I found much of Tennant's (and to a lesser extent, Ecclestone's) pacifism to be nauseating and absurd.

This is a guy who was a warrior - descending from a nearly omnipotent race of beings, who countlessly destroyed worlds and aliens.

This guy has got more blood on his hands than any other long-running eponymous character. And yet he keeps (pathetically) shunning violence...!?

Hopefully the new Doc will have a lot more wise, and cold approach to monsters. He will be more pragmatic, depending less on dogmatic idealism and glibness.

Hopefully, like Pertwee, he will be a man's man, an action hero, tough and masculine, unlike the rather effete and effeminate Tennant's Doc.

The best analogy I can espouse is Dirty Harry the Policeman from the films. Mean, tough and takes no nonsense.

A Doctor Who for the new millenium.

Congratulations.

You completely fail to understand Doctor Who on any level.

Have a cigar.

Ghosts should also have more of a presence. That's proper Sci-fi.

Well, Smith has said in an interview that his Doctor is less tolerant than the previous two. Maybe you will get a gun-totting, fist-y, angry, alpha-male, all action and no words Doctor...

...but personally, out of the two, I'd prefer his bow-tie to have spinning ability which allows him to fly like a helicopter away from tense situations, with Amy and River hanging onto each leg for dear life.

I think the latter is more likely than what you're asking in any case.

The Dervish/Debian collective returns at last
Will they claim to be a hip pensioner or downtrodden teenager this time?

Returning to the serious nature of this debate , The Doctor should indeed be modelled on Lt Harry Callaghan. Only if Ben Chatham is his new companion though.

Are you sure you didn't mean to say:

You fail to appreciate RTD's vision of Doctor Who.

I loved the moral ambiguity of the new series and the shear weight of the guilt that the Dr carried around with him. I think Davros' outing of the Dr's hypocrisy in Journey's End was brilliant.

But...

The moralizing *almost* verged on Star Trek levels. A ship full of humans imposing human values on an alien universe - was there ever a better metaphor for the USA? DS9 even had them sponsoring terrorism. I digress.

A Dr a bit more alien, bit more unpredicatble and a bit less Jesus would make for more interesting TV. (McCoy and Tom Baker did this a bit better.) Not sure he would make a good role model for the children though.

Wasnt the Third Doctor an action Doctor and would fight anyone who challanged him, sorry i have started watching old Doctor Who from his first story.

Sounds a bit like the Steve Irwin-Russell Crowe figure from South Park. Now there's an idea for Dr Who! The Tardis chameleon circuit could get stuck in a tugboat shape.

"Every planet has an OSS-TRAYL-YA."

OP...I think you need to watch the following Who stories...


The Silurians....where the Third Doctor is hoping for a peaceful compromise, and then is sickend (as you are of the tenth and ninth Doctor's pacifism) that the Brig decides to blow them Silurians up....

The Time Monster....where the Doctor asks for the Master to be spared...

The Genesis of the Daleks...a chance to kill his all time enemies....but no...

Family of Blood....The Doctor punishes the Family

The Runaway Bride...the Doctor kills and watches in deep anger the death of the Racknoss's children

The Christmas Invasion....the Sycorax leader...no second chances...

The End of the world/New Earth...both instances allows and believes Cassandra should die...

And many Ten and Nine stories, like World War Three/Tooth and Claw...where the badies die due to the actions of the Doctor, with the intention very much so that, after every other method fails.....and that goes for the classic Doctors too. None of them went around saying. "oooh who shall I kill today"...all of them had the best of intentions, and idealistic views, heck the Fourth Doctor kept judging the "unconventional" ways of Leela, and had to turn "cold" when not left with much option. He could pick up a gun, but never with the same intention that Gene Hunt has, as in with the feeling that violence is the answer....but an ends to a mean, and sometimes, if you are the Sixth Doctor especially, it depends on your patience too. And all the Doctor's are guilty of doing violent acts, and all are guilty of idealistic pacifism. Which is great because it makes the Doctor a flawed character. Even when he is spouting his "no voilence" rule...its never a black and white situation. Take the scene from the Christmas Invasion, where the Doctor judges Harriet Jones for killing the Sycorax, and his judgement leads to the end of her as PM, resulting in the ease that the Master was then able to take over the position. It came to bite him back in a big way! Also, if for argument sake, lets say the two Doctor's of the new series have been more pacifist than the previous, well the previous Doctors had not been the reason that his own people were dead...Nine and Ten were carrying that guilt...so as character development goes, it makes pretty darn sense.


