but theres no 'right' or 'wrong' here, imho its a question of balance. i mean... just look how bad alot of retro lyrics were... yellow submarine? morning town ride? shang-a-lang? chirpy chirpy cheap cheap? lol.

anyway i dont agree that gaga's lyrics are meaningless, they may not be the greatest in depth words ever ascribed to music but we are talking about POP music here and id rate her lyrics far better then the majority.

That's another one of my gripes! Pop music died in the 90's! IMO

Huh? When was "before"?

The thing is, when I try to think of any mainstream rock bands, almost everything from this decade has been a cliché lyrically, revolving around love, breaking up, partying, sex, alcohol, dancing etc. Personally, I think this was worsened by the music press going after their usual "working-class authenicity" nonsense trying to look for the next Oasis. Its created an atmosphere where any semi-mainstream band that tries to express serious themes is mocked or feels the need to express it in the language of lad-rock wank (cf. the Enemy). The whole emo fad with all its nonsense didn't help either.

I've noticed in real life there are quite a few pop singers like Gaga and rappers like Eminem that have struck a chord with people lyrically, but I couldn't say the same for mainstream rock music (the one exception maybe being Nickelback - Rockstar). Personally, I really like Gaga's lyrics. They're not immensely complex but they give me really strong mental images compared to most songs.

As much as I hate to admit it (cos I can't stand the lady) - she actually has some talent - she can sing and play the piano, and write music, which is a lot more than most contemporary Pop Artists can say

the trouble is now it is the vast majority, the BRITS has always been rubbish but some of the inane stuff in the last few years has sunk it to an alltime low

and there is no right or wrong, but everyone has an opinion

youd write off all time classic tracks like 'hey ya'? 'feel good inc', 'with every heartbeat'? to name but a few?... let alone gaga's material?.. sorry but even as an oldie id much sooner listen to them than alot of glam rock rubbish, or s/a/w , 'nice' pop like hermans hermits, seekers, dollar, dire straights, post greene fleetwood mac etc or even pretencious prog rock acts like genesis, yes, pink floyd...

theres always been 'good' and 'bad' music but thats down to individual taste.


thats subjective though... who says modern music is 'vastly' rubbish?.. thats a mantra ive heard by older people for the last 45 years, even throughout the times now cited as 'the golden age of innovation' (beatles era, punk/post punk era).

i dare say todays youth will be following this tradition in 30 years time.

The media (which has an increasing amount of control over the music business) demands that female musicians be "sexy" and fit a certain image.

Female musicians who don't market themselves as sex objects or dress as sexual objects tend to struggle to get noticed. If Lady Sovereign had dressed up in skimpy skirts and hot-pants she would have likely have had several number 1s by now. Same with the likes of Fiona Apple and others, they can't really become mainstream because they don't fit the image.

not from the older people I know, maybe just you know a lot of fuddy dudds?

I bet there are a million record collections where Sinatra and Bing sit happily with the Beatles and the Stones

.... and where the beatles and stones sit alongside gaga ...

Oh sorry I didn't know Lady Gaga's lyrics had such deep meaning, oh I apologise for them not striking a chord with me like the many people. I mean after all I don't really relate to promiscuity and sex that much. You know what there are bands that talk about sex yes! But I never said rock bands now did I you just assumed! Another one yes there was promiscuity before in pop music and in deed in the general media but the level of it was considerably lower compared to today. By the way what has TV shows got to do with pop music?

yeah, at least 22

GaGa's songs aren't aren't promiscuity. Sex, yes promiscurity not. Also, not all GaGa's songs are about sex. But as you don't have her albums you would not know this.
Paper Gangsta, Wonderful, The Fame, Paparazzi, Bad Romance, Eh, Eh (There's Nothing Else I Can Say), Telephone, Speechless, Dance In The Dark, Monster, Disco Heaven, Brown Eyes, & Again Again aren't even about sex let alone promiscurity. Speechless is about GaGa's dad and Paper Gangsta is about GaGa's struggles and letdowns in the industry. The Fame is GaGa's idea of what it is to be famous and so on.

