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'British Music is dead' - Stupid quotes from ignorant people
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If_U_Seek_Amy
08-03-2010
Originally Posted by Relugus:
“Shows like X-Factor are important because they indicate the power of the TV media over the music industry. They have always influenced it, obviously, but now they control who succeeds and fails. Where Top of the Pops used to influence and reflect, the likes of X-Factor now dictate. This is a seismic change.”

I never got the whole X-Factor has ruined the charts, looking at the top 40 right now there are only 3 X-factor singles...that means 37 other singles have come from other sources and there are only 2 X Factor albums in the top 40 leaving 38 non-Xfactor albums. People give it way to much credit!!!
Ezenden
08-03-2010
Originally Posted by JoJo2:
“Music purist, me? You obviously don't know my musical tastes then do you!

I'm anything but a music snob, but any idiot who observes the popular music scene in America would tell you that by and large - the creativity dried up somewhere in the early/mid 90s! You have rap/hip hop/R&B/pop which is the staple diet for American music consumption and recently, to be "creative" you have them mixing country/rap or R&B/pop or any other 2 genre's you care to think of.

More recently they've started leaning towards European style music with faux indie bands and cheap electro dance but GaGa/Plain White T is like Gina G/Oasis circa 1995. A bit like the valid observation that Leona Lewis is a cheap Mariah imitation circa 1990! Nothing original or creative there, just shameless imitation.”

You've just proved the point further though.

Quote:
“clearly don't bother to listen to anything other than what's on commercial radio”

What's popular, commercial or in the charts (everything you've mentioned) is not the be all and end all of the American music scene, which you claim has been stagnant for 10-15 years. It's a drop in the ocean.
LoveBug.
08-03-2010
Originally Posted by SickPuppy21:
“People who make this assumption are probably middle aged people (no offense) pissed off because music in this country has grown in a way they didn't want it to.

Yet we're pretty good when it comes to electropop/synthpop and DJ's as well as rock, plus all the americans coming over saying how much better it is in the UK/Europe than it is in America, Jay-Z, Lady GaGa, Ke$ha (she sucks I know)

Oh thats right if it isnt performed on a guitar it isnt music.

If you go looking you'll find something, you'll think differently, stop listening to the balding rockstars and look for new rock bands, there are plenty.”


AMEN!
JoJo2
08-03-2010
Originally Posted by Ezenden:
“You've just proved the point further though.



What's popular, commercial or in the charts (everything you've mentioned) is not the be all and end all of the American music scene, which you claim has been stagnant for 10-15 years. It's a drop in the ocean.”

I know it's not the be all and end all of the music industry but none the less, it IS the music industry so it's a valid observation.

About 90% of the music I like doesn't even make it into the charts but when people refer to the music indusrty and complain about it, they generally refer to the charts.
Karl Rove
08-03-2010
I use to like British music in the 90's becuase it was like the 60's and 70's rolled in one.

You had Dance and Brit Pop and Pyschelia it was like are own style before that it was like people were being hard to be american.
Ezenden
08-03-2010
Originally Posted by JoJo2:
“I know it's not the be all and end all of the music industry but none the less, it IS the music industry so it's a valid observation.

About 90% of the music I like doesn't even make it into the charts but when people refer to the music indusrty and complain about it, they generally refer to the charts.”

The point of the thread is that the charts are not the music industry, people who think in such a way are wrong, and if so many people didn't just have their music spoon fed to them, they'd never make such "XXXXXX is dead" claims in the first place.
Ezenden
08-03-2010
Post not showing.............
krazer
08-03-2010
Musics nowhere near as good as it was in the 90's imo never mind the rest.

If it wasnt for Kasabian then thinking about the state of music would be overwhelmingly depressing!
Leeah
08-03-2010
Yeah these days just full of Leona Lewis , JLS , Alexandra, Lady Gaga (she's good i admit, but just sick of seeing/hearing her everywhere) ........................ :yawn:
leosw4
08-03-2010
Originally Posted by krazer:
“Musics nowhere near as good as it was in the 90's imo never mind the rest.

If it wasnt for Kasabian then thinking about the state of music would be overwhelmingly depressing!”

The 90s probably was the last decade of major creativity.

I count the Spice Girls in that even! Ok the talent was limited but they where a good laugh and added a bit of colour to the pop scene.

Brit pop was probably the last 'big event'.

Blandness seems to rule these days. Personality has been sucked out of the artists (well most of them).

I was (and continue to be) a dance music fan. That had the life sucked out it. But like other posters have said, if you look hard enough you can find decent stuff on the radio.

