[ollyd1985]

Hi all;

I am posting this thread on behalf of my parents who own an ancient Sony 21" 4:3 TV which they have been considering replacing (for some time now) with a new 32" widescreen model. The set must have the following features:
1) Not cost a king's ransom (i.e. the TV must cost less than £1,000)
2) It need not have good quality sound (e.g. Dolby Digital, Pro Logic etc.) built in.
3) An integrated Freeview tuner would be considered a bonus but is not essential.
4) It must have a high quality brand name.
5) The TV set is mainly to be used to watch broadcast programmes (mainly digital terrestrial) and the occasional viewing of 'off the air' video recordings, with the possibility of adding a new DVD player at a later date.

We are currently courting the latest Sony range, has anyone had any good or bad experiences with these sets?

just one question. why is the high quality brand name required, we got a Bush 28 " Pure Flat widescreen before christmas for less than £250 and its built on the same chassis as some of the toshiba tvs.

Its as good as the sony KV28FX20 we had before at a quarter of the price.

Dan

[questionmark]

ollyd - As an owner of a Sony 32" IDTV the only thoughts I'd share are to possibly avoid getting a Sony IDTV. My set is an early one, and it is probable that Sony have moved on substantially in the last couple of years. However, the Freeview receiver in my set is slow, unreliable and poorly featured.

It will depend a lot on what sort of people your folks are and just what other equipment they have. There is no doubt that an IDTV has many virtues, especially in terms of ease of use and ease of integration. However, you also make sacrifices in terms of the quality of Freeview receiver that you end up with.

The following may not be practical for your folks, but I would recommend that if you are going the Sony route to perhaps get an ordinary analogue set and a separate Freeview box. Something like the Humax Fox-T might be a good choice as it is very well thought out, fast, stable, and integrates easily with a separate TV and a VCR. Alternatively the Humax '1000, which has an integrated DVD. (FWIW, Humax are not well known in the UK but have a strong presence in Europe. They currently do Sony quality at Goodmans prices, though it is likely that those prices will rise in time as they establish their brand within the UK).

The bottom line is that the great TV manufacturers don't necessarily make great Freeview boxes. Going the IDTV route may offer a simple solution, but it may also leave you still wanting a separate Freeview box. Having the separate box from the start allows an easier upgrade path in the future. Whichever path you go down though, DO NOT pay a big premium for having that Freeview receiver integrated - i.e. it's just not worth it. If you can get a Sony IDTV at a similar price to an analogue, then perhaps do so. Paying a >£100 premium would just be a nonsense.

The only other thoughts I have are to consider the value of things like 100Hz processing. Unless you are very sensitive to flicker this may be a cost that isn't worth paying, especially as it also significantly increases the power consumption (and by implication subtley reduces reliability). Finally, the Sony target market is very fashion sensitive, and charges a premium for perceptions. Sure the sets generally are good quality, but that premium (IMO) isn't worth it. I would therefore STRONGLY suggest that you buy a "last year's Sony" - i.e. a set that is being replaced. You can typically find those from the high volume retailers at a healthy discount. Note that you will still be getting 100% Sony quality and 100% warranty and lifetime, it's just you won't be paying the 20% premium for having it within it's first 6 months of lifetime.

The bottom line is that Sony make some very good sets (but not great IDTVs), and buying a simple high quality 32" should cost <<£700. If it is paired with a good Freeview box for a simple installation then the end result should be just as easy to use as an IDTV, but be a much better solution at a similar price to an IDTV.

I would sugest you audition a few 50Hz, analogue widescreen Sony's and then shop around for the best price. Online suppliers like QED and Unbeatable are worth checking out. eg - http://www.qed-uk.com/?i=10yVpF3iZxS...&bp=ls36s&bi=0
I'd then marry that to the Humax Freeview/DVD box (e.g. From Dabs - http://www.dabs.com/uk/productView.htm?quicklinx=32RF
You can hook that lot up (including a VCR) with a couple of SCART leads and still have change from £800. The end result should be neat, nicely integrated and be quick, reliable and easy to use.

Finally, if you decide you want to go the IDTV route then you should definitely check out the IDTV web site. This is packed with good information including reviews, pricing and links to most of the UK's best discount retailers. www.idtv.co.uk Just start with their IDTV FAQ for lots of helpful info.

Just one man's thoughts. Hope that helps!

Mark

[questionmark]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ***dan***

just one question. why is the high quality brand name required, we got a Bush 28 " Pure Flat widescreen before christmas for less than £250 and its built on the same chassis as some of the toshiba tvs.

Its as good as the sony KV28FX20 we had before at a quarter of the price.

Dan

Dan - In part I agree with that. Most folks don't realise just how much extra they are paying for that "brand" name (without actually getting much more in return). That said however I think this is a VERY tricky area for the unitiated.

