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Better Skaters Get Better Choreography - Unfair?


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Old 07-03-2010, 23:13
ABCZYX
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Does anyone think it's unfair that the celebrities who perform the best get the better choreography? The reason I'm asking this is because on Strictly, each performance is more or less of the same difficulty, (but obviously they each differ in how well they're performed to).

Whereas with DOI, T&D seem to give the best routines to the celebrities who are doing the best in the show.

Personally, I don't think this is fair. Whilst I'm not denying that Hayley wasn't fantastic tonight because she clearly was, it's just I found the routine so much more professional than the others, who just seemed to skate round the ice and then perform a new lift on each turn. I noticed it with Ray last year. He always had the better routines because he was the best. But with Strictly, it feels like each couple's routines more or less have the same level of difficulty.
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Old 07-03-2010, 23:18
Kyle123
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Isnt it just common sense though? Someone who cant skate very well is less limited to what they can do on the ice, whereas a good skater can handle more advanced dancing because they dont need to worry as much about what their doing.
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Old 08-03-2010, 00:14
TraceyUK
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It's because Hayley can cope with a more difficult routine whereas the others would find her routines too difficult.
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Old 08-03-2010, 00:17
Eejit
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Surely it's just common sense that T+D can generally give the better skaters more interesting routines.

I don't think any of the other girls this series could have done the routine Hayley did.
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Old 08-03-2010, 00:18
gazb2
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I'm sorry...but thread is completely pointless.

Could you really imagine Daniella or Emily or Heather Mills attempting a routine like Hayley's tonight ?!? She could handle it...so she got it.
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Old 08-03-2010, 00:20
K_evans
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I agree with you to a certain extent in that some people such as Daniella a have gotten crap routines in past weeks and should have been given something better. They do have to cater to ability in the routines though and it's always been that way and it has to be to a certain extent. Can you imagine if they gave the same cheorography for Ray, Chris or Suzanne to someone mediocre? They'd do themselves damage. Remember this is on ice not just a dance floor so its different to strictly, if you give someone something they can't do the potential for injury is far far greater. They try and pitch things just above what the celebrity can do. Sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't.
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Old 08-03-2010, 00:53
ladygardener
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I don't know why Daniella is being praised so much by the judges, nor why she was kept in tonight. Maybe Mikey isn't one of the better male skaters, but at least he skates by himself and lifts his partner. Tonight all Daniella did by herself was skate across the ice to the centre right at the beginning of her programme and then do the spin, which her partner pushed her into. She gets much easier routines than Hayley because she cannot skate anywhere near as well.

Meanwhile, most of the male celebs get slated for not trying hard enough, not turning their feet in or out etc. etc. but they skate by themselves and it must be much harder for them than the female celebs.
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:04
eunicelouise658
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I think as things get more difficult week by week skaters who previously did well cannot step up and just cannot cope with the complicated routines. Every year when someone does really well and outshines the ability of others people will find a new way to knock or critisize them. T & D are good judges of people capabilities they know who they can really stretch and who will not be able to handle it.
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:52
tabithakitten
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It's pretty clear that better skaters get more complicated choreography which in turn looks more impressive. Obvious really.
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:16
Veri
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Isnt it just common sense though? Someone who cant skate very well is less limited to what they can do on the ice, whereas a good skater can handle more advanced dancing because they dont need to worry as much about what their doing.
It's because Hayley can cope with a more difficult routine whereas the others would find her routines too difficult.
Surely it's just common sense that T+D can generally give the better skaters more interesting routines.

I don't think any of the other girls this series could have done the routine Hayley did.
A lot of Hayley's routine didn't involve difficult skating.

In any case, better choreography doesn't have to involve harder skating, and there are celebs who could handle much better routines than they been getting.

I think Daniella, for example, has been getting poor routines for weeks now (also ones that don't develop or show her skating very well), and I think that's killed her chances in this series.
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:21
Veri
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It's pretty clear that better skaters get more complicated choreography which in turn looks more impressive. Obvious really.
One of Daniella's recent routines had some complicated stepping. I still think it was a poor routine, though. More complicated does not always come through as more impressive, nor is it the only way to be impressive.

I don't think the choreographers are doing a very good job for some of the celebs.
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:25
Timothy Bryce
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I'm sorry...but thread is completely pointless.

Could you really imagine Daniella or Emily or Heather Mills attempting a routine like Hayley's tonight ?!? She could handle it...so she got it.
I could see Daniella doing Hayley's choreography pretty well and then just hanging onto her partner until her next part of the routine
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:29
tabithakitten
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One of Daniella's recent routines had some complicated stepping. I still think it was a poor routine, though. More complicated does not always come through as more impressive, nor is it the only way to be impressive.