And thats away from Radio 1,2 etc
Over By Yer!
08-03-2010
Two of my favourite British Bands

www.thereasoning.com

www.karnataka.netmx.co.uk

Who says British music is dead?
aquaplex
08-03-2010
Originally Posted by leosw4:
“I was (and continue to be) a dance music fan. That had the life sucked out it. But like other posters have said, if you look hard enough you can find decent stuff on the radio.

And thats away from Radio 1,2 etc”

Chart wise, the stupid 20 minute ruling caused the death of the dance music in he charts. Sure, it continued to be massive in 1999/2000, but original versions and remixes would be butchered so they could fit in to the 20 minute rule and thus people began downloading club tracks en masse to get the proper full versions. When the 20 minute rule got lifted, it was all too late...
Tom8592
08-03-2010
Originally Posted by Over By Yer!:
“Two of my favourite British Bands

www.thereasoning.com

Who says British music is dead?”

Jesus H Christ!

They look more like the cast of a horror movie.
Scratchy7929
08-03-2010
Originally Posted by Pitman:
“it didn't take them long though, if there is a truly great band out there, then we won't have to search for them.”

Plenty of good stuff out there though - that you do have to dig out a little bit though.This is particularly the case in cross-genre type of music.They are not recognised in any particular genre because alot say they are not being true to the nyche genre they belong too - if they even belong to that genre at all even / or used to & have moved on to expand their sound a little.
Two rock bands you could catergorised as cross-genre are Radiohead & Muse - although both have used a strong element of pop in their sound at times to gain popularity.Alot of cross-genre bands do not rely so heavily on a pop sound.
I am disappointed with amount of Indie landfile / indie-nikit (including Madchester revivalists / rave rock) bands out there at the moment - whether signed to a Major or even unsigned / minor indie label.My arguement would be if it sounds good play it.Don't be too influenced by a type of sound - have confidence about standing out a bit - breaking away from the genre you are recognised as belonging to.The 2 bands above have done it & been successful in doing it.Not saying I want identikit Radiohead's or Muse's (Radihead seems to have a few of them already to a certain extent).Identikit rock doesn't seem to work today the way it in the '60's etc. - or not that commercially successful (Early to mid noughties it did work commercially perhaps).The opposite seems to be so in the out & out pop market especially with R&B (hip/hop) & synth pop, however.
Read an article yesterday about Wonky-pop which is pop that is supposed to come up from the underground as opposed to the overnight / instant success / hype created big venue playing 'pop' celebrities that seem to appear these days.Kind of support it - but am also a big sceptical about it as well.
Scratchy7929
08-03-2010
Originally Posted by Over By Yer!:
“Two of my favourite British Bands

www.thereasoning.com

www.karnataka.netmx.co.uk

Who says British music is dead?”

Know about The Reasoning (am following them on twitter actually).Matthew Cohen (the long blonde haired bass player who is married to the female singer in front of the picture) doesn't live far from me http://www.twitter.com/TheReasoning .Don't know so much about Karnataka but I know that a few of their members have moved onto The Reasoning.I think both suffer from the identikit syndrome.This time to Classic Rock / Neo Progressive though.Can't fault their musicianship.Some (or parts) of the Reasonings songs are excellent.Just wish they would try to keep to an original sound they are quite capable of - may happen on their new album.Don't think this band will appeal to the Indie kids (or aging Indie kids now) though like the progressive rock that Muse play.

How about Oceansize (http://twitter.com/RealOceansize ; http://www.oceansize.co.uk/ ).There's a good example of a cross-genre / original sounding band for you.

You might recognise this from the Orange (?) advert http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7oWTPbdpD0
Tom8592
08-03-2010
Originally Posted by Scratchy7929:
“Know about The Reasoning (am following them on twitter actually).Matthew Cohen (the long blonde haired bass player who is married to the female singer in front of the picture) doesn't live far from me”

Oh , its a man
Scratchy7929
09-03-2010
Originally Posted by Tom8592:
“Oh , its a man”

Yeah! yeah! very funny.Got any original jokes

Check this Oceansize out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8CZNX-uuhI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r0tawQwEnc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTsnXZNFIjk
Scratchy7929
09-03-2010
Originally Posted by If_U_Seek_Amy:
“I never got the whole X-Factor has ruined the charts, looking at the top 40 right now there are only 3 X-factor singles...that means 37 other singles have come from other sources and there are only 2 X Factor albums in the top 40 leaving 38 non-Xfactor albums. People give it way to much credit!!!”

