You weren't talking about consistency though, you were talking about subjectivity. The judging is still subjective even though it may be largely consistent and your quote was, "with subjectivity there is no truth".

Ah, but there is no truth in religion, only deceit and fabrication.

Did you watch it the first time when they won the Olympics, I was gobsmacked, I thought it was brilliant. Now I did have goose pimples all over.

Wrong:

I said >>>

In a competition where the measure of success is purely subjective, such comparisons are pointless.

By all means disagree with me, but do me the service of only disagreeing with what I say, not what you imply I say

Yes, it was good, and groundbreaking for its time. BUT that was then, and now things have moved on.

It's like expecting people to be impressed with Roger Bannister's four minute mile nowadays when all top athletes do under that.

This is what I was referring to...

Yes, but that wasn't my original point and you've taken it out of context

I suppose Ice Dancing has moved on, but I think Virtue and Moir have the same sort of magic Torvill and Dean had, and this was the first time I'd felt that with any other ice dancing couple.

I think that skating has changed a great deal since T & D's time so I don't think that you can directly compare the two.

And why bother, they were both stunning world class performances - Just enjoy both!

I just wish they had this latest one up on youtube!

Yes, but who is groundbreaking these days in the world of ice dancing. T & D will be remembered for being groundbreaking for a long time to come.

To me, that's an unfair question because T & D competed in 1984, under different rules and against different couples. For their time, they were ground-breaking, Virtue/Noir aren't. To me, that element of risk taking makes them better.

Actually, I thought that Virtue and Noir were too safe, with nice but a bit boring music. Davis and white had more difficult moves and more demanding music. Again, that's JMO.

Yes I watched the very first performance on You tube and yes I did have goose pimples. I also watched Bolero performed in 2006 and thought it was OK. Ofcourse 84 performance can not be taken away from them.

I think it was fair.

You said the point of dicussion was truth, with subjectivity there can be no truth.

I therefore asked what the point of competition in subjectively judged sports was as (basing my question around the claim you made above) there could be no truth in victory or defeat.

You said there was a point in those competitions because judgement was largely consistent over the course of one competition.

I said it wasn't consistency that you (and therefore I) had been referring to, it was subjectivity and you had said that with subjectivity there can be no truth. Are you qualifying that statement now?

Incidentally, I'm very glad to see that others are carrying on and (presumably) enjoying this "pointless" discussion...

Too safe and the music was a bit boring - OMFG!

Two the worlds greatest things come together and you are mehh!

Edit: On clicking "submit" I noticed your name "Fashiondiva" - No wonder! Wasn't shallow enough for you?

But they are not groundbreaking are they, as Torvill and Dean were?

Well "groundbreaking" is just as subjective as anything else, so I have no idea why you keep posting that as an attack to anyone's post.

I personally thought that some of the signature moves were groundbreaking. So in my opinion, yes they were!

It's not meant to be an attack to anyone's post, I feel that that T & D were groundbreaking in many ways, whereas Virtue and Moir just do the odd new move/lift. I think their ice-skating is beautiful and that they deserved the Gold Medal but they will not be remembered for the difference they made to ice dancing whereas T & D are.

There is no truth - it's all lies!

Virtue and Moir appear innovative with some very difficult moves and lifts, but they also combine this with an almost old-fashioned balletic style, which is so old-fashioned and seldom seen that it seems almost new. Virtue in particular seems to have a very balletic and graceful style.

What do you mean by "subjective"?

I don't think that "the measure of success in ice skating / gymnastics / trampolining and the like is subjective".

Of course, since human judges are involved, there is a subjective element, but it can be fairly small. These days, they can look at recordings if they want to check something (such as whether a skating jump had the right number of rotations).

For something like ice dance, the subjective element is greater, but I still wouldn't say that makes the whole thing "subjective". Like most things, it's a mixture of subjective and objective.

Just the opposite. Unlike you, I didn't insult another poster's personal opinion - I just stated my own, which should be allowed, shouldn't it? To clarify, I meant that V/M were very good, but not 6 pts higher good than D/W, whose routine I personally preferred. That doesn't make me shallow, but your rude treatment of a fellow poster based solely on their username says quite a bit about you. Have a nice day.

Hmm. I thought there were a fair number of skaters whose style was as balletic.

Don't ask me, ask Wtchfndr Spcfc. I've already got myself into a circular argument with this poster today; I refuse to begin one with you now, I'm too bl**dy tired.

I share your pain - should we retire to the civil exchange of opionion on Popstar to OperaStar?