1) Many "generic" sets (e.g. Goodmans, Bush, Matsui, etc) ARE built in the same factories and on the same production lines as the big brands (Toshiba, Hitachi, etc). However, they don't always share the same electronics, even though they might share the same basic designs. Many components can be lower grade in order to reach the lower target price point.

2) Many of the generic sets may come out of the same factories but are based on non-brand designs..... How are you going to know whether a particular Bush model is based on a Toshiba chassis until you take the back off? It could just as easily be a generic Mico design?

3) A big part of the cost in a Sony is that Trinitron tube, which is not available in other brands. Sure the premium value of that is debatable, but it does tend to distinguish Sony.

The bottom line though is that I basically agree with you. People frequently pay much too much for stuff that they can basically buy much cheaper. But, for the unitiated, that's one hell of a gamble. I think it makes the best sense to buy the "better" brands, but to do so after the "new" premium has faded. You still pay a higher price, but in general you do so because you are buying into a brand. That brand may partly just be a snob thing, but it is also something that the company has more incentive to protect than the generic does. It *should* mean better quality, reliability and service, and will typically deliver that.

I have occasionaly been disappointed when I have spent too much going with a brand name. However I have only ever made real mistakes when I spent too little and went with a generic. IMO generics are great when you know EXACTLY what you are getting, but that requires a lot of work in advance and you still end up with higher risk.

[wicket]

I think also you can go on past experience. Our first tv was a Hitachi one, and a make I would not ever buy again with the amount of problems we had with it. We then bought a 29 inch Sony which is about 9 nine year old now and still going strong. For the lounge now we have a Sony 32 inch FX20 which has been working fine for two and a half years now. So for reliability the Sony has it in our case.

We did what questionmark suggested and bought an old model Sony which was about £600 cheaper than buying from the new range. We have been very pleased with it. I would suggest your parents look out for an old Sony too. It is amazing how the tv's price drops once a new range comes out. I think Sony used to issue new ranges in September.

[rich_jtg]

After only owning Sony televisions all my life, I bought a standard 32" 100hz model a couple of years ago, and it was the worst TV I ever owned - so bad I sent it back!

You can see my reasons in a review I wrote here.

The new Sony sets don't seem to have the same quality of the older ones. The rich colours and ultimate blacks you can see on the older Trinitron tubes make you think you are looking at something that isn't made by Sony... and if the TVs are anything like their videos now, then the lower end ones aren't!

I'm not puting down Sony stuff I still are a big fan of theirs, just not their TVs. I know the 21" set you are talking about as I gave mine to my parents for their spare room... just don't expect the same quality picture, without looking at the expensive sets. You may be better looking at Panasonic or Toshiba.

I now own a Toshiba televsion, and are really pleased with the picture quality and features it has.

Oh, and people will no doubt disagree with me, but if your parents are anything like mine, they'll be wanting their old 4:3 television back when they get a widescreen one! pah!

[questionmark]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rich_jtg

The new Sony sets don't seem to have the same quality of the older ones.

rich - I agree with that! There was a time when Sonys used to look great compared to their neighbours in store. However, IMO, it's now only the very high end Sonys that have a similar wow factor (the HiDef sets).

In part that's because quality has improved all round over the last 10 years or so, especially in CRTs. However, we have also had an extended recession in Japan, which means that many Japanese suppliers have had to come down in quality/price in order to compete with the lower cost manufacturers. If I were buying a "brand" set today then in addition to Sony I'd definitely be auditioning Philips, Panasonic and Toshiba.

The bottom line though is to audition. Whatever anyone else says, it's only your own (and ollyd's parents) views that ultimately count here!

[engaged]

Take a look through the TV forum at avforums - or post yur question there;

http://www.avforums.com/forums/forum...?s=&forumid=42

[David (2)]

I have seen a 50Hz 32inch Sony working, and it good, and less than £1000. But I would say that many others can match it. I was impressed by a JVC at a similar size/price. 100Hz sets are a bit better, but they are more expensive too. And the "advantage" of 100Hz may not be visible to everyone. A flat screen is more important - but most in that price range should be flat now anyway. I would also go for an external Freeview box, like the Pace 210.


Dave

[ollyd1985]

This is 'Ollyd' speaking;
All apologies for the extremely slow response to this thread but I have:
1) Had exams which count towards my university course, and eventually my degree!
2) Had someone stealing my IP address over the Internet since I started the Summer Term in my halls of residence.

A few extra points to add:
3) My parents already own a Freeview box (the excellent Labgear DTT100) and are looking at buying the Digifusion FVRT100
4 and a half (as I consider this a subsection of the lead post)) My brother is adamant about buying a top brand TV, although IMO we should wait until September 2005; when he has gone to university.

And finally;
5) I shall definately bear this good advice in mind when I visit my parents at the weekend! Thanks for posting.

[thms]

2005? ~

you'll be able to buy a 30" lcd tv for £1000.00
prices of lcd televisions are dropping rapidly
the old cathode ray tube will become obsolete