Exactly - so why single out Hayley

Is anyone reading ANYTHING I'm writing today? Or is it all just coming out as 'Hayley is a spoilt smug bitch who is being unfairly favoured and isn't actually any good anyway'.

and please note

THAT IS NOT WHAT I THINK OF HAYLEY.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I THINK OF HAYLEY.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I THINK OF HAYLEY.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I THINK OF HAYLEY.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I THINK OF HAYLEY.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I THINK OF HAYLEY.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I THINK OF HAYLEY.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I THINK OF HAYLEY.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I THINK OF HAYLEY.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I THINK OF HAYLEY.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I THINK OF HAYLEY.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I THINK OF HAYLEY.

etc.

OMG, I can't believe you called Hayley a spoilt smug bitch and said she was unfairly favoured. As for saying she isn't actually any good - words fail me. Are you watching the show AT ALL?!!!

BTW, I know you said some other stuff in your post but once I saw the name Hayley, I just read a few words around that and didn't bother with the rest - I knew it would just be more bashing...

The same as the rest of us

I know what you mean. Posts that are critical of anything even tangentally connected to Hayley are being treated as hate-fuelled attacks on her.

I actually rather like Hayley these days.

Hayley fans really are being particularly dumb in this thread. Almost enough to make me hate her again...

We don't care

Everyone has to act a character every week. Its not a skating race but an art form. Some people, including some actors, are just not very good at it. Its inevitable that people who can dance well and act well will do better if they can also tick the skating box - the alternative is someone winning for just moving pointlessly around in circles.

Daniella had too little story and pointless choregraphy for big chunks - but then Grease has very little story and its not in one song and its raunchier than for 7PM. Gary seemed completely random to me. he could have been doing anything. Danny had a character but no story and looked like a lightweight. All three could have been a lot better though with stronger choregraphy and if they were up to acting it.

What Hayley had was a routine that was, at least, almost as difficult as Suzanne's Music (it had Suzanne's big overhead lift) plus the spin instead of the twisting headbanger. I don't think it matters whether Hayley is acting as a character who has that dance or she's doing a dance in the movie's style - Daniella and the others could have gone generic too. Hayley's theme would have been disasterous if she couldn't pull it off, couldn't act it and couldn't cope with the speed. The advantage she had over Suzanne is that she has a concrete style suggested by her music and can build a story wheras Suzanne's Music has to have an interpretation laid over it - which isn't always so obviously a close fit.

I have to agree that I think Hayley's lack of character was an advantage, especially as I wasn't 100% sure on her connection with Dan last night and that showed in their spin. Also, bringing in an independent choreographer was a bit unfair when the others just get Chris' contribution and tell to accept it. Having said that, it was a great performance although maybe not 6 worthy.

To be fair, an outside choreographer was also brought in for Gary this week and Dr Hilary got extra assistance one of the weeks and Danny went to ballet class.

Outside help is sometimes needed to make a routine more authentic. Perhaps T&D weren't familiar enough with Indian dance to do Hayley's routine justice. It could be argued that she might have been at a disadvantage without external help.

The choregraphy is an issue but its more or less the same issue as the basic one which is that some choregraphy every week is better than others and some is dire? They brought in people to improve other people's acts too - Daniella had Tango dancers one week improving her moves . Not sure of the dance music v character or lyrics argument. Dance music alone must give you some advantage in that you don't have to follow the words or the original story but you could produce just randomness wheras someone with a known and loved song with a strong story also has advantages. Hayley had a strong theme and beat, Clare's best performances had words (lift me up..) that fitted her dynamic ability and Suzanne managed to make something abstract like Music with no story into a great routine.

My understanding of character differs from yours. Character doesn't mean "Hi, I'm Sandy, I'm 17 and from California. I like sunny beaches, and the colour pink, and I wear a frilly skirt, and I want to be a cool."

I would say out of all of them, Hayley's characterisation was actually the stronges.t That's DESPITE not having an actual named person to mimic. She crafted her own character and it was magnificant (subjectively)

Maybe because it was a "solo spin" by any chance ?!?

I'm starting to really laugh at these threads. No matter WHAT Hayley pulls out of the bag, there is always some forum members that stick a gun to her head and want to shoot her down.

I can't be bothered fighting this stupid battle anymore...last night, she was spectacular. You all saw her performance, how can you fault it ?

As for her portraying a character....I would have though as she was an ACTRESS that this would have been better for her.

Whatever....

Actually, I don't think you have a clue how much I know about characterisation (or otherwise) and I resent the slightly patronising tone of this post, assuming that I think a 'character' is someone who has their every nuance scripted down to the letter.

Hayley did not have character features to work with in the same way that Kieron (bumbling) Gary (cool and laid-back) Danniella (cutesy/innocent) Danny (hard man) and even Mikey to some extent (romantic hero) did.

What she had was a dance style that she had to bring to life, and I have not argued anywhere that she did this anything other than magnificently.

But dancing in a way that makes you appreciate the style and the performance, and bringing a character trait to life, are two different things.

Bollywood dance sequences are, as far as I can tell, not part of the characterisation in Bollywood films - though I'll stop there as I don't know much about it.

However, it certainly wasn't part of the characterisation in Slumdog Millionaire - the Jai Ho dance sequence in the film is an afterthought tacked onto the end credits, as a celebration of the film's uplifting end and a nod to Bollywood tradition.

