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Van trackers and the Law?


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Old 27-01-2010, 21:35
evesapples131
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A friend of mine works for a company and they use a vechicle tracker on the works van, is she is wondering wheter it's legal or not without consent, she knew it was in place from the start but it's not in her contract and she's never signed a consent form for it. Does anybody know wheter that's legal or not?
Thank you.
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Old 27-01-2010, 21:39
bmillam
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why shouldent it, its the companys van, probably put in it so if its stolen it can be recovered, or perhaps be able to contact the driver at his/her next stop for whatever reason, busses have them,
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Old 27-01-2010, 21:41
Glen
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I see no reason why it would not be legal. A work vehicle is for work purposes and an employer is entitled to know what you are doing whilst being paid to carry out work and what/where their property is/doing.
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Old 27-01-2010, 21:41
kelly82
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i dont see an issue, if she knew from the start and its the companys van, whats the problem? my husbands work van has a tracker, his boss checks sometimes to see how far they have been used over weekends but other than that they are there to keep insurance lower as far as i know.
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Old 27-01-2010, 21:46
evesapples131
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The problem is she's being accused of falsifying time sheets based on what the tracker says, and she HASN'T falsifiyed anything. I'll link you to her post on the Moneysavingexpert:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...tml?p=29293503


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Old 27-01-2010, 21:48
Cruachan
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A friend of mine works for a company and they use a vechicle tracker on the works van, is she is wondering wheter it's legal or not without consent, she knew it was in place from the start but it's not in her contract and she's never signed a consent form for it. Does anybody know wheter that's legal or not?
Thank you.
What's not to be legal? It's a "works" asset and "work" wants to know where it is at any time it chooses to look. Different, perhaps, if the tracking were being done covertly.

Your friend simply has to use the van in line with the conditions imposed by "work".

EDIT: Just saw the post about falsifying time sheets. Well by her own admission she has. Perhaps naively from an administrative convenience point of view but ... it looks like she said she was somewhere when she was not .
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Old 27-01-2010, 21:54
bmillam
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why didnt she just put the hours in that was actualy worked that way she could have blamed the boss if they didnt like the way she was doing it.
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Old 27-01-2010, 21:55
woodbush
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The problem is she's being accused of falsifying time sheets based on what the tracker says, and she HASN'T falsifiyed anything. I'll link you to her post on the Moneysavingexpert:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...tml?p=29293503



So she has amended the timesheets. No excuse really.
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Old 27-01-2010, 21:58
wiggis
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The problem is she's being accused of falsifying time sheets based on what the tracker says, and she HASN'T falsifiyed anything. I'll link you to her post on the Moneysavingexpert:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...tml?p=29293503


I'm sorry, but she wrote :

"I admit that I have been playing swings and roundabouts with the Time Sheets "

At what point does "playing swings and roundabouts" cross over the line into becoming "falsifying"?

Well, if I was paying her wages, it would be right when I was paying for a "swing" and another customer was getting the "roundabout" ...

Accuracy in timesheets is everything.
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Old 27-01-2010, 22:02
fat controller
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The problem is she's being accused of falsifying time sheets based on what the tracker says, and she HASN'T falsifiyed anything. I'll link you to her post on the Moneysavingexpert:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...tml?p=29293503


Reading that, your friend admits to falsifying her time sheets, albeit that her intent was not to defraud (ie, her 'swings and roundabouts' statement where one job would be half hour short and the next half hour over, thus balancing out);

However, I also note toward the end of the post that the evidence provided is for two weeks, and during that two week timeframe there are no instances where she has finished late, in fact only instances where she has finished early. Whilst your friend may well feel that the early finishes were 'balanced out' by late finishes in the weeks prior to the two weeks in question, the employer is only considering the two weeks they have provided evidence for.

The fact that she claimed on her timesheet to have worked more hours than she actually did (during that two week timeframe), may be construed as fraudulent (pecuniary advantage), hence the disciplinary award.
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Old 27-01-2010, 23:54
RUStillDown?
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4.5hrs over a 2 week period

Around 100 hrs per year additional pay

I presume she's paid by the hour based on the estimates in which case if s client consistently takes more / less than the estimate it should be flagged to management.

If travelling to more than 1 client in sny one day however I roils expect this to be included as a separate estimate as it should be paid.
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Old 28-01-2010, 11:02
County Court
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They DO need her permission if the data from the tracker is used to monitor employees whereabouts etc.

It all comes down to what they intend to do with the data and how its processed.

If it just used to recover a stolen vehicle then its different.
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Old 28-01-2010, 11:18
gomezz
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We have trackers in our vans and they can be used to not only highlight unscheduled stops but going out range on the engine revs and braking harshly or leaving the van parked with the engine running (this one is a traffic offence if you leave the vehicle BTW). All of these can be highlighted to the manager and lead to "re-education" or even disciplinary action.

