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RTE on Freeview in NI after DSO ?


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Old 28-01-2010, 18:26
Peter Henderson
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I know it's been discussed before, however, this caught my attention:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/broadcas...n-ireland.html

Among its other recommendations, the committee also called for public service channel RTE to remain available in Northern Ireland after the digital switchover completes in 2012.
and the only way this can be achieved is to make the services available on Freeview throughout NI (since no RTE channels are FTA on satellite). A glimmer of hope perhaps ?
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Old 28-01-2010, 19:13
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I know it's been discussed before, however, this caught my attention:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/broadcas...n-ireland.html

and the only way this can be achieved is to make the services available on Freeview throughout NI (since no RTE channels are FTA on satellite). A glimmer of hope perhaps ?
Doesn't that just mean that it won't be blocked on satellite in the future, so that everyone in NI can access it via Freesat?

It's difficult to see where the spectrum is going to come from to make all RTE services available on DTT across NI.
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Old 28-01-2010, 19:15
duke_toaster
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That would have the side-effect of unblocking it to England, Scotland and Wales though.
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Old 28-01-2010, 19:29
Peter Henderson
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That would have the side-effect of unblocking it to England, Scotland and Wales though.
Not necessarily. NI can't get access to TV3 for example. RTE also block certain programmes in NI due to rights issues, e.g. live football (and even recorded highlights from the premier league) so it could be done.

It's difficult to see where the spectrum is going to come from to make all RTE services available on DTT across NI.
I think there is some space available on Freeview (the BBC has vacated 302) and they could do away with some of the crappy shopping/porn/chat channels which I think most viewers in NI would not mind losing in favour of RTE.
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Old 28-01-2010, 20:05
SteveMcK
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lack of programming which portrays "ordinary life" in Northern Ireland.
Oh gawd, they'll inflict "ShankillFallsEnders Steet Neighbours" on us

When they say "continue" to make RTE available after DSO, I wonder if they're confusing RTE with TG4, the Irish-language channel which has an analogue transmitter in Belfast. Wouldn't be surprising to see it found some space on a mux somewhere.
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Old 28-01-2010, 20:55
chrisy
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Oh gawd, they'll inflict "ShankillFallsEnders Steet Neighbours" on us

When they say "continue" to make RTE available after DSO, I wonder if they're confusing RTE with TG4, the Irish-language channel which has an analogue transmitter in Belfast. Wouldn't be surprising to see it found some space on a mux somewhere.
TG4 already has space on mux 2 after DSO.
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Old 01-02-2010, 18:20
MarkLS12
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Statements issued today from The Department of Culture and the Irish Department of Communications.

"...commits the two Governments to facilitating the widespread availability of RTE services in Northern Ireland and BBC services in Ireland on a free-to-air basis" on Digital Terrestrial.

http://www.culture.gov.uk/reference_...ases/6613.aspx
http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releas...oadcasting.htm

(Seems to be same statement on both)
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Old 01-02-2010, 18:37
Peter Henderson
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Statements issued today from The Department of Culture and the Irish Department of Communications.

"...commits the two Governments to facilitating the widespread availability of RTE services in Northern Ireland and BBC services in Ireland on a free-to-air basis" on Digital Terrestrial.

http://www.culture.gov.uk/reference_...ases/6613.aspx
http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releas...oadcasting.htm

(Seems to be same statement on both)
Looks promising Mark. It does appear they're going to find space for all the RTE services as well, either on Freeview or Freesat.
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Old 01-02-2010, 19:03
chrisy
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Looks promising Mark. It does appear they're going to find space for all the RTE services as well, either on Freeview or Freesat.
The full MoU specifically mentions DTT:

Originally Posted by MoU
a)Ensure spectrum availability on relevant DTT multiplexes in Ireland and Northern Ireland for the Public Service Channels identified above.
No mention of satellite at all.

Also, its interesting that TG4 and RTE channels have been split. I suppose this is because TG4 has already been guaranteed space in NI.

Originally Posted by MoU
b)The widespread availability on the DTT platform of TG4 in Northern Ireland.
c) That arrangements are made to facilitate the widespread availability on the DTT platforms of BBC services in Ireland and of RTE services in Northern Ireland
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Old 01-02-2010, 19:43
Tony Richards
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The full MoU specifically mentions DTT:

No mention of satellite at all.

