And yet last week they only gave her 5.0's which does indeed go with the theory that what they gave the 6.0s for was a performance of what she was given choreographically (includes the toepick skating and dancing) to a very high standard.

When she had more skating skating (for want of a better technical term to contrast with toepick skating!) she found it harder to give a performance of that standard and the skating wasn't of the highest level. Her turn was very much on the toe and Robin mentioned some glitches. Her jump was confident, although watching on the ITV site it's a bit small to
see properly. And I do wish the camera work was better so we could actually see what they're doing.

Apologies if I misinterpereted your post Gazb

But as for the spin. It is taught from a standstill initially because it is easier to get the balance from a standstill at first. What I think I said in another post was that once you can do the back crossover windup stuff then it is easier to get more rotations from it, but it's harder to do that entry into a spin when you are learning, so it is easier for a beginner to spin from standstill than to flow in to it from the correct entry. I'm surprised you would find it different but if you started learning 10 years ago maybe they taught you differently.

I wouldn`t bet on it - could be a repeat of SCD result this year!

So you are agreeing with me then - except that inexperienced skaters can be judged by NISA standards since NISA contol the standards for the majority of 'learn to skate' courses in this country which caters for absolute beginners upwards.

So I can happily judge their skating by learn to skate standards which is what I have been doing.

Edited to add: I do find it quite funny that people are apparently telling me I shouldn't judge their skating because apparently as a skater I am expecting too high a level but the word of an Olympic champions (who incidentallly in case you didn't know is much further from their level than I am) is indisputably correct. (Regardless of the fact there is no scale for them to judge by at all on this show and no rules)

If he is capable of judging them for what they do at this level then so am I.

At least you're no longer saying "she skated nearly her entire routine last week solo". And she did more than "some" toe-pick stuff this week.

It's hard to know whether Robin was over-praising her skating last week or under-valuing the performance or whether he was just trying to give her credit for skating and it was an accident of wording that made it sound like he was saying her skating was equally as good as her performance.

You're either disagreeing with some detail of how I worded it or your disagreeing with icedragon.

It is immensely tedious to have to find the relevant posts, but the unpleasantness of your implications requires that I do so, so here they are:

I'm sorry if you find my posts 'unpleasant'...please don't look so much into them. I love Hayley's performances, so much - and I just don't think she is getting the praise she deserves on this forum...quite the opposite actually... which is why I've been commenting the way I have.

Everyone has opinions, and everyone is entitled to them. Personally, I find it hard to believe that anyone will get to the Hayley standard of this year and go ahead to beat her...however I'm not saying this won't happen.

How on earth did you deduce that?

My swimming achievements were quite impressive and I have the medals etc. to prove it - but I don't judge beginners by my own standards.; in fact I'd be rather disappointed if someone emulated my own achievements with little effort. Perhaps you too should sit back and enjoy without dwelling on the shortcomings of those who have taken part with only the intention of learning a new skill to an acceptable level.

Some have shown more potential than others - same as any other art or sport.

SCD attracts many posters who, after a few lessons, feel qualified to judge ballroom dancing. Popstar to Operastar also drew the attention of those who considered their opinion equal, if not superior, to Rolando Villazon: the list goes on.

I'm minded of the saying: A little learning is a dangerous thing.

Gazb I think you are right that no-one will match Hayley's overall package this year.

Just picking up on a comment you made that you skated for 10 years - did you do tests and competitions too? I find it interesting that we seem to have slightly different opinions on the amount and worth of Hayley's skating when we have both skated for a similar amount of time.

I started when I was 6, and gave up 2 years ago at 16. I did my grades, and stopped doing exams once I failed Grade 8 (skating to Forrest Gump theme...can remember it like it was yesterday, lol) . Competed in a very good few competitions in Blackpool, Ayr, Summit Centre, Lagoon in Paisley and Magnum Centre. Best years of my life, however work and college commitments just took over.

I don't think I've said Hayley's skating is amazing...it's not the best, however looking at it from a fact that she's been doing it for only a few months, she's certainly better than any beginner I watched at the ice rink. Also yes, her jump was defo no triple axel, but at least she gave it a shot. I think her 'dancing' and 'performance' is more impressive (Im also training in musical theatre) so I tend to focus more on that aspect.

Ok so you are disagreeing with me then!

Congrats on the swimming achievements. I have medals for skating too at national level but only as an adult and at quite a low level.

I haven't had just a few lessons. And beyond that I have watched many competitions from absolute beginners to national opens, to worlds and I am perfectly capable of seeing where the DOI skaters fit in.

I'm being accused on the one hand of not knowing as much as Robin the Olympic skater and on the other of being too good a skater to judge them. I can't be both, therefore I would say I am pretty much in the right place to have an informed opinion.

I'm not judging by my own standards I am judging by the standards of any 'learn to skate' class in the country. Yes that's beginner skaters just as the celebs are. And what on earth makes you and others feel I don't enjoy watching the show for what it is.

And what on earth gives you the right to say how or what I should enjoy or comment on. Expected better from you Ignazio.

I thought this was a discussion forum and that we could discuss any thing we liked relating to the show. And gee it's an entertainment show based on skating so gosh might we expect some people to enjoy commenting on and discussing the, what's that stuff they do on the ice - oh yes - skating!