I often swing by my house for a loo break and to make a coffee to put in my travel mug but always make a note of it on my itinerary as I do if I stop for a coffee from a lay-by diner etc. That is not a problem with my manager.
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Old 28-01-2010, 17:40
evesapples131
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I see my friends point when she says, how is it possible to falsify anything when she had nothing to compare it against? In order to falsify you firstly have to deliberatley ignore actual evidence dont you?

And if she wanted to cheat the system she would have sat around in the van waiting for the time to click over, my friend is 50 and has never once cheated or stolen anything, now she's being accused of this and she's having her wages docked. It's completley unfair!
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Old 28-01-2010, 17:49
Glen
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I see my friends point when she says, how is it possible to falsify anything when she had nothing to compare it against? In order to falsify you firstly have to deliberatley ignore actual evidence dont you?
She has a watch/clock and knows where she is and what she is doing, so that should be the basis of what is recorded on the time sheets. She doesn't need to see the records of the tracker to know what to write on the time sheet.
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Old 28-01-2010, 18:51
Cruachan
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... how is it possible to falsify anything when she had nothing to compare it against? In order to falsify you firstly have to deliberatley ignore actual evidence dont you?

... and she's having her wages docked.
First point - one falsifies a time sheet by entering the wrong time for the activity. Surely she does not expect to be presented with the tracker records so that she can then complete the time sheet?

Second point - is she really having her wages docked already? The disciplinary meeting is not until 29th? Did that result from the meeting of the 26th?

Anyway, to have any chance of her explanation of "swings and roundabouts" being taken seriously she should ask for a set of tracker records covering a longer period than that which shows her, apparently, taking advantage of the system. If she can then demonstrate her "swings and roundabouts" approach a different view may be taken by the employer than if she is thought to be cheating.
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Old 28-01-2010, 19:03
evesapples131
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First point - one falsifies a time sheet by entering the wrong time for the activity. Surely she does not expect to be presented with the tracker records so that she can then complete the time sheet?

Second point - is she really having her wages docked already? The disciplinary meeting is not until 29th? Did that result from the meeting of the 26th?

Anyway, to have any chance of her explanation of "swings and roundabouts" being taken seriously she should ask for a set of tracker records covering a longer period than that which shows her, apparently, taking advantage of the system. If she can then demonstrate her "swings and roundabouts" approach a different view may be taken by the employer than if she is thought to be cheating.
Yes, she is having her wages docked already, they've given her photocopies of the time sheets with her markings scribbled out and their own markings put in place.

The way I see it, she has no experience of the tracker system and how deadly serious it is taken, her manager was the one who gave her the impression that it's not set down in stone, and putting down contracted time rahter than actual time is ok. How is she supposed to think any differently? More fool her for trusting her managers word maybe?
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Old 28-01-2010, 19:10
Gogfumble
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Am not surprised she is being pulled up for this.

A job takes 1.5 hours, but has an allocation of 2 hours.

Of course your 'friend' should only put 1.5 hours down. 30 minutes may not sound a lot but it adds up.

Firstly, can the amount that the customer has to pay for the job be affected by the time she says it takes. They may pay by the hour as set out in the time sheets - which would of course mean they were paying more. It does not matter that the next week the job may then take 2.5 hours, thus levelling things out. The way accounts and time keeping records are taken, it would still appear as a discrepancy.

Also, even if the customer pays a set amount problems could arise. If they are regular customers, your friends managers may think "hmm, this job takes 30 minutes longer than we thought, so maybe we should consider adjusting the charge accordingly" - they then approach the customer to introduce the price rise to be met with "but they never take that ling to do the job, so why should I pay more?"

Also, is your friend the only worker? If someone else also does the job and is handing in accurate time sheets the managers will obviously wonder why there are so many discrepancies. Why does a job take your friend 2 hours, when it only takes someone else 1.5. They may wonder if it really takes 2 hours or maybe they are spending the extra 30 minutes sitting twiddling their thumbs.
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Old 28-01-2010, 19:35
cosmo
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This might come in useful for your friend and anyone in a similar position of being followed by their employer.
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Old 28-01-2010, 20:05
jimmy7bellies
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Naive of her to think the tracker isn't going to be used to check up on timing/whereabouts!

Why is it easier to put down false hours than the actual hours? Surely if a job is taking longer or quicker than contracted then the contract would need to be ammended?
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Old 29-01-2010, 01:39
gomezz
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This might come in useful for your friend and anyone in a similar position of being followed by their employer.
They have that one covered. You can also be pulled up for using the vehicle with no tracker info. It is then up for debate as to it being an equipment fault or outside interference. A lead-lined lunch box stored under the driver seat covering the black box has been discussed.
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Old 29-01-2010, 02:00
Glen
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This might come in useful for your friend and anyone in a similar position of being followed by their employer.
And then get disciplined for that too?
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