We're not in the X-factor season at he moment are we though.Far too much R&B (hip/hop) autotunesd stuff around at the moment though.Other than that you've got the twee pop of Pixie pop etc. or Synth pop type stuff (including trash pop such as Gaga & Ke$ha).Very little apart from that.Hope Florence & the machines / Marina & the diamonds (although still synth pop parcially) take off to break up the monopoly of this other stuff.Don't listen to Radio 1 personally but alot of it does cross over to TV which I watch alot of.What is wrong with BBC haven't they heard of variety ???
Iceman09
09-03-2010
Originally Posted by Scratchy7929:
“We're not in the X-factor season at he moment are we though.Far too much R&B (hip/hop) autotunesd stuff around at the moment though.Other than that you've got the twee pop of Pixie pop etc. or Synth pop type stuff (including trash pop such as Gaga & Ke$ha).Very little apart from that.Hope Florence & the machines / Marina & the diamonds (although still synth pop parcially) take off to break up the monopoly of this other stuff.Don't listen to Radio 1 personally but alot of it does cross over to TV which I watch alot of.What is wrong with BBC haven't they heard of variety ???”

obviously not considering that they are getting rid of Radio 6
David Tee
09-03-2010
(whoops - wrong post)
haim100
09-03-2010
Totally agree with the original poster.

It's funny how people that make comments like this are always either over a certain age, like a certain niche music style, or just dislike contemporary music in general with no real reason, other than they've never given it a chance.

People are probably always going to like the music they grew up to best. Not everyone can move with the times when they get to a certain age...that's probably a continuous thing that will happen as the generations grow older. I'm sure the younger generation will remember the music around today in many years time, and be saying the same to their kids!
David Tee
09-03-2010
Originally Posted by haim100:
“Totally agree with the original poster.

It's funny how people that make comments like this are always either over a certain age, like a certain niche music style, or just dislike contemporary music in general with no real reason, other than they've never given it a chance.

People are probably always going to like the music they grew up to best. Not everyone can move with the times when they get to a certain age...that's probably a continuous thing that will happen as the generations grow older. I'm sure the younger generation will remember the music around today in many years time, and be saying the same to their kids!”

Alternatively, it could be that they DO know what they're talking about and what they're saying is true.

Your argument, and that of the OP, is based on the idea that old people just don't "get" today's music. While that's certainly the case to a large extent - it's also another gross generalisation (the other one is that British Music is dead). The fact - and it IS a fact - is that music goes through periods when the overall standard is high, and other times when it is low. That's nothing new, it's been doing that for centuries. You can take genres such as Jazz and Classical and find peaks and troughs all over the place.

So, if the question is "Is today's British music generally up to the same standard as previous years?" IMO, not a chance. Remember, I'm not saying there's NO good music. There most certainly is. I'm saying that the overall standard is very low.

Once of the best music books ever written is Ian McDonald's book on the Beatles "Revolution In The Head". McDonald was a extremely well respected music journalist who crossed genres (he wrote a brilliant book on Shostakovitch, too) . His book on the Beatles is bookended by a couple of great articles that relate to the 60's and to what followed after The Beatles split up. Not unnaturally, he turns his attention to the quality of the music.

He is utterly damning in his criticism that today's music is a pale shadow of what preceded it. Here are just a few quotes..

"In whatever genre and of whatever artistic standard, the singles of the Sixties were as a rule more memorable, inventive and affecting than those of today".

"Most of today's sounds are synthetic, clogging frequencies and adding to the general sense of aural asphyxiation. The result of this (and other factors) has been the gradual replacement of expressive skills by technical ones - the decline in subtlety of songwriting and instrumental finesse mirrored by a monstrous efflorescence of boffin expertise in sound manufacture and studio craft."

"Dominated by the synthetic slam of the sequenced off-beat - modern songs are regularised and formulised, their harmonic movements banal and predictable, their vocal lines devoid of independent melody and constructed from prefabricated melodic/lyric cliches bolted together."

"The difference between the Sixties and what came after it are epitomised by the loss of one vital element - the unexpected"

and, most tellingly..

"A staple belief among critics is that what changes in pop is not its objective level of "soul" and inspiration, but the subjective points of view of commentators as they get older and less involved with it. In the end, of course, such matters are subjective - yet the paucity of relativism will be clear to anyone with a modicum of musical instinct and an ounce of common sense"

In other words..you only need to use your ears to hear for yourself that it doesn't compare.

If you feel that today's British music is brilliant - great, lap it up, whatever turns you on. However, if you really want to stand there and say that its as good as it's ever been, and that old people don't know what they're talking about (because they're old) - be prepared for others to say that you're talking rubbish and you're too young to know any better.
mushymanrob
09-03-2010
its all very well saying 'theres good music around if you know where to look for it' .... but the facts are that in the past you didnt HAVE to 'look' for it, it was there in your face.

now im not saying that music is dead, it isnt, thats silly, but there is a total lack of ORIGINALITY.... ok, maybe it has all been done before and maybe there isnt much that can be discovered.

as a middle aged bloke, i find it frustrating that you young buggers havnt seemingly got your own styles, you seem to be just re-hashing the styles that MY generations created.
haim100
09-03-2010
Well that's your opinion. Saying that music is not up to standard it has been in previous years, is YOUR opinion, who made you the official judge of how good music is?