I'd still have bought her album for the amazing tunes on it....

Even GaGa fans must admit she wears some dreadful outfits. Her fashion sense is certainly "out-there", despite this though she still sells loads. It doesn't really matter what she wears if people like her music they will buy it anyway.

I'd say Dance In The Dark is about sex.

But surely Monster's her most sexually explicit song? The whole things about sex. Its about having a one night stand with a guy who she met in a club. Not to mention that the guy might have already slept with her friend:
"I asked my girlfriend if she’d seen you round before
She mumbled something while we got down on the floor
We might’ve f*cked not really sure, don’t quite recall" etc

I quite like her songs for what they are, which is trashy pop music. Its certainly not highbrow pop music, or art, or whatever else she likes to call it. To paraphrase someone from another forum its the sort of music that would be played poolside at a hotel in Magaluf, yet she talks about her music as if its high concept art.

But to answer the orginal question - no she wouldn't sell half as many CDs if it weren't for her image. Image is everything, its how she gets so much publicity. I'm not saying thats a bad thing though, I like popstars to have a strong image.

Love her quirky image, but the music is what hooked me, before I even saw how she looked. So, she'd sell one CD at least, without the image. Whether I would have even got to hear her music if she didn't have the image, how will anyone ever know?

The thing is, female artists who dress provocatively or outrageously get noticed by the media, and get the publicity that leads to people becoming aware of them and buying their music.

Female artists who don't fit the glam/sex kitten image tend to have a very hard time.

If GaGa wore casual clothes most people here would never have heard of her and many who have bought her music would not have done so because they would not have been aware of her in the first place as the media and press would not have taken any notice of her.

and often is

Definitely not, pop music is far too superficial... which is fair because it's always been about the spectacle.

How?



Btw, just listened to monster, yeah its about sex.

It's your opinion her outfits dreadful, it's not a fact. I like GaGa's outifts and do not consider them to be dreadful.

has anyone seen this ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8538179.stm

video report ^
news story v
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8537734.stm


quote -

The report said this "drip-drip" exposure was distorting young people's perceptions of themselves, encouraging boys to become fixated on being macho and dominant, while girls in turn presented themselves as sexually available and permissive.


what do fans think about young girls listening to -
i,ll get him hot show him what ive got "
and watching her on stage or in a video with loads of men while dressing provocatively
"im bluffing with my muffin " might make young lads think girls are just out to cheat so why respect them ?

Here's what Gaga said about the meaning of Dance in the Dark.

“The record is about a girl who likes to have sex with the lights off, because she’s embarrassed about her body,” Gaga explained. “She doesn’t want her man to see her naked. She will be free, and she will let her inner animal out, but only when the lights are out.”

The song goes on to reference two supernatural trends-du-jour — “Around her kiss is a vampire grin/ Moonlights away while she is howling at him” she sings — as a means to express how people rely on external cues to cope with internal anxiety.

“She doesn’t feel free without the moon,” Gaga said. “These lyrics are a way for me to talk about how I believe women and some men feel innately insecure about themselves all the time. It’s not sometimes, it’s not in adolescence, it’s always.”

And it applies to everyone, regardless of whether you have a string of Billboard chart toppers or you’re listening to the track in your car. Though acknowledging that she’s in a “deeper, more compassionate place” since writing her debut album, The Fame, Gaga made clear that she continues to struggle with issues of body image and self-doubt in her own life.

“The song isn’t called ‘Dance in the Light,’ ” she said. “I’m not a gospel singer trying to cross people over. What I’m saying is, ‘I get it. I feel you, I feel the same way, and it’s OK.’ ”

"Baby loves to dance in the dark 'cause when he's looking she falls apart"

it's about being uncomfortable when having sex. She has said herself that it's about letting her inner animal out only when the lights are out and also that she doesn't want to be seen naked by her man which explains the quoted lyric.