I don't think the choreographers are doing a very good job for some of the celebs.
Okay, fair enough. Insert the word "often" before "looks more impressive" in my OP .
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:01
thenetworkbabe
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Does anyone think it's unfair that the celebrities who perform the best get the better choreography? The reason I'm asking this is because on Strictly, each performance is more or less of the same difficulty, (but obviously they each differ in how well they're performed to).

Whereas with DOI, T&D seem to give the best routines to the celebrities who are doing the best in the show.

Personally, I don't think this is fair. Whilst I'm not denying that Hayley wasn't fantastic tonight because she clearly was, it's just I found the routine so much more professional than the others, who just seemed to skate round the ice and then perform a new lift on each turn. I noticed it with Ray last year. He always had the better routines because he was the best. But with Strictly, it feels like each couple's routines more or less have the same level of difficulty.
Its not true on Strictly either. Some people on Strictly will have pros who get it wrong and some who are better than others . The pros can tailor more to their celebs ability but its not a level playing field then either. Ola overachieves with weak dancers and just won with a mediocre one. Other people might have done better with a different pro last year.

There's only so many really good routines on DOI - which is either just a fact in the same way there are few great stories or films or actors and inevitable - or its a problem. I agree Daniella and Emily's routines look like a lack of imagination was at work. Theragain though I got the impression last year that Roxanne was trying the wrong things, Melinda wasn't being developed enough and Ray was crying out for a top routine he never got.

Hayley's routine couldn't be done by anyone else and it had some of Suzanne's big lifts that got her a 6 too plus the multiple spin which probably gets you to a 6 anyway - but it looked even better because it had a clear theme and someone who knew their stuff choregraphing the detail. I don't think Daniella can get to 30, but i wonder if she could have got into the 20s if they had hired the choregrapher from Grease for a day? Its difficult to tell though, as, if you made most of them pay more attention to the detail, it would be too much on top of learning the basics, doing the element and not falling over.
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Old 08-03-2010, 07:09
bornfree
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I'm sorry...but thread is completely pointless.

Could you really imagine Daniella or Emily or Heather Mills attempting a routine like Hayley's tonight ?!? She could handle it...so she got it.
Actually I think Emily would have. She had started to skate a lot on her own. I say this and I am not a fan of hers. Infact if she was still around, she would be ahead of the others. Daniella just peaked too early.
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Old 08-03-2010, 07:25
norbitonite
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Really? Emily, by her own mother's admission, was lazy. Hayley had to really apply herself this week to master not only the skating and the required element, but also an entirely new (to her) style of dancing. I don't think Emily would've had the work ethic for it, aside from any other consideration.
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Old 08-03-2010, 08:09
calamity
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for this type of perfomance, being a dancer or having dance training is a great advantage .
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Old 08-03-2010, 08:25
Sallyforth
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I do think that to some extent you are at the mercy of your material. Some music is more likely to lend itself to a crowd pleasing performance or to allow you to include more interesting/difficult moves. Of course to some extent they are being given routines according to their apparent ability but, for example last night, Gary spent valuable seconds doing what I can only describe as shimmying, of course this was in tribute to the music and the original performance he'd been asked to emulate, but he may have been better off having more skating to do.
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Old 08-03-2010, 08:49
CaroUK
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They are at the mercy of the choreography.

It was really noticeable last night that Daniella's routine was highly lift based with very little independent skating. It's a shame because she can and has (even in week 1!) skated confidently and strongly on her own. Whilst I don't really support the "get 'er out 'cos she isn't doing the tour!" conspiracy theories - it was pretty obvious that what she was asked to do last night wasn't a fair representation of her full range of abilities.

Given the huge fuss made over Sharrongate where she dared to question the choreography given, I'm sure that none of the celebs will now DARE to go against T&D, even though I'm sure they must have noticed that Hayley in particular DOES get routines which show her off.

I'm not sure that Daniella would have pulled off Jai Ho with such flair and panache as Hayley did, but I think she was capable of most of it had she been given the chance at such a stunning routine.
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Old 08-03-2010, 09:02
Bob22A
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I agree with you to a certain extent in that some people such as Daniella a have gotten crap routines in past weeks and should have been given something better. They do have to cater to ability in the routines though and it's always been that way and it has to be to a certain extent. Can you imagine if they gave the same cheorography for Ray, Chris or Suzanne to someone mediocre? They'd do themselves damage. Remember this is on ice not just a dance floor so its different to strictly, if you give someone something they can't do the potential for injury is far far greater. They try and pitch things just above what the celebrity can do. Sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't.

