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Aggressive Dog??
pippet272
12-02-2010
Hi all, I have a 17mth GSD who I am starting to worry is getting aggressive. He barks excessively at anyone who dares walk past when I take him out. This started a couple of months ago, and to solve it I started walking him first thing in morning and last thing at night (ie when dark) which seemed to work. The last couple of weeks I have been introducing him to "daytime walking" and he has been fine. However I have just come back from a walk where he frightened a girl to death, she was just walking past and he went into crazy mode. He was on the lead obviously so I just pulled him away however it was quite scary as you can imagine, a 7 stone dog with big teeth barking like a maniac. It took me ages to calm her down, she was crying and threatened to report me. I'm now shaking like a leaf and in tears. I just dont get it. Sorry for rambling but dont know what to do.

Edit for info: This is my 3rd GSD and he has been castrated.
wilhemina
12-02-2010
I'm sorry that you've had such a scary experience ~ no wonder you feel a bit shaken. But don't feel too despondent ~ you're not the first to feel like this & certainly won't be the last! And he was on the lead so under control presuming you can hold onto your 17 month old 7 stone dog!

I used to have a Rottie/GSD rescue that had huge fear aggression problems with people so I know how you feel.

I can't offer any quick fix solutions & being a large & potentially dangerous dog, you can't afford to take any chances with him ~ his life could be at stake as I'm sure you know. Whilst there are people on this forum that may be able to offer practical advise, because of the potential seriousness, it would perhaps be unwise to jump to conclusions based only on what you can tell us. You really need some help from a properly qualified canine behaviourist, preferably APBC registered or at least someone with a proven track record, fully insured & working under vet referral. They would be able to take a full history & assess your dog as well as give you a prognosis & a behavioural modification programme to work through.

Personally I would prefer to go to a behaviourist that doesn't advocate punitive measures to deal with your dog's problems, as if it is fear aggression, the last thing your dog needs is more stress & fear.

If it's happening in various situations, then it may be more generalised & serious. If it's only happening in certain specific situations, then it may be that a counter conditioning & desensitisation programme would help alleviate the problems. But I would still advise going to a qualified behaviourist.

I hope you can get the problems sorted & start to enjoy & trust your dog again ~ let us know how you get on.
pippet272
12-02-2010
Thanks for your reply, glad to know I'm not the only one although it certainly feels like it at the moment. Looking at him now all curled up at my feet you would wonder what the fuss was all about! He does bark when people come in the house but if they just ignore him and walk past he loses interest, he only seems to keep it up if he senses somebody is frightened (ie outside). Obviously this needs adressing as I am now in the position that I am scared to walk him which is no good for anyone, and when I do he is going to feel my anxiety so it's a vicious circle. I am an emotional wreck at the moment, very teary, probably because I'm thinking worst case scenarios. I have e-mailed a behaviourist who is quite local to me on the recommendation of someone who went to puppy classes with us so I hope it can be sorted. Thanks again for listening
wilhemina
12-02-2010
You're welcome. Sometimes just writing it down helps put into perspective.

From what you've said about him being ok with visitors to your house, it may not be too bad a problem. Some dogs are just highly reactive when on lead because if it is fear aggression, then they are prevented from avoiding or running away from the object of their fear so the only response they have is to SHOUT VERY LOUDLY. If it's worked before for them & the person/dog or whatever goes away, then they learn to react like this in future encounters.

I hope your behaviourist can help you & your dog.
Tass
12-02-2010
If this has come on as he gets to his young adult /pushy adolescent phase, which seems to be the case from your post, I would think it is much more likely to be about him testing boundaries and seeing how he can influence people than about his having suddenly and inexplicably become fearful of people, particularly if he is targeting "easy" (i.e less confident) victims .
In some cases dogs do not become more fearful on the lead but rather they can gain confidence from it, and from pulling thier owner into the situation for back up, especially if the owner does not have the dog's respect.

Lack of respect for the owner which can be a reflection of lack of confidence in the owner to manage situations can also encourage the dog to be overly possessive or overly protective of that owner which is a situation that can also be heightened by a lead as it has the dog in closer proximity to what it is guarding, i.e. it's owner.
After all GSDs are bred to be confident, assertive, territorial, security dogs and their work abilty relys on their handler being able to control that potential aggression, otherwise they can make their own decisions as to how, when and where to use it.
Also a lead can give them a clearly definated area to claim.

It could be a wise precaution short term to muzzle train your dog while you are looking at a longer term solution, although muzzles are not infallible as dogs can remove them, hence the training so he is happy to wear it, and you still need to have him under close control as they can still do damage with claws and weight, and still scare people, but it may help you to relax a little more and it so long as it is used properly it greatly reduces the possibility of him biting .

Obviously I know nothing about who you are planning to see but please remember anyone can term themselves a behaviourist and dealing with an large, aggressive GSD, from whatever motivation, is a very different proposition to running a puppy class so ask questions before commiting to seeing this person about their experience, qualifications, insurance and in general terms how they would propose going about helping you.

To some degree what methods would be appropriate would depend on what the dog's motivation for the behaviour is and to some degree on the dog's personality.

It would also be a positive sign if they asked you a bit about the dog and his behaviour before any appointment so they know what they are taking on, and if they can help. I wouldn't be impressed if they asked nothing but were more interested in quoting you prices.

Having a very wide gene pool GSDs do vary enormously in temperament and some are relatively easily managed and trained and friendly with everyone, and don't necessarily all make good guard dogs as they might not be suspicious or aggressive enough.

Others can have a much greater predisposition to their security dog, working background and these are can be much more challenging, or sometimes too much, for non-professional handlers to manage effectively.

Some GDSs can be difficult to manage because they are very nervous and reactive, others at the opposite end of the scale can be very difficult to mange as they are over confident and look to aggressively take charge in various situations.

Conversely the majority between these two extremes can be wonderful dogs.
pippet272
12-02-2010
Thank you Tess for reply and have taken it all on board. The guy rang me and we chatted for over half an hour, he asked me all sorts of questions and has agreed to come for a visit next Thursday. He said he didnt want to give me any tips etc until he had met the dog himself, which I thought sounded professional. He looks qualified from the website although not sure I would know the difference really. Still, I'll give it a go and hope we have some success.
pippet272
13-03-2010
Sorry for dragging this thead up again but as you were good enough to give me advice I thought I should let you know how I'm getting on. The guy came out and was with us for 5 hrs he went through loads of questions etc with me and then we went out. He was really helpful and to cut a long story short, I am now a lot happier. Dizzy is a changed dog already, it's a work in progress obviously but the difference is amazing. Apparently he is very insecure when out of his home, and his barking was fear and warning rather than aggression. I was also told off for spoiling him so am trying to treat him as a dog rather than my baby!! I also recieved through the post all of what I was told written in simple terms so I can refer to it and dont forget what he said. All in all am feeling quite positive and just wanted to say thanks x
StressMonkey
13-03-2010
Thanks for the update pippet

I didn't post as I couldn't add more to Wilheminia and Tass's posts but was interested to see the outcome. Soooo glad it is working out
wilhemina
14-03-2010
Yes likewise ~ I'm glad you have got your confidence back & that you've got some help with your dog. Sometimes it just helps knowing why they react as they do ~ at least then you can start to fix it. I hope it all continues to go well
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