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Better Skaters Get Better Choreography - Unfair? |
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#26 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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It isnt true to say that the coreography on Strictly is the same level for all the couples. Obviously they are not dancing on blades so there will always be less of a difference but some celebs on Strictly get harder steps because they are capable of doing them. The judges on Strictly often comment on the difficulty of a routine as compared to the other couples. Also the Pros on Strictly (who do their own routines) have sometimes been picked up by the judges for making the routines either too hard or too easy.
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#27 |
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I'm sorry...but thread is completely pointless.
Could you really imagine Daniella or Emily or Heather Mills attempting a routine like Hayley's tonight ?!? She could handle it...so she got it. |
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#28 |
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I think better performers/skaters get better choreography because they can deal with it. If you go back one year, you could have said that giving Ray Robin's signature jump was unfair, because the public would be more impressed with it than they would be with a normal "hop". However, not many people on DOI could do that jump.
It would be unfair to give better people boring choreography so that the same level could be maintained for all the couples (e.g. last year, Ray would have had to skate to Coleen's level:yawn:, and this year people would have had to skate to Dr Hilary's level:yawn
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#29 |
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Actually I think Emily would have. She had started to skate a lot on her own. I say this and I am not a fan of hers. Infact if she was still around, she would be ahead of the others. Daniella just peaked too early.
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#30 |
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A lot of Hayley's routine didn't involve difficult skating.
In any case, better choreography doesn't have to involve harder skating, and there are celebs who could handle much better routines than they been getting. I think Daniella, for example, has been getting poor routines for weeks now (also ones that don't develop or show her skating very well), and I think that's killed her chances in this series. ![]() Hayley did four rotations in her required element .. how can you say that's not difficult skating when Daniella could hardly manage one. |
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#31 |
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You make it sound as though Emily went out weeks ago - she only left last week.
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#32 |
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It's because Hayley can cope with a more difficult routine whereas the others would find her routines too difficult.
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#33 |
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But in all the VTs we have seen - Daniella comes across as someone who just gets on with what she's been asked to do - no moaning, no complaining, hardly any excuses - just a lot of hard work.
She showed in week 1 that she can skate confidently on her own, and her routine to the Dusty Springfield number was excellent. Her tango routine was the nearest we have come to seeing REAL ice dancing in the whole series (it was almost a compulsory dance routine). Last night's routine with all the lifts meant that the skating she did do was wobbly as a lot of the celebs have problems exiting the lifts smoothly - and Daniella had more than most to deal with. As I said in an earlier post I think she would have given Hayley's routine a pretty good shot, but without Hayleys extensive dance experience, probably wouldn't have done quite so well with it. I'd like to see her be given more challenging stuff to do - because I think she would manage it. |
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#34 |
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I have got the impression over the past couple of weeks that Daniella is struggling with fitness, she doesn't moan and complain but she looks very tired and as if she is in pain!
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#35 |
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Join Date: May 2008
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She must be a joy for Chris and Jayne to choreograph for, they can push her to the limits and give her difficult routines and she gives it everything she's got. I love watching her and Dan!
She clearly works very hard at getting the routines right. She was clearly disapointed with her performance the last week |
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#36 |
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I believe the pro's should do the choreography and not T&D. That way the routines would match the performance level of their celeb. This happens in SCD so you never know what the routine will be like. I think Daniella has had boring choreography the last two weeks and that is reflected in the voting.
Some of the routines this year is just going round and round the ice with a lift, round and round with a lift. :yawn::yawn::yawn: It isn't very inspiring. |
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#37 |
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I believe the pro's should do the choreography and not T&D. That way the routines would match the performance level of their celeb. This happens in SCD so you never know what the routine will be like. I think Daniella has had boring choreography the last two weeks and that is reflected in the voting.
Some of the routines this year is just going round and round the ice with a lift, round and round with a lift. :yawn::yawn::yawn: It isn't very inspiring. |
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#38 |
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Join Date: May 2008
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Quote:
I believe the pro's should do the choreography and not T&D. That way the routines would match the performance level of their celeb. This happens in SCD so you never know what the routine will be like. I think Daniella has had boring choreography the last two weeks and that is reflected in the voting.
Some of the routines this year is just going round and round the ice with a lift, round and round with a lift. :yawn::yawn::yawn: It isn't very inspiring. They probably do do you seriously thing T&D come up with all the routines in a few hour? |
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#39 |
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Quote:
I believe the pro's should do the choreography and not T&D. That way the routines would match the performance level of their celeb. This happens in SCD so you never know what the routine will be like. I think Daniella has had boring choreography the last two weeks and that is reflected in the voting.
Some of the routines this year is just going round and round the ice with a lift, round and round with a lift. :yawn::yawn::yawn: It isn't very inspiring. |
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#40 |
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I don't know so much if it was choreographed by someone else ... she definitely helped them perfect it .. but did they actually say it was choreograhed by someone else?
