DS Forums

 
 

Better Skaters Get Better Choreography - Unfair?


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-03-2010, 10:01
Jan2555*GG*
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,922
It isnt true to say that the coreography on Strictly is the same level for all the couples. Obviously they are not dancing on blades so there will always be less of a difference but some celebs on Strictly get harder steps because they are capable of doing them. The judges on Strictly often comment on the difficulty of a routine as compared to the other couples. Also the Pros on Strictly (who do their own routines) have sometimes been picked up by the judges for making the routines either too hard or too easy.
Jan2555*GG* is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 08-03-2010, 10:11
scorpiogran
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 706
I'm sorry...but thread is completely pointless.

Could you really imagine Daniella or Emily or Heather Mills attempting a routine like Hayley's tonight ?!? She could handle it...so she got it.
Exactly!.
scorpiogran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 10:15
lach doch mal
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sofas are deities
Posts: 16,123
I think better performers/skaters get better choreography because they can deal with it. If you go back one year, you could have said that giving Ray Robin's signature jump was unfair, because the public would be more impressed with it than they would be with a normal "hop". However, not many people on DOI could do that jump.

It would be unfair to give better people boring choreography so that the same level could be maintained for all the couples (e.g. last year, Ray would have had to skate to Coleen's level:yawn:, and this year people would have had to skate to Dr Hilary's level:yawn
lach doch mal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 10:37
Tissy
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Pembrokeshire.
Posts: 40,686
Actually I think Emily would have. She had started to skate a lot on her own. I say this and I am not a fan of hers. Infact if she was still around, she would be ahead of the others. Daniella just peaked too early.
You make it sound as though Emily went out weeks ago - she only left last week.
Tissy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 10:38
daziechain
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Running up that hill
Posts: 8,256
A lot of Hayley's routine didn't involve difficult skating.

In any case, better choreography doesn't have to involve harder skating, and there are celebs who could handle much better routines than they been getting.

I think Daniella, for example, has been getting poor routines for weeks now (also ones that don't develop or show her skating very well), and I think that's killed her chances in this series.
You must be kidding .. Daniella's routine this week was mostly in-lift .. her required element was terrible and her transitions are awful. Her routines have been quite simple .. she should be executing them with ease by now.

Hayley did four rotations in her required element .. how can you say that's not difficult skating when Daniella could hardly manage one.
daziechain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 10:38
gazb2
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,013
You make it sound as though Emily went out weeks ago - she only left last week.
Agreed. I think anyone that believes Emily would have been better than Hayley this week is living on a different planet.
gazb2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 10:39
number six
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 1,972
It's because Hayley can cope with a more difficult routine whereas the others would find her routines too difficult.
She must be a joy for Chris and Jayne to choreograph for, they can push her to the limits and give her difficult routines and she gives it everything she's got. I love watching her and Dan!
number six is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 10:42
CaroUK
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,168
But in all the VTs we have seen - Daniella comes across as someone who just gets on with what she's been asked to do - no moaning, no complaining, hardly any excuses - just a lot of hard work.

She showed in week 1 that she can skate confidently on her own, and her routine to the Dusty Springfield number was excellent. Her tango routine was the nearest we have come to seeing REAL ice dancing in the whole series (it was almost a compulsory dance routine). Last night's routine with all the lifts meant that the skating she did do was wobbly as a lot of the celebs have problems exiting the lifts smoothly - and Daniella had more than most to deal with.

As I said in an earlier post I think she would have given Hayley's routine a pretty good shot, but without Hayleys extensive dance experience, probably wouldn't have done quite so well with it.

I'd like to see her be given more challenging stuff to do - because I think she would manage it.
CaroUK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 10:47
number six
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 1,972
I have got the impression over the past couple of weeks that Daniella is struggling with fitness, she doesn't moan and complain but she looks very tired and as if she is in pain!
number six is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 10:51
Bob22A
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,744
She must be a joy for Chris and Jayne to choreograph for, they can push her to the limits and give her difficult routines and she gives it everything she's got. I love watching her and Dan!

She clearly works very hard at getting the routines right.

She was clearly disapointed with her performance the last week
Bob22A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 11:22
cazzbar
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,661
I believe the pro's should do the choreography and not T&D. That way the routines would match the performance level of their celeb. This happens in SCD so you never know what the routine will be like. I think Daniella has had boring choreography the last two weeks and that is reflected in the voting.