As for the 11th Doctor, I think any sort of "aggression" towards his enemies, seems to be a lot like the Sixth Doctor, as in less patience, rather than the intention to act like Dirty Harry. I am sure that the 11th Doctor will at some point make a "idealistic" speech....as other have in the past. Even if it is hypocritical of him to do so. So he can pick up a gun here or there, he can shout at his enemies, he could kill a few, he could do kung-fu on some people....but in the end, he will still tell you that voilence isn't the over all answer.

And the Dervish collective returns big time.
Not as entertaining as the submarine thread in Cult, but nothing compares to the sublime Should Star Trek be more about ghosts?

Shame the mods ever locked that. One of the most entertaining threads ever.

The Fifth Doctor was a pacifist to a certain extent. To the best of my knowledge, he only used a gun in Earthshock (1982) when the Cybermen got into the TARDIS, and one of his best moments came in Warriors Of The Deep (1984) when he said "There should have been another way" following deaths.

The Doctor is, in general, a peaceful character. For more on this, read the DWM article "The Dark Doctor", featured in DWM 384 (I think).

Oh please, while I will always argue against the idea that The doctor has always been someone who hates guns (which certainly IS is a misnomer that you see cropping up from time to time) the facts of the matter are that most of the time in the classic series The Doctor most always tried to take the most diplomatic approach he could. Some examples are given above. He certainly has never gone around wantonly killing people that he perceived as wrong do-er's in the classic series.

The bottom line is this is a family show, a children's show even, according to the new show runner. Quite why the OP thinks that a man who considers Doctor Who to be a children's show is going to make The Doctor more like "Dirty Harry" I don't know....wishful thinking I'm guessing?

The 9th Doctor wasn't that bent on peace, are we all forgetting when he tortured the Dalek, Left Adam on Earth to be found, Threw a guard head first into a wall to knock him out?

not sure how that fits in. Adam had shown himself to be throughly untrustworthy as a companion. He took the least unpleasant option he could, which was leaving him with his mummy....

does anyone remember there used to be a forum member who would deliberately start controversial threads to wind people up, and generally try and take the debate off on tangents- this seems familiar to me...

whoops, beaten to it didnt read all the posts. Yes that was it 'Dervish'!

Have to agree with the comments above, except for where Eccleston showed some sadness for annihalating the Daleks, thought that was ridiculous given how evil they are.

If you think this idea is bad check out the OP's other thread:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s....php?t=1203160

Nuts

LOL!

This is a .XLIV Sonic Screwdriver, the most powerful Sonic Device in the cosmos, and would blow a Daleks head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?

Not often that I totally agree with stcoop but this time he nailed it!
Perhaps you would be happier watching something else..
Say, Die Hard or NCIS..
Or Buffy. That sometimes has ghosts in it.....


Ps. You're Dervish, here's my copy of the Sun and I claim my £5 !

I adore how every pathetic thread is bombarded with "it needs more ghosts" replies. Brilliant


PMSL

Mornin' gorgeous!

morning

What this shows us is that the main character is very inconsistently written. Poor, inconsistent writing does not reveal flaws in a character but a shoddy overview from the producers.

That the Doc vacillates between sinister power and cruelty (Family of Blood etc) to juvenile idealism and pacifism is just jarring - not the mark of a complex, sophisticated character.

Hopefully a more stark, driven and cold Doctor can emerge to tackle menaces and monsters more directly without all the hand-wringing and procrastination first.