Also, its interesting that TG4 and RTE channels have been split. I suppose this is because TG4 has already been guaranteed space in NI.
Understandable. Freeview or DTT coverage can be limited to a small area. Satellite can cover much larger areas and there is no way that RTE could ever broadcast what it does, i.e. a lot of current British programmes, to mainland Britain. A pity as I would love to see it but it really can't happen.
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Old 01-02-2010, 19:53
cdon77
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So Ireland gets the full benefit of BBC but no RTE in the rest of the UK! Isn't Ireland using DVB-T and the UK DVB-T2? They are going to need a couple of muxs in Ireland for the BBC, maybe not now but when the SD channels migrate.
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Old 01-02-2010, 19:59
mpk81
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So Ireland gets the full benefit of BBC but no RTE in the rest of the UK! Isn't Ireland using DVB-T and the UK DVB-T2? They are going to need a couple of muxs in Ireland for the BBC, maybe not now but when the SD channels migrate.
It does not say all BBC services, I would expect BBC 1 NI and BBC 2 NI only as they are the only Northern Ireland BBC TV Channels.
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Old 01-02-2010, 20:48
Franglais
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are the technical specifications for "teletext", i.e. sub-titles for the Deaf/hard of hearing, the same bewteen DVB-T and DVB-T2?
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Old 01-02-2010, 20:54
cdon77
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It does not say all BBC services, I would expect BBC 1 NI and BBC 2 NI only as they are the only Northern Ireland BBC TV Channels.
What about radio? BBCi? are they not available in NI?
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Old 01-02-2010, 22:45
Peter Henderson
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No mention of satellite at all.
Surely the words "free to air" would imply satellite ? I don't think those terms are used at all when referring to Freeview.

What about radio?
Yes, was thinking that myself. RTE radio on terrestrial transmitters in the north either FM or DAB perhaps ?
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Old 01-02-2010, 23:03
Winston_1
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Isn't Ireland using DVB-T and the UK DVB-T2?
No. Both use DVB-T, though the UK will use DVB-T2 for HD.
However Ireland uses MPEG4 whereas the UK uses MPEG2.
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Old 01-02-2010, 23:26
Paddy C
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Won't a DVB-T2 receiver pick up both the UK Freeview HD service and ROI DTT (Saorview)? Won't HD channels on Freeview be in MPEG 4?

An MPEG 4 receiver will pick up the ROI DTT (Saorview) and UK Freeview, but not Freeview HD. I hope there will be some sort of box eventually that will be able to fully decode both services.

I would imagine everyone in NI will just get the Freeview HD receivers and pick up all channels on that. Although will the NI versions have programming blocked? If so I'm glad I will be able to receive the proper full signal from a transmitter in ROI that will give all 4 channels (plus more probably) completely unblocked.
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Old 02-02-2010, 00:06
Peter Henderson
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I would imagine everyone in NI will just get the Freeview HD receivers and pick up all channels on that. Although will the NI versions have programming blocked? If so I'm glad I will be able to receive the proper full signal from a transmitter in ROI that will give all 4 channels (plus more probably) completely unblocked
Paddy: It Llooks as if both governments are aiming to get not only TG4, but RTE 1 and 2 on Freeview asap (and at least by DSO) so Freeview HD receivers would be unnecessary:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8492102.stm

The governments want arrangements to be put in place to allow for the development of digital reception equipment which is compatible with the technical standards applied in both jurisdictions.

They also want to make sure that space is available on the DTT systems in the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland for BBC and RTE respectively.

The governments said they will consult with the broadcasters on costs and rights issues.
Looks like this is likely to happen now, at least on the main Freeview transmitters. Today's announcement does look like a formal agreement. As regards space, I don't think viewers would mind sacrificing some of the +1 channels (which are pointless in my opinion) or some of the more crappy shopping/chat/porn channels.

Hopefully this deep null thing to the north will be sorted as well. I have a perfect signal from Clermont Cairn here in Jordanstown on analogue, zilch on digital although every so often it's receivable at good strength for a few days (null removed ?)
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:25
wgmorg
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Freeview is a FTA service on DTT in the UK.

TUTV is a Pay TV service on DTT in the UK.

Surely the words "free to air" would imply satellite ? I don't think those terms are used at all when referring to Freeview.
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:36
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Paddy: It Llooks as if both governments are aiming to get not only TG4, but RTE 1 and 2 on Freeview asap (and at least by DSO) so Freeview HD receivers would be unnecessary:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8492102.stm



Looks like this is likely to happen now, at least on the main Freeview transmitters. Today's announcement does look like a formal agreement. As regards space, I don't think viewers would mind sacrificing some of the +1 channels (which are pointless in my opinion) or some of the more crappy shopping/chat/porn channels.

