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MP3 Players
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RobAnt
31-01-2010
I've been looking around, but can't find what I want.

Which is, essentially, a portable MP3 player which will accommodate a 2.5" IDE hard disk drive.

They used to abound. I had a Creative Zen, but that died about a year ago. Since then I've been stuck with a tiny 4Gb ( "tiny" - that used to be massive, beyond comprehension, in the '80s) device. It works, but means I can't take everything with me I want.

I need about 80Gb for my current music library. One capable of taking a drive, but empty, ie an MP3 playing portable caddy, would be great as I have lots of spare 2.5" IDE drives.
chiller15
31-01-2010
I know the new Creative Zen X-FI range can support 32GB of internal memory, and a SD card on top of that...though I don't know what the maximum flash drive it can handle is.

As for one that can accommodate a 2.5" disc...I have no idea. I think they're gone from using discs to flash memory.
Trollheart
31-01-2010
TMK, the only ones over 80 gig at the moment are the ipod Touches, though when you say "capable of accomodating", do you mean you want to swap in a drive, or is that just a way of saying you need something able to take over 80 gig? Bit confused there.

Current Zen model is the X-Fi2, goes up to 32 gig. Basically the ZVM with a touchscreen....
RobAnt
01-02-2010
Originally Posted by Trollheart:
“TMK, the only ones over 80 gig at the moment are the ipod Touches, though when you say "capable of accomodating", do you mean you want to swap in a drive, or is that just a way of saying you need something able to take over 80 gig? Bit confused there.

Current Zen model is the X-Fi2, goes up to 32 gig. Basically the ZVM with a touchscreen....”

I've seen some used Creative Zen Touch 20/40/60Gb devices on eBay for reasonable prices. These use 2.5" drives, which can be swapped out for bigger ones. If you can get inside without destroying them.
CS Aye
01-02-2010
I think those crazy little Archos machines have a 2.5" hard disk. Massive overkill for an MP3 player since they can show videos etc.

Unfortunately for lovers of huge music libraries, Flash memory got cheap, and it's massively more reliable than a spinny disk of metal.
Trollheart
02-02-2010
Originally Posted by RobAnt:
“I've seen some used Creative Zen Touch 20/40/60Gb devices on eBay for reasonable prices. These use 2.5" drives, which can be swapped out for bigger ones. If you can get inside without destroying them.”

There's no Creative Zen Touch, AFAIK. The only Touch is the ipod Touch...
RobAnt
02-02-2010
Originally Posted by Trollheart:
“There's no Creative Zen Touch, AFAIK. The only Touch is the ipod Touch...”

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CREATIVE-ZEN-T...item1e5a328dd1
Trollheart
02-02-2010
Ah. My bad...
Trollheart
02-02-2010
Must be VERY old though --- the search term "Zen touch" returns 0 matches on Creative's website...
chiller15
02-02-2010
I know it's the US site, but: http://us.store.creative.com/ZEN-XFi...B002NKLRF2.htm

Taken from the technical breakdown under the description:

"Touch and go
The digital world is now at your fingertips. The intuitive 3" TFT LCD touchscreen allows you to navigate with ease and responds to your every touch."
Trollheart
02-02-2010
That's the X-Fi2, totally different to what he was looking at on ebay...
chiller15
02-02-2010
Originally Posted by Trollheart:
“That's the X-Fi2, totally different to what he was looking at on ebay...”

Oh sorry, I thought he mentioned the X-Fi2.

Originally Posted by RobAnt:
“http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CREATIVE-ZEN-T...item1e5a328dd1”

That sounds dodgy, lol. Like it's been stolen. No accessories, and comes with music/photos on it.
Trollheart
02-02-2010
No, I did. He mentioned he had a Zen, but it's dead now.

I agree: that unit looks very dodgy, also must be getting near its pension, so who knows how long it would last (or if it even works)?

I'd avoid.
CS Aye
02-02-2010
Have you considered an MP3 player with removable SD Micro cards, Rob?

I've got a Sandisk Sansa Fuze. It has 4GB on board and a slot for SD Micro cards (the ones that are as big as a thumbnail, I have a 4GB card in it). They do the Fuze with 8GB onboard, and you could get a couple of 16GB SDHC cards.
RobAnt
03-02-2010
Originally Posted by CS Aye:
“Have you considered an MP3 player with removable SD Micro cards, Rob?

I've got a Sandisk Sansa Fuze. It has 4GB on board and a slot for SD Micro cards (the ones that are as big as a thumbnail, I have a 4GB card in it). They do the Fuze with 8GB onboard, and you could get a couple of 16GB SDHC cards.”

Not big enough and I don't want to swap cards while driving. Plus price is too high.

Won one of them, the one linked to is not as good as the one I bought though. They are a bonafide company, I checked them out.

Might need a new battery, and I will have to buy a bigger 1.8" hdd with correct connection (might be ZIF). Also not sure if 1.8s come in both ata and sata. So long as the case is okay, replacing those two items will help to restore it to full health, and I have time.

I like to take all my music with me when I travel. No point leaving most of it at home and having a sudden craving for the merengue after a deep session of Beethoven.

Will let you know.

Edit: Oh, and Creative do have it on their site, it has simply been archived.

I've already downloaded the manual, firmware updates, drivers and software. I already have a ZEN charger (but it charges via USB anyway), and a suitable usb car charger too.

It was a considered purchase, I didn't go into it blindly.
PrinceGaz
03-02-2010
Originally Posted by RobAnt:
“I've been looking around, but can't find what I want.

