty dumb. |
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#596 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Scotland, Dunfermline Area
Posts: 10,699
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Although Argos does sell some cheap make boxes that are ok for some and I have had two Vestel made boxes in the past. One was a Tesco box with Vestel software inside it and other was an Hitachi. Both was pvr and only came with a 320GB hard drive at the time.
If I was to buy another Freeview box for another room I don't think it would be one which had Vestel software in it unless I was buying a cheap HD pvr for a friend. Darren |
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The parallel IDE cables were much more prone to "CRC errors" (still pretty rare). These errors tend to be logged in SMART.