I'm not going to apologise for my skating experience.

Shame you had to give up and congrats on getting to grade 8 (almost ) No small achievement. My son gave up after a bad experience with a judge at a test (who seemed determined to fail him due to some irrational dislike of the way he looked on ice regardless of what he could do- yes she actually said this!)

I think your performance perspective probably explains why you like Hayley more than I do. She is very good at that. They do get an awful lot of coaching time compared to mere mortal beginners though which is probably why I expect to see a bit more good skating from some of them. I think I worked it out once as comparable to my ice time after 4 years of skating.

Enjoyed our debates anyway! Good luck with the theatre stuff.

[quote=icedragon;38963091]Ok so you are disagreeing with me then!

Congrats on the swimming achievements. I have medals for skating too at national level but only as an adult and at quite a low level.


I didn't suggest you've had no more than a few lessons - I merely pointed out this type of forum attracts some who, with little experience, assume the mantle of an expert.

I certainly wouldn't put you on the same level as Robin - and I do think you can lay claim to being informed. I simply question the extent of expertise required in a Saturday night light entertainment programme.

My opinion is, as always, open to question - but your posts suggest more criticism than enjoyment.


Sorry to disappoint you.


Oh the irony - I expected better of you icedragon.


Nor me for my opinion - formed from a life of different experiences.

Exact same happened to my sister! Sitting her grade 6, had a great routine...but such a horrible judge who failed her, without giving any helpful feedback. Some people...

That's a shame..I really hope he picks it up again, and goes back fighting!

Me too, me too..looking forward to Sunday !

It's horrible when that happens. Hope your sister got over it. My son never went back and moved on to other things. Got into music and writing for theatre!

Yep looking forward to Sunday - hope they have some good routines we can both enjoy!

[quote=Ignazio;38963471]
Can't be bothered to work the quote machine so just take the comments in order!

In response to mine it appeared you were implying the few lessons thing was directed at me.

I clearly said I wasn't same level as Robin but that it makes little sense to be told in effect that my comments weren't valid because I wasn't at that level while simultaneously being told I was too high a level to judge anything about their skating. Anybody can watch a Saturday night entertainment programme and be entitled to have an opinion on it whether they know anything or nothing about it. I've always been clear about why I think the way I do and I enjoy discussing it.

Maybe I enjoy criticising! Most people on here criticise in one way or another. I notice many Hayley supporters criticising others and vice versa. In fact I would say the majority of threads are all about criticising something - which is why there are seperate appreciation threads. Besides I don't see any problem with a critique with reasons and a debate with others of different views. I enjoy a good debate - miss my university days when we could happily argue all night and still make 9 oclock lectures.

I'll forgive you this time!

Irony? - it was sarcasm.

What a life you have had. Me too. (No sarcasm or irony intended.)

Fantastic well done to her, the others don't compare to her.

For what?

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit; nevertheless it is wit - though somehow I missed it.

I'm very happy with my experience to date and look forward to further embroidery on the tapestry of life - though I'm not sure which part of my existence invoked the comment; swimmer - student or a professional in my field.

Whatever - so long as we're both happy.

For what you said sorry for!

Indeed it is - I wasn't going for highbrow - this is a forum for a Saturday night entertainment show after all. Where is that sarcasm smiley i shoudl have used? Ooh looks like the roll eyes is it but that doesn't convey what I meant. Ah well.

You have had a life of different experiences - I know you are a high level swimmer and various other things you have mentioned and you are not a kid. I have too - not the swimmer part obviously but it did feel a bit like you were talking down to me.

Don't worry - be happy!

Same thing with my sister...quit and moved on to different things.

Let's hope so !!!

Gawd, that was almost as bad as your petunia in an onion patch remark!

Crickey! Thought I was asking icedragon an innocent question . Very busy day yesterday meant I couldn't check back to see if anyone had responded so here I am in the middle of the night discovering that a major debate has been going on
It's been very interesting reading what everyone has to say. Anyway to each his own, it would be very boring if we all agreed with one another
Roll on Sunday!

Just watched the Bollywood routine on YOUTUBE and it was brilliant. It is the first week I have missed, which is typical!!! Wonderful routine and they were brilliant. What a great idea. I doubt if any of the other skaters can match Hayley now so it isnt so exciting wondering who is going to win. I think we can all see clearly who is going to win this year's Dancing on Ice. It was the same last year. We all knew after the first few weeks who was going to win. Ray was exceptionally good and so is Hayley.

Unfortunately seems there is no such thing on here and instead we get trial by forum! Not sure if I've been acquitted of either knowing too much to comment, or not enough.

As they say on that other bastion of highbrow TV showbiz: You decide!

But trail by forum can lead to some interesting discussions, as in this case. As an onlooker, it was certainly interesting to get both perspectives.

I think sometimes knowing and understanding the technical aspects of an entertainment show can spoil your enjoyment of it (I'm not talking about Hayley, but more generally). It happens to me when I watch forensic crime dramas or anything with a psychological spin on it. Must be like the welding scene in "Flashdance", any boyfriend I've ever been with has told me that she definitely can't weld, meanwhile to me she looked quite convincing.

Nothing is as bad as a petunia in an onion patch - at least for the petunia.