Which is, essentially, a portable MP3 player which will accommodate a 2.5" IDE hard disk drive.

They used to abound. I had a Creative Zen, but that died about a year ago. Since then I've been stuck with a tiny 4Gb ( "tiny" - that used to be massive, beyond comprehension, in the '80s) device. It works, but means I can't take everything with me I want.

I need about 80Gb for my current music library. One capable of taking a drive, but empty, ie an MP3 playing portable caddy, would be great as I have lots of spare 2.5" IDE drives.”

80GB? That's either an awful lot of music, or an inefficient way of storing it.

Lossless codecs can achieve better than 2:1 compression, and most people are unable to differentiate between 256kbps AAC or similar modern codecs and an original CD, which is better than 5:1 compression. If it is music to take on the move, then even 256kbps will be overkill with all the background noise, so 192kbps AAC would be fine.

Keep uncompressed copies at home on your computer certainly, but for music on the move, compressing it to get more music on is well worth while, and you won't be able to hear the difference unless you happen to find yourself in a very quiet room and are using high quality headphones.
Trollheart
03-02-2010
Originally Posted by PrinceGaz:
“80GB? That's either an awful lot of music, or an inefficient way of storing it.


”

Not at all: my music collection is 100 gig plus, and growing all the time!
RobAnt
03-02-2010
Quote:
“That's either an awful lot of music”

Yes, it is. And I wouldn't be without a note of it.

Plus, there are my audiobooks, recordings of individuals and bands I've made at gigs from the mixing desk, Chinese (Mandarin) lessons, the occasional data and image files.

I'm hoping I can get a 120Gb or bigger drive that will work in it, but 80 would suffice for the moment.

Quote:
“most people are unable to differentiate between 256kbps AAC or similar modern codecs and an original CD”

Thankfully, I'm not "most people". I learned how to listen over 3.5 decades ago.

There's no such thing as a "lossless" audio compression codec. That's it's whole reason for being. Even so, I compress to mp3 320kbps (anything less sounds poor, even so it ain't great) for music and less for audiobooks and lessons.

Also, "on the move" has many different meanings. It's not just a matter of walking down the street, or listening on the tube. I can mean going away from home overnight or longer.

Quote:
“Keep uncompressed copies at home on your computer certainly, but for music on the move, compressing it to get more music on is well worth while, and you won't be able to hear the difference unless you happen to find yourself in a very quiet room and are using high quality headphones.”

Please don't put me in the same class of listener as yourself. I'm sure you don't mean it, but it is derogatory.
CS Aye
03-02-2010
Originally Posted by RobAnt:
“There's no such thing as a "lossless" audio compression codec. That's it's whole reason for being.”

Of course there's such a thing as lossless audio compression! That's like saying there's no such thing as lossless file compression, when that's what a ZIP archive is. You can compress numerical patterns without chucking anything away, that's what's done by FLAC etc.
Trollheart
03-02-2010
Originally Posted by RobAnt:
“
Thankfully, I'm not "most people". I learned how to listen over 3.5 decades ago.



Please don't put me in the same class of listener as yourself. I'm sure you don't mean it, but it is derogatory.”

These two comments smack of elitism and snobbery. The second one, by its very use, could be also taken as being derogatory, which you have asked people not to be. You're essentially saying "I'm better than you", which is not something most people are going to want to hear, be it true or no. I'm sure you don't mean it, but you're coming across as very arrogant and stuck-up, which will not endear you to anyone here..

Please remember people here are trying to help you (and they are under no obligation to do so), and refrain from talking down to them.
Thx
TH
RobAnt
15-02-2010
So, I'm an elitist snob. Sue me.

Anyway, the Touch I bought seems to work well. Had problems updating the firmware, which rendered it useless for a few days, but Creative were very helpful solving that problem.

It's not beautiful, but it's practical and sturdy and if it lasts a couple of years I'll have gotten full value out of it.

My only regrets are that:

(a) The maximum size drive it will take is a 40Gb, as they didn't make bigger capacity drives that will fit into the available space. 60Gb 1.8" drives and above are deeper.

(b) You can't make playlists on the device itself, so I have to do that in advance on a PC.

The little 4Gb device still works perfectly, of course, so I can use that for non-music stuff.

Sound quality through my car's aux input is also very good, better than I had expected and if the car is moving then, of course, even I can't hear the shortcomings of the MP3 format.

My ripped vinyl albums sound particularly good.
RobAnt
15-02-2010
Originally Posted by CS Aye:
“Of course there's such a thing as lossless audio compression! That's like saying there's no such thing as lossless file compression, when that's what a ZIP archive is. You can compress numerical patterns without chucking anything away, that's what's done by FLAC etc.”

Perhaps I should have been a bit more specific. There is not such thing as a lossless digital recording. Digital recordings are rapid samples of the real world. The real world isn't digital in nature, or if it is it is at such a humongously high resolution that current digital recording technology simply can't take it all in.
CS Aye
16-02-2010
Originally Posted by RobAnt:
“Perhaps I should have been a bit more specific. There is not such thing as a lossless digital recording. Digital recordings are rapid samples of the real world. The real world isn't digital in nature, or if it is it is at such a humongously high resolution that current digital recording technology simply can't take it all in.”

Right. And neither can your ears.
Trollheart
16-02-2010
I don't know: with a head as big as he obviously has, he must have HUGE ears!
RobAnt
17-02-2010
Originally Posted by Trollheart:
“I don't know: with a head as big as he obviously has, he must have HUGE ears! ”

Flying is the only way of getting around! One flap and I'm airborne.
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