The reason we can't judge whether David Beckham was better than Bobby Moore is because they played in different eras against opposition of different quality. We compare modern players all the time. I'm sure many people have made lists of the top ten players from this decade.

Why does the fact that Suzanne and Hayley were on different series mean that we can't compare them? Just watch their performances on youtube one after the other!

Your argument doesn't make any sense to me.

The guy who skated first (Danny I think) did a good job of the required element, so why is anyone saying Hayley was the only one?

but Veri, most on this thread have said what a brilliant performance it was, even non-fans of hers. You are so wrong.

The majority of people have at least felt that on the night against who she is against she probably deserved it. A lot of people have said though that if she was against previous 30s, such as music, she might not have got the 6s and have questioned whether she would excel to that degree at that sort of a routine as though she is a great performer she is not as competent a skater as suzanne which is pretty fair on what we've seen (especially the jump) I think. But all have also said that that isnt the standard she's judged against as well, she's judged against others on the night, she isnt up against Suzanne and Ray (unfortunately cos that would be interesting). Other than that people have just been making general comments that although she's great at performance and quite a good skater saying she's the best ever is premature with regards against ray and against Suzanne and Clare. Because although Hayley is a good skater Suzanne and Clare at this point were stronger and that Hayley needs to progress here more in the future and that her performance is alot stronger than her skating. People have also pointed out though that all the girls are different and all deserve to stand alone and it's impossible and somewhat unfair to compare them and people should just love music and jai ho as they are. I think thats been it really? All very civilised and people giving constructive criticism.

The only thing sickening in this thread is your bias, which is starting to not only become strange, but irritating. It's borderline extreme irrationality, which is not something I would ever have associated with you before. You always seemed balanced, even when we disagreed about things.

I've just taken the time to bring up the first post of EVERY SINGLE POSTER IN THIS THREAD. All 30something of them.

25 people (people, not posts) stated that they thought her 30 was 100% deserved, that it was brilliant, and some said the best ever. Many of those people said that they didn't even like her before but it turned them into fans.

3 people stated that it wasn't quite worth 30 in their eyes, but in context compared to the rest of the skaters it was, or that it was slightly overmarked but not enough to really complain about.

2 poeple stated that it was massively overmarked. Two.

How you can get "sickeningly overmarked" from that without even seeing it is beyond me. What I'm reading from "sickeningly overmarked" is "sickeningly overappreciated by everyone, am I the only one left who hates her?"

I think she is almost there to being the best female all she needs to do is just tether actual skating technique smoother.

I'd be interested to read how you came to that conclusion Veri.



No problem - but the poster was actually excluding viewers of this series - not really the basis for making an informed comparison.

That is true - but it's still comparing past with present and that is always subjective.


Not many have said she's the best ever - and even those who think so are not in a position to influence the judges' marks.

I like Danny and Hayley equally so I can offer a unbiased view and say that whilst Danny's solo spin was good, Hayley's was better. She was the only contestant to manage 4 revolutions.

Hayley was fabulous tonight and she deserved her perfect score. I will remember that routine for many years to come - absolutely iconic.

Veri....I usually try my best to let people have their own opinion...but you are SO wrong your actually watching a different SHOW !!

Why don't you just wait and watch her performance before you criticize her ...I'm getting SO sick of this, and it's the absolute height of immaturity...and now guessing your no more than 12 years old.

Sickingly overmarked ? ARGH !! Just go watch the performance. How can you possibly expect your opinion to be taken seriously when you haven't even SEEN her performance. And almost everybody on here has said she deserved her mark...so whatever posts your reading, is a completely different forum i'm afraid.

Now go watch the show...and your opinion will change.

When did Suzanne get marks that good? I think a post above said not 'till the final.

Can I just add....of course Hayley will never be as good as Ray. But PLEASE remember people that Hayley started learning to skate when this competition started. She has NEVER skated before...and I think to pull out a performance like that is just incredible.

Ray skated for absolute years before taking part in the show...so obviously he will always be better.

Have you now watched it - if so you will realise that Hayley did 4 rotations compared to Danny's 2; though I'm the first to agree that Danny put in an excellent performance tonight - well worthy of 2nd place.

If the show is scaled to represent the quality of the competition then Hayley deserved 30.
That kind of scoring is good for the current series but not good if you want to compare dancers over the years.

I was, however suprised when I saw many comments on this thread from people saying that this was the best routine they'd ever seen. That was why I started posting on this thread.

I would have thought someone being `sickeningly` overmarked meant they were scored 30 and possibly only deserved maybe 20.

IF she was overmarked it was only by a maximum of .5 from each judge. If Nicky could give Gary a 5 for his routine - Hayley definitely deserved 6 <or maybe even 7!>

I think elements like the jump and the amount of solo skating and her use of edges makes her somewhat off that. If she was able to do the footwork in suzannes week 7 music routine by the final I'd be really surprised. But she wont have to... Hayley's strong point isnt her skating, its her performance and i think even if her skating stays at the same point she'll still win. People are strong at different things, suzanne and clare were more skaters than Hayley, she gives more of a performance. I think thats fair enough. Someone doesnt always need to be the best ever to win their series although itv likes to make them out to be cos they want each one to be better than the other. Hayley is the best girl performer, I'm pretty sure it'll stay that way but that doesnt mean her skating isnt good.

Danny still did a good job of the required element, contrary to the statement that Hayley was the only one who did a good job of it.

Halyey's routine may well have been the best tonight. I thought it was the best last week. But best on the night is not enough for 5 6s.

Not on ice he didn't .

YOU HAVEN'T EVEN WATCHED IT YET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think that's the only reason anyone started bringing up the other 30s, and everyone who did so was polite, it was just kind of an ah now dont get carried away thing.
I think people saying she was the best ever was also the only reason suzanne and ray came up. Also people were just pointing out with the suzanne and clare better skater comments, ways in which hayley can improve and that she is not the finished article.

Most people recognise she deserved it on the night, they gave gary a 5 so hayley by comparison had to get a 6.

I think I'll accept Olympic gold medal winner Robin Cousins' verdict that it was worthy of a 6

No he did not.

He danced for years to a very advanced standard - but his skating experience was no more than the odd visit to his nearest ice rink - which was in fact a distance of over 20 miles.

Ray Quinn is an exceptional all rounder who brought a natural talent to the competition - nothing to do with previous skating experience at all.

I'm a Hayley fan - as my posts prove. She is good enough to be judged on her own performances without making unsubstantiated statements about others to strenghern one's point.

Who said that?

Ray never skated, nor in case its mentioned did suzanne... Chris fountain, I think David Seaman skated and jessica skated, but I think they're the only ones. Chris being the most experienced out of them (This is not a criticism lol!!).

Kieron had done quite a bit of skating to strengthen an old rugby injury.