Some of the routines this year is just going round and round the ice with a lift, round and round with a lift. :yawn::yawn::yawn: It isn't very inspiring.
cazzbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 11:56
Bandita
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Aberdeen/shire
Posts: 3,367
I believe the pro's should do the choreography and not T&D. That way the routines would match the performance level of their celeb. This happens in SCD so you never know what the routine will be like. I think Daniella has had boring choreography the last two weeks and that is reflected in the voting.

Some of the routines this year is just going round and round the ice with a lift, round and round with a lift. :yawn::yawn::yawn: It isn't very inspiring.
I tend to agree with you, the pro's should at least have a good input, it might be better for showcasing their celebs strengths.
Bandita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 12:20
Bob22A
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,744
I believe the pro's should do the choreography and not T&D. That way the routines would match the performance level of their celeb. This happens in SCD so you never know what the routine will be like. I think Daniella has had boring choreography the last two weeks and that is reflected in the voting.

Some of the routines this year is just going round and round the ice with a lift, round and round with a lift. :yawn::yawn::yawn: It isn't very inspiring.

They probably do do you seriously thing T&D come up with all the routines in a few hour?
Bob22A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 12:23
Droog83
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 202
I believe the pro's should do the choreography and not T&D. That way the routines would match the performance level of their celeb. This happens in SCD so you never know what the routine will be like. I think Daniella has had boring choreography the last two weeks and that is reflected in the voting.

Some of the routines this year is just going round and round the ice with a lift, round and round with a lift. :yawn::yawn::yawn: It isn't very inspiring.
Agreed. Hayley's routine was created by a different choreographer and it stood out a mile compared to the other routines - as you say the other more boring skate and lift, skate and lift, skate and lift routines had T&D stamped all over them. No disrespect to T&D whatsoever, they're fantastic, but I'd like to see the pros have more of an input and if not, get some more pro choreographers in.
Droog83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 13:29
daziechain
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Running up that hill
Posts: 8,256
I don't know so much if it was choreographed by someone else ... she definitely helped them perfect it .. but did they actually say it was choreograhed by someone else?

I thought, though it was definitely more Bollywood, it definitely included shades of Jayne and Chris's 'Song of India' routine in the 1985 World Pro championships.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bf4GDobUE4
daziechain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 14:22
Veri
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 90,767
I think better performers/skaters get better choreography because they can deal with it. If you go back one year, you could have said that giving Ray Robin's signature jump was unfair, because the public would be more impressed with it than they would be with a normal "hop". However, not many people on DOI could do that jump.

It would be unfair to give better people boring choreography so that the same level could be maintained for all the couples (e.g. last year, Ray would have had to skate to Coleen's level:yawn:, and this year people would have had to skate to Dr Hilary's level:yawn
That's the mistake that better means more difficult. Including someone's signature jump isn't better choreography, it's just including a flashy trick.
Veri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 14:35
Veri
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 90,767
You must be kidding .. Daniella's routine this week was mostly in-lift .. her required element was terrible and her transitions are awful. Her routines have been quite simple .. she should be executing them with ease by now.
That reply makes no sense at all.

I made it clear that I didn't mean harder skating when I said "better choreography", but your reply's written as if I was talking about how hard the skating was in Daniella's routine.

I said Daniella's been getting poor routines, and the reply "says you must be kidding" as if that were ridiculous, then goes on to give a reason why her routine this week was poor ("mostly in-lift"). You don't actually think she's been getting great routines, do you?
Hayley did four rotations in her required element .. how can you say that's not difficult skating when Daniella could hardly manage one.
I didn't say the spin wasn't difficult; I was talking of the routine as a whole, and as we've been told one lift does not make a routine.