Daniella had a great routine lst night. She just did not do it justice. She has just not lived up to her early promise and most of the others have caught up and even overtaken her

It was Clear last night that Hayley & Kierron were the best & Mickey the worst. There was not a lot in it between the others
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Old 08-03-2010, 09:21
blueabu
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It's pretty clear that better skaters get more complicated choreography which in turn looks more impressive. Obvious really.
Just what I wanted to say. But I also think that the Hayley knockers are having a hard time since last night's performance and are clutching at straws to find something to have a go at!
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Old 08-03-2010, 09:31
Lorelei Lee
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It was really noticeable last night that Daniella's routine was highly lift based with very little independent skating. It's a shame because she can and has (even in week 1!) skated confidently and strongly on her own. Whilst I don't really support the "get 'er out 'cos she isn't doing the tour!" conspiracy theories - it was pretty obvious that what she was asked to do last night wasn't a fair representation of her full range of abilities.

Given the huge fuss made over Sharrongate where she dared to question the choreography given, I'm sure that none of the celebs will now DARE to go against T&D, even though I'm sure they must have noticed that Hayley in particular DOES get routines which show her off.

I'm not sure that Daniella would have pulled off Jai Ho with such flair and panache as Hayley did, but I think she was capable of most of it had she been given the chance at such a stunning routine.
Big fan of this theory. Danniella's routine had bog-all solo skating in it and nothing like the dance steps she's previously had to work with. Hayley's routine was in large part all about the complex dance steps - if you'd taken those out then I don't think the skating that remained was massively difficult.

That said, Danniella didn't do a particularly special job with what she was given last night - Mikey had limited content and managed to give what I thought was a more emotive performance.

Danniella admitted she'd had a rough week and wasn't feeling herself, and from the sound of the judges' comments, they've got it down as a confidence issue as well.

A great 'storytelling' routine by T&D would definitely boost her chances of staying in, so let's see if they can give her one next week - if not, the conspiracy theory gathers weight for me
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Old 08-03-2010, 09:37
CaroUK
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Daniella had a great routine lst night. She just did not do it justice. She has just not lived up to her early promise and most of the others have caught up and even overtaken her

It was Clear last night that Hayley & Kierron were the best & Mickey the worst. There was not a lot in it between the others
As I said above - the celebs and their partners are at the mercy of the choreography given to them by T&D. Having seen what happened to Sharron and Pavel a couple of weeks ago - I'd be surprised if any of them DARED to question the choreo or make changes.

Daniella's routine last night consisted of lift after lift after lift with precious little skating until she did her spin at the very end. The whole thing was deathly boring to watch, and didn't allow her to show off her acting and skating skills (and she CAN actually skate very well on her own when allowed to!).

She and Matthew did not choreograph their routine - T&D allegedly did all of it - so they must take the blame for a boring and bland routine instead of the blistering one it could have been - but not necessarily to summer nights.....

Hayley's routine on the other hand was absolutely brilliant. Great choice of music, lots of action, lots of dance moves (especially the arms and head) and that routine stood out above all others. Poor Danniella's was just Meh! in comparison.

It would be interesting to see Danniella and Hayley dance each other's routine from last night. I don't think Hayley could have done much more than Danniella did with the Grease routine.

That said - I do agree that Hayley and Kieron were the best last night - and Mikey the worst. I didn't get all the Danny love from the panel at all.
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Old 08-03-2010, 09:48
Eejit
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Daniella's routine last night consisted of lift after lift after lift with precious little skating until she did her spin at the very end. The whole thing was deathly boring to watch, and didn't allow her to show off her acting and skating skills (and she CAN actually skate very well on her own when allowed to!).
I agree a bit with that - Daniella's routine was pretty awful, and was never going to give her a big chance to shine. Having said that, given the amount of time she wasn't being lifted was extremely limited, there was no excuse for her not being much better in those sections, and in the spin. She didn't do the best with what she was given this week, even if what she was given was pretty crappy. And I'm normally a big fan.

Have to concur with everyone that Hayley and Kieron were the best tonight by some margin (I think even the judges realised that Kieron was better than Danny in truth, given Jason and Robin's comments at the end). They also had the best routines, but that's because they're the ones capable of pulling them off. Had Hayley's routine been given to any of the other girls, it would have been a disaster. Likewise with Kieron's had it been given to any of the other boys. They've both got the skills and personality to pull off the most interesting routines.
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Old 08-03-2010, 09:50
gazb2
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One of Daniella's recent routines had some complicated stepping. I still think it was a poor routine, though. More complicated does not always come through as more impressive, nor is it the only way to be impressive.

I don't think the choreographers are doing a very good job for some of the celebs.
Will all due respect, but Daniella clearly has very limited skating ability, and the choreographers are just trying their best with what they have to work with. Daniella doesn't skate on her own AT ALL...and last night, she did a wee solo spin that she was pushed into....so start blaming Daniella and not the choreographers - it's not their fault she can't skate.
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