Hopefully this deep null thing to the north will be sorted as well. I have a perfect signal from Clermont Cairn here in Jordanstown on analogue, zilch on digital although every so often it's receivable at good strength for a few days (null removed ?)
I'm not sure how this is going to work:

a) There is no spare capacity on the Freeview MPEG2 system.

b) Rights issues will remain: therefore programme blackouts will be inevitable.

c) UTV will object to this deal as it means loss of ad revenue in NI. Court case and judicial review?

d) Who is going to pay the carriage costs across all NI stations post DSO?

e) DDR spectrum is planned to be auctioned by Ofcom should it survive if the Tories win the UK election.

f) Ireland plans to use MPEG4 DVB-T1 should DTT there be successfully launched whereas the UK is using MPEG4 DVB-T2. Provided T2 boxes are backwards compatible with MPEG4 T1 these will be the solution of choice in NI.

g) The Unionists are opposed to this deal: see this morning's Belfast Newsletter.

h) The existing analogue overspill patterns will be preserved post DSO provided the Chester agreements for DTT replacement assignments are adhered to and the analogue HRP patterns adopted. This means overspill will continue to work. However Clermont Carn has to change frequencies because Channels 60-69 are being cleared EU wide for mobile broadband (the so called 700Mhz auction.)

Therefore we can expect big delays in the implementation of this plan. It took many years to enable Clermont Carn's analogue power restrictions into NI to be lifted which is an obvious historical precedent.
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Old 02-02-2010, 10:07
Paddy C
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Clermont use 52, 56, 66 and 68 for analogue and 53 currently for digital with the proposed plan to use 57, 60 and 63 for digital too. So, that leaves 2 of the 4 digital MUX's that have to be rehomed in the next year or two, leaving Clarmont probably broadcasting it's 4 digital MUX's on 52, 53, 56 and 57.

The Unionists may be opposed, but drive through any staunch Protestant area in NI and I guarantee you the majority of houses have both BBC aerials and RTÉ ones too. It's just arguing for the sake of arguing really, and it's no surprise given just who's involved...
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Old 02-02-2010, 10:38
Peter Henderson
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The Unionists may be opposed, but drive through any staunch Protestant area in NI and I guarantee you the majority of houses have both BBC aerials and RTÉ ones too. It's just arguing for the sake of arguing really, and it's no surprise given just who's involved...
Indeed Paddy, I've been saying this for years. Even in East Belfast where reception from Clemont Cairn is difficult you will see lots of RTE aerials, virually every house. The only place you wont see them is where reception is next to impossible, say along the Knockbreda dual carrigway which is in the direct lee of the Castlreagh Hills. In this case the new aggreement will be a godsend if it comes off (and it now looks as if it will), even if we cant get TV3. TV3 has been pretty much dumbed down anyway. It's not the same station it was when it started.
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Old 02-02-2010, 10:46
Peter Henderson
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There is no spare capacity on the Freeview MPEG2 system
(1) TG4 has had a slot reserved on Freeview post DSO.

(2) Do away with Channel Four +1, ITV2 +1, or More 4 +1 in NI (don't think viewers would worry about losing these) and there's the extra space. Alternatively, get rid of some of the crappy shopping/chat/porn channels. Mobilizer or gay rabbit for example. These channels are pointless and are just taking up valuable space.

(3) Why the big issue with rights issues anyway ? The Clermont Cairn, Cairn Hill, Hollywell Hill, and Moville transmitters make pretty big inroads into NI anyway. No problem there.
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Old 02-02-2010, 10:56
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TG4 will go on mux 2 - so it will probably replace the current ITV timeshift service. More 4+1 is not on Freeview.

Shopping channels are on commercial multiplexes and do not have universal coverage. Can't the frequencies used by Five (analogue) be used to top-up coverage of the RTE digital mux in the north? (The frequencies are in the part of the UHF band that's going to be sold off for other uses; could be used for RTE in Northern Ireland)
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Old 02-02-2010, 11:15
mrdtv
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TG4 will go on mux 2 - so it will probably replace the current ITV timeshift service. More 4+1 is not on Freeview.

Shopping channels are on commercial multiplexes and do not have universal coverage. Can't the frequencies used by Five (analogue) be used to top-up coverage of the RTE digital mux in the north? (The frequencies are in the part of the UHF band that's going to be sold off for other uses; could be used for RTE in Northern Ireland)
Five is on Ch 37 in NI. That frequency will be auctioned by Ofcom as part of the DDR as its in cleared spectrum and a UK wide bidder would want that channel or as part of a package of frequency lots. There is a big difference rights wise between overspill and retransmission: in the former rightsholders turn a blind eye and in the latter they want compensation in other territories or have to respect other contractual exclusivity arrangements. Those with overspill will get the full RTE service.
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