I thought, though it was definitely more Bollywood, it definitely included shades of Jayne and Chris's 'Song of India' routine in the 1985 World Pro championships. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bf4GDobUE4 |
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#41 |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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I think better performers/skaters get better choreography because they can deal with it. If you go back one year, you could have said that giving Ray Robin's signature jump was unfair, because the public would be more impressed with it than they would be with a normal "hop". However, not many people on DOI could do that jump.
It would be unfair to give better people boring choreography so that the same level could be maintained for all the couples (e.g. last year, Ray would have had to skate to Coleen's level:yawn:, and this year people would have had to skate to Dr Hilary's level:yawn ![]() |
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#42 |
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You must be kidding .. Daniella's routine this week was mostly in-lift .. her required element was terrible and her transitions are awful. Her routines have been quite simple .. she should be executing them with ease by now.
I made it clear that I didn't mean harder skating when I said "better choreography", but your reply's written as if I was talking about how hard the skating was in Daniella's routine. I said Daniella's been getting poor routines, and the reply "says you must be kidding" as if that were ridiculous, then goes on to give a reason why her routine this week was poor ("mostly in-lift"). You don't actually think she's been getting great routines, do you? ![]() Quote:
Hayley did four rotations in her required element .. how can you say that's not difficult skating when Daniella could hardly manage one.
I didn't say the spin wasn't difficult; I was talking of the routine as a whole, and as we've been told one lift does not make a routine.Hayley got a routine that showed off her dancing ability in an impressive way and that masks the limitations in her skating. Unlike Hayley, Daniella has not been getting routines tailored to her strengths. |
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#43 |
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i think the difference between strictly and dancing on ice is that with dancing on ice, there's potential there for things to do dangerously wrong. look at when hayley fell. luckily, dan realised what was going to happen, slowed down and cushioned her head. but that could have been disastrous. and then she did a headbanger. hate to think what could have gone wrong there. i don't watch strictly, but i'm guessing they don't do moves quite like that, simply because they can't glide across the floor the same way. but, for example, mikey would never have been given a routine like hayley did last night, because if things went wrong, anything could have happened. it's much easier to slip over on ice (as we saw repeatedly last week) than it is on normal flooring. and the blades are more dangerous. you get one of those across the hand if you fall... ouch! not quite the same for strictly
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#44 |
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A lot of Hayley's routine didn't involve difficult skating.
In any case, better choreography doesn't have to involve harder skating, and there are celebs who could handle much better routines than they been getting. I think Daniella, for example, has been getting poor routines for weeks now (also ones that don't develop or show her skating very well), and I think that's killed her chances in this series. ![]() She just didn't execute it all that well in places - her spin really let her down. A few weeks back I was concerned that Daniella was capable of more than she was being asked to do. But I'm not sure that was the case after all. She's been struggling the last couple of weeks when she's been pushed. |
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#45 |
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That's the mistake that better means more difficult. Including someone's signature jump isn't better choreography, it's just including a flashy trick.
I think my point generally was, that you can only go so far with the choreography if the person you are choreographing for is not capable of doing more difficult stuff. This does not only apply to Daniella but to everyone else as well. If Coleen had had to skate Hayley's routine yesterday, it would have been a car crash. .Quote:
Hayley got a routine that showed off her dancing ability in an impressive way and that masks the limitations in her skating. Unlike Hayley, Daniella has not been getting routines tailored to her strengths.
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#46 |
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A few weeks back I was concerned that Daniella was capable of more than she was being asked to do. But I'm not sure that was the case after all. She's been struggling the last couple of weeks when she's been pushed.
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#47 |
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Agreed. Hayley's routine was created by a different choreographer and it stood out a mile compared to the other routines - as you say the other more boring skate and lift, skate and lift, skate and lift routines had T&D stamped all over them. No disrespect to T&D whatsoever, they're fantastic, but I'd like to see the pros have more of an input and if not, get some more pro choreographers in.
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#48 |
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I don't know, I quite liked the way Daniella's Grease inspired routine was put together.
She just didn't execute it all that well in places - her spin really let her down. A few weeks back I was concerned that Daniella was capable of more than she was being asked to do. But I'm not sure that was the case after all. She's been struggling the last couple of weeks when she's been pushed. The pushing she's had in recent weeks has been in the wrong direction. For instance, hard to remember sequences of non-skating steps that troubled her knees and did nothing to develop or show her skating ability. The idea that the celebs aren't being given better routines because they can't handle better routines is pretty clearly wrong and seems to be based largely on a confusion between better and more difficult. |
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#49 |
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Thanks Sid you said perfectly what I was trying to say in my post above
.![]() Seems like we're on the same wavelength again! Let's make the most of it
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#50 |
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I think if T & D thought Daniella could do a 'harder' routine, they would give her one. They do it with Kieron. I am very disappointed in Daniella, I thought she was at the bottom of the pile this week. She has hardly improved, she looked like week 2 last night imo.
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