Anyway, the bottom line is that what Hayley had to do was different from what everyone else had to do. That she did what she did very well is not in doubt. I just don't understand why they opted to bring it along those lines - particularly as Hayley is known as an actress and would presumably have had little trouble creating a character in the same way as the others.

Glad you're finding it humorous, because I'm finding the rabid Hayley-lovers' defence of every post that doesn't say 'Hayley is amazing' exceedingly boring, irritating and frustrating.

So at least somebody's enjoying themselves.

I think many have said it before, it wasn't that different from Mikey (who didn't have a specified character to play either, well he wasn't bumbling along in good old Hugh Grant fashion)

Maybe they had just run out of ideas, or they didn't intellectualise the difference, or they thought that it was a characterisation of a Bollywood movie (and chose the wrong song for it). For those of us who haven't watched Slumdog, but have watched other Bollywood films, it was not obvious that the routine was not based on a character in that movie.

By the way, to make things clear, I can see where you are coming from with your point, but I don't know whether it really made a difference in terms of performance (e.g. it could still be argued that having a character is easier than not having one).

It shouldn`t have had that affect - but this post did make me laugh

[quote=Lorelei Lee;38930352]Glad you're finding it humorous, because I'm finding the rabid Hayley-lovers' defence of every post that doesn't say 'Hayley is amazing' exceedingly boring, irritating and frustrating.

/QUOTE]

Just for the record I`m not a rabid Hayley-lover - Kieron is my favourite and has been from the begining.

However I do feel Hayley has come `under fire` from a few people for things that she has no control over. Music choices, schedule of skating, costume, choreography just for example.

As for playing a `character` in last weeks routines - Mikey and Hayley were no different in that respect. In fact I would say Mikey`s was the routine where if you`d turned the volume off you`d have no idea whatsoever which film it came from. Whereas all the others <including Hayley!!> you could recognise the film they were representing.

Interesting first point, although I still can't see that Hayley was displaying any obvious traits that made it clear she was playing a character, not just dancing.

And I didn't really start this thread to suggest it made a difference to the performance quality - I just wanted to see what people thought about what I saw as a clear separation between Hayley and others in that respect.

Of course, it seems that what most people think is that I've found another Hayley-bashing excuse, but hey ho.

Oh but I didn't think it was a Hayley bashing thread. I find these types of discussions far more interesting than the cheesy smile, wink and cocky arrogant discussions (about any of the contestants).

To be fair, before you raised the point, I had not even thought about it (and you were spot on with most of the other contestants). To a certain degree, if I was a big Mikey fan, I would now have a reason to complain that he had the short straw on Saturday.

With regards to Hayley displaying a character, in most of the Bollywood movies, the main character will just get up and randomly perform a dance (very funny). So you are right, her character was based on a dancing character rather than based on an interpretation of a pure film character.

Yes it was .. and you are being totally disingenuous by saying it's not.

Explain why you singled her out then (even though Mikey clearly didn't get a character) and then said 'was it a level playing field?'
That is clearly saying Hayley is being favoured??????

Are you a politician?

I singled her out because in my view she had the least character to work with of any of the skaters.

I have explained in other posts why I feel Mikey had a character to work with, up to a point.

I have explained in other posts why I am not trying to bash Hayley.

Even my original post was more in the spirit of healthy debate than taking one side or the other in a discussion about which I am totally neutral.

But you choose to put an anti-Hayley spin on my words and castigate me for trying to put her down, even though I have explained numerous times I have no desire - or a basis - to do so.

Since you're so interested in taking things totally out of the context in which they were originally meant and twisting them to your own ends in the face of all rational explanation, it might be asked whether you're a politician?

I think Mikey got the short straw. How do you portray romantic comedy in ice dance? - it's not easy when none of the characters in that film had particular distinguishing traits nor was there any particular dance. I'd have had no idea it was supposed to be Notting Hill.

Gary got a bit of the 'twist' but you can't do that for long and it doesn't lend itself to ice dance. I wouldn't have got the Pulp Fiction connection except for the hairstyles.

Kieron got a character of Inspector Clousea in the pink panther and played it in comedy detective style. And very well I thought.

Daniella got iconic costume and two characters to play off each other - it did seem to lack a bit of sparkle

Danny got a boxer - not convinced that lends itself well to ice dance but at least it's a recognisable character with a costume. And suited his body type!

Hayley was given a dance style rather than a character - you could say it maybe represented Bollywood in general but it didn't represent Slumdog Millionaire to me. It also gave her very recognisable 'Bollywood costume' which she looked great in and a dance style, the stylised movements of which were easy (for her) to translate to a dance on ice especialy with the help of a specialist choreographer who came to the ice rink to teach them.

So I don't think it was a level playing field but that's never been what DOI is about and to some extent they probably thought they were playing to everybody's strengths.

Hayley's strength in the dance/performance side enabled her to run with it a lot more than most of them.

And I still preferrred Kieron!

I'm sorry...I must be watching a different show. By any chance are you watching "Playing a Charater On Ice"

So what if she didn't have a character to work with....she's did all that with the Endless Love routine....

I find this thread quite pointless, actually.

Then why post on it? I find such activity quite pointless, actually.