Hayley got a routine that showed off her dancing ability in an impressive way and that masks the limitations in her skating. Unlike Hayley, Daniella has not been getting routines tailored to her strengths.
Veri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 14:36
Sib69
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,030
i think the difference between strictly and dancing on ice is that with dancing on ice, there's potential there for things to do dangerously wrong. look at when hayley fell. luckily, dan realised what was going to happen, slowed down and cushioned her head. but that could have been disastrous. and then she did a headbanger. hate to think what could have gone wrong there. i don't watch strictly, but i'm guessing they don't do moves quite like that, simply because they can't glide across the floor the same way. but, for example, mikey would never have been given a routine like hayley did last night, because if things went wrong, anything could have happened. it's much easier to slip over on ice (as we saw repeatedly last week) than it is on normal flooring. and the blades are more dangerous. you get one of those across the hand if you fall... ouch! not quite the same for strictly
Sib69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 14:46
-Sid-
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 28,896
A lot of Hayley's routine didn't involve difficult skating.

In any case, better choreography doesn't have to involve harder skating, and there are celebs who could handle much better routines than they been getting.

I think Daniella, for example, has been getting poor routines for weeks now (also ones that don't develop or show her skating very well), and I think that's killed her chances in this series.
I don't know, I quite liked the way Daniella's Grease inspired routine was put together.

She just didn't execute it all that well in places - her spin really let her down.

A few weeks back I was concerned that Daniella was capable of more than she was being asked to do. But I'm not sure that was the case after all. She's been struggling the last couple of weeks when she's been pushed.
-Sid- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 14:51
lach doch mal
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sofas are deities
Posts: 16,123
That's the mistake that better means more difficult. Including someone's signature jump isn't better choreography, it's just including a flashy trick.
I agree and maybe it was not the best comparision.
I think my point generally was, that you can only go so far with the choreography if the person you are choreographing for is not capable of doing more difficult stuff. This does not only apply to Daniella but to everyone else as well. If Coleen had had to skate Hayley's routine yesterday, it would have been a car crash..

Hayley got a routine that showed off her dancing ability in an impressive way and that masks the limitations in her skating. Unlike Hayley, Daniella has not been getting routines tailored to her strengths.
Maybe you are right, but we will never know that. Maybe T&D would have given Daniella one of Hayley's routines, but they realised that she is not capable of doing them. Maybe each week they have to adapt to Daniella's strength because what we see is all she can produce.
lach doch mal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 14:52
lach doch mal
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sofas are deities
Posts: 16,123
A few weeks back I was concerned that Daniella was capable of more than she was being asked to do. But I'm not sure that was the case after all. She's been struggling the last couple of weeks when she's been pushed.
Thanks Sid you said perfectly what I was trying to say in my post above.
lach doch mal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 14:58
yellowlabbie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 43,100
Agreed. Hayley's routine was created by a different choreographer and it stood out a mile compared to the other routines - as you say the other more boring skate and lift, skate and lift, skate and lift routines had T&D stamped all over them. No disrespect to T&D whatsoever, they're fantastic, but I'd like to see the pros have more of an input and if not, get some more pro choreographers in.
I think if T & D thought Daniella could do a 'harder' routine, they would give her one. They do it with Kieron. I am very disappointed in Daniella, I thought she was at the bottom of the pile this week. She has hardly improved, she looked like week 2 last night imo.
yellowlabbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 15:05
Veri
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 90,767
I don't know, I quite liked the way Daniella's Grease inspired routine was put together.

She just didn't execute it all that well in places - her spin really let her down.

A few weeks back I was concerned that Daniella was capable of more than she was being asked to do. But I'm not sure that was the case after all. She's been struggling the last couple of weeks when she's been pushed.
It was a poor routine for DOI for reasons that have already been given in this thread.

The pushing she's had in recent weeks has been in the wrong direction. For instance, hard to remember sequences of non-skating steps that troubled her knees and did nothing to develop or show her skating ability.

The idea that the celebs aren't being given better routines because they can't handle better routines is pretty clearly wrong and seems to be based largely on a confusion between better and more difficult.
Veri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 15:05
-Sid-
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 28,896
Thanks Sid you said perfectly what I was trying to say in my post above.
Hey you - no probs

Seems like we're on the same wavelength again!

Let's make the most of it
-Sid- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 15:07
Veri
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 90,767
I think if T & D thought Daniella could do a 'harder' routine, they would give her one. They do it with Kieron. I am very disappointed in Daniella, I thought she was at the bottom of the pile this week. She has hardly improved, she looked like week 2 last night imo.
Again the confusion that better = harder. Did you notice that the post you were answering didn't say "harder"?
Veri is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 14:54.