that a bit like a shallot?

I asked you because you said "the measure of success in ice skating/gymnastics/trampolining and the like is indeed subjective" in a way that made it seem you thought that was the case. There's nothing circular about it.

I would prefer it if, in the future, when you're not interested in a discussion about something I say or ask you would simply not reply rather than stick some label such as "circular argument" on me.

Oh dear - a bit like that instead of that's.
Not to mention the absence of capitalisation i.e. That's.

I am very happy for Virtue and Moir, they were just amazing! Mindblowing stuff. They so deserved it!
I was supporting Davis and White, but I hope they are happy with Silver which is also incredible!

I personally think they are the best since Torvill & Dean. I certainly haven't enjoyed watching a couple as much since then.

I guess being Brits we will all love Torvill & Dean just that little bit more.

I loved Davis & White too.

They are still very young - Tessa is just 20 so it will be interesting to see if they carry on competing for many years as Ice dancers can compete at teh top until they are into their 30s.

Torvill & Dean are overrated in my opinion. I always rated their rivals Bestemianova & Bukin above them.

Sorry, the original post was impolite (and was meant to contain a to imply a certain amount of jocularity). However, the point still stands. Every time I reply to you things tend to go on and on and on and I simply don't have the energy right now...

However, I accept I should have phrased things differently; what I wrote sounded rude and was not meant to be.

Actually, some non-subjective sports are, in a sense, arbitrary.

Football is decided on number of goals scored, not who is the best team. I have seen matches where one side was clearly better but lost because the other side scored one goal more.

At least judged sports attempt to judge the whole performance and decide who is better.

Ravel, the composer of Bolero, said that the piece was his only masterpiece, yet confessed it 'contained no music'.

Just watched the Virtue/Moir routine as I seem to be the only one who hadn't seen it yet. Wow, for starters. Second, there were a few things about it that reminded me of T&D - the flawless, effortless synchronisation was one and the sense of drama was another. It was a very complete performance, in the way that T&D were complete performers.

My favourite routine of all time isn't even an ice dance routine though, so I won't get into that

Yeah. My boyfriend goes on about how sports where marks are given for artistry aren't sport, despite being a fan of a sport where goals can be awarded through bad judgement, mistakes by the opposition or even foul play, rather than through pure skill. At least in marked sports, people get credit where credit's due for their ability.

Please do tell us what it is

Sale and Pelletier's Love Story routine that they won the pairs title with at the 2002 Olympics. Best bit of storytelling ever, loads of action and emotion - just fabulous.

Now I wish I hadn't asked

Meh. Sorry for a startling lack of originality but it was a great bit of skating. At least I didn't say Barnum like 99.5% of the people who don't say Bolero

I was also rooting for them, but so long as they got to skate in the Gala I was always going to be happy - Virtue and Moir were superb and deserved their gold.


I'd personally go for Mack and Mabel

I fell out with the Canadians because they queried their marks and ended up sharing the gold with the Russians, who were my favourites at the time. Was this the routine, I can't remember I have seen so many ice-skating championships now.

Mine is also a pairs routine - Liebenstraum by Franz Liszt, as skated in the 1992 Olympics by Natalia Mishkutenok and Artur Dmitriev.

Actually, there was a judging enquiry, in which the naughty French judge confessed she'd placed the Russians ahead of the Canadians in return for the Russian judges boosting the French pair's score. So it wasn't just the Canadians being arsy about being marked down.

In the end both the Canadians and the Russians were given gold medals and everyone was happy. But that's where the big mark-system change originated from, so that these sorts of things couldn't occur again.

One of my all time favourites was Moonlight Sonata by Godeeva and Grinkov, truly beautiful and mesmerising. Two of the all time greats imo.

Yes, I know it was the correct decision but I never liked Jamie Sale anyway.

There's an interesting book - can't remember the name now about the 3 top pairs of the time. The Canadians, Russians and Chinese. Of them all, Jamie was the only one doing it for the love of skating. Her partner seemed to be doing it more for his mum really. The Chinese both seemed to get in to it as a way to escape their lives and what the Chinese girl went through to get where she is was amazing. I did love the Russians - they were my favourites and her story in particular is quite harrowing too.

I don't think Mr Putin has ever forgiven the IOC for giving the Canadians a gold. Hence his getting in on the Plushenko row.

Elene Berezhnaya was a great skater. She's with Steven Cousins now isn't she?

Yes that's one of my most memorable routines too!

And to think they were going to be robbed of the gold medal because of some suspect judging. That would have been criminal. Glad it all worked out in the end.

Another couple that stood out were Ekaterina Gordeeva and Sergei Grinkov when they won gold in 1994. They were married and had a child but the guy sadly passed away very young

I loved those two - remember being shocked to hear of his death at such a young age. She looked about 7 when she first emerged on the scene () and weren't they the only former champions to come back in 1994 (T&D's comeback year) to regain their olympic title?