Surely the only way music can be judged is on its popularity. In music there is no right and wrong...there are no rules. How can you say something is better than something else, WITHOUT it being your opinion?

In my opinion, music at the moment is better than it has ever been . But I can't cite that as fact, nor can you cite it as fact that is is poorer.

Saying that today's artist copy styles from artists of your generation is a bit hypocritical. That has always been the pattern. I'm sure artists of your generation took influence from artists before them, too.
JoJo2
09-03-2010
Originally Posted by David Tee:
“Alternatively, it could be that they DO know what they're talking about and what they're saying is true.

Your argument, and that of the OP, is based on the idea that old people just don't "get" today's music. While that's certainly the case to a large extent - it's also another gross generalisation (the other one is that British Music is dead). The fact - and it IS a fact - is that music goes through periods when the overall standard is high, and other times when it is low. That's nothing new, it's been doing that for centuries. You can take genres such as Jazz and Classical and find peaks and troughs all over the place.

So, if the question is "Is today's British music generally up to the same standard as previous years?" IMO, not a chance. Remember, I'm not saying there's NO good music. There most certainly is. I'm saying that the overall standard is very low.

Once of the best music books ever written is Ian McDonald's book on the Beatles "Revolution In The Head". McDonald was a extremely well respected music journalist who crossed genres (he wrote a brilliant book on Shostakovitch, too) . His book on the Beatles is bookended by a couple of great articles that relate to the 60's and to what followed after The Beatles split up. Not unnaturally, he turns his attention to the quality of the music.

He is utterly damning in his criticism that today's music is a pale shadow of what preceded it. Here are just a few quotes..

"In whatever genre and of whatever artistic standard, the singles of the Sixties were as a rule more memorable, inventive and affecting than those of today".

"Most of today's sounds are synthetic, clogging frequencies and adding to the general sense of aural asphyxiation. The result of this (and other factors) has been the gradual replacement of expressive skills by technical ones - the decline in subtlety of songwriting and instrumental finesse mirrored by a monstrous efflorescence of boffin expertise in sound manufacture and studio craft."

"Dominated by the synthetic slam of the sequenced off-beat - modern songs are regularised and formulised, their harmonic movements banal and predictable, their vocal lines devoid of independent melody and constructed from prefabricated melodic/lyric cliches bolted together."

"The difference between the Sixties and what came after it are epitomised by the loss of one vital element - the unexpected"

and, most tellingly..

"A staple belief among critics is that what changes in pop is not its objective level of "soul" and inspiration, but the subjective points of view of commentators as they get older and less involved with it. In the end, of course, such matters are subjective - yet the paucity of relativism will be clear to anyone with a modicum of musical instinct and an ounce of common sense"

In other words..you only need to use your ears to hear for yourself that it doesn't compare.

If you feel that today's British music is brilliant - great, lap it up, whatever turns you on. However, if you really want to stand there and say that its as good as it's ever been, and that old people don't know what they're talking about (because they're old) - be prepared for others to say that you're talking rubbish and you're too young to know any better.”

This is pretty much how I feel and I'm only 22! Daren't say too much on the subject of it though for fear of being called a purist, music snob etc etc.

The music I grew up with was genius (even if I do say so myself); Jimmy Hendrix, Sam Cooke et al! I mean, lets not kid ourselves, production line level music was around even in the 60s. Take a look at Motown, as great as it was, it was a production line, but the real difference lies in the quotes.

The formula for Motown was to have a writing session, have a music session, give the singer the score and record live in a few takes. You had the genius of instrumental interpretation, vocal expression and great songwriting. The formula for today lies somewhere between grabbing an idiot from a talent show like Leona, Jordin Sparks, Alexandra Burke, pair them up with a computer geek, have a totally synthetic sound and sing in a way that is totally prompted by someone else. Devoid of all interpretation and personality... But hey, lets not forget to piss ourselves with excitement when Leona reaches for yet another C6 flourish

"omg she hit a C6, wowowowow, wet yourself! She can hold a note for 14 seconds, zomg!" And if they aren't having orgasms in synch with her predictable, emotionally devoid, producer-prompted vocal tics, it's just chart analysis and radio airplay analysis. As boring and robotic as the music!
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