Because I'm trying to back Hayley up...

How awful am I ?!

From my point of view, today, after a million posts about how unfair I'm being to Hayley despite every effort to explain my fair and neutral position?

Don't ask.

No - Jai Ho.

Hahahahah I thought the exact same thing when I read that

At the end of the day, I think some of us are forgetting (myself included sometimes) that this is just an entertainment show, to entertain viewers. Hayley is doing incredibly well...and so are the others. I don't care who everyone's favorites are....and I don't expect people to care who my favorite is...but when someone is criticizing her, I would like to defend if I believe the person criticizing is going OTT.

But at the end of the day...it's just a show.

Everyone now left is an actor so its hardly an advantage being one. Mikey wasn't and it showed - on ability he should have gone the week before leaving only the actors last Sunday.

Not sure everyone else didn't have the potential to do the same thing as Hayley either given that none of their songs do more than suggest the character. The problem is that some music leads nowhere because the story is spread over a series of songs and just one has too little story, some leads to a character that becomes boring when the music repeats itself, some leads to a character that doesn't inspire dancing and some is just weaker music or less voter friendly than others. You could easily think of better films with more useable songs. Its luck who gets what works best and its then chicken and egg whether the best performer can perform best because they have the best music or they alone can perform it because they are the best performer.

I think the O/P makes a good and interesting point. One that I myself hadn't noticed.

I have just watched the routine back and while it is good, I noticed that apart from when she is standing doing the dance moves, the spin on the spot that started on the spot not at the end of a move, or jumping up and down once, she is either in hold or being lifted. I hadn't noticed that. Daniella gets bashed for that (she was not being dragged anywhere) and yet Hayley never skating solo during the routine is glossed over.

Both Danny and Keiron did large sections of their routines solo too.

Daniella spent the whole of last weeks routine in hold paart from the spin, which she messed up, probably because her partner wasn't their to hold her, and doing lifts, how many lifts were there, 5 or 6?

Oh I do

Hayley wasn't the only contestant to receive external help.

Gary had an outside choreographer work with him as well. As did Danielle when she performed her Tango and Dr Hilary a couple of weeks ago.

It happens all the time.

Why is this always seen as a strength rather than an indication that they are not able to lead a partner?

I just notice that the women are always criticised for skating in hold but the men are never criticised for skating out of hold.

This is a good question? It would be easier for the men out of hold I would imagine.

The reason that Daniella gets bashed for this, is because she NEVER does any solo skating...ever!!! Hayley last week managed a routine almost full of solo skating, and Robin commented that the skating matched the performance.

I think it would be silly to disagree with someone who is an olympic champion.

Disagree with an Olympic Champion, only on this forum gazb2.

Actually he said that the skating was finally starting to match the performance and that she was getting there.

So you agree with Robin about Keiron then.

The men have to do both - the solo skating and appearing to lead the partner in the routine (not just when in hold).

Because they have a pro partner it can still be easier for them to do certain moves in hold as the pro can help them (although it shouldn't look like it) and it's still very difficult. It's not easier for them to skate out of hold than for the ladies to skate out of hold, because leading in hold is more difficult than following in hold. Not sure that's clear........

Let me try it this way. It's equally difficult for the men and the ladies to skate out of hold. Given they have pro partners - it's harder for the men than for the ladies when skating in hold as the men have to appear to be leading.

Kieron got criticised early on as he was always looking to Brianne almost to see what to do next. It made him look very unconfident.

He seems to have cracked that now though and owns the routines.

The guys also have to be steady and confident enough to do the lifts. Gary appears best at this as he can do the lift and rotate on the ice at same time which makes it more difficult.

Thanks for this icedragon.

If she can't be "under fire" for any of those things, then she shouldn't get any credit for them either. Yet take away the music and choreography from the Jai Ho routine and what's left won't get her anywhere near 6.0s.

But it's not true that Daniella never does any solo skating, nor is it true that Hayley's routine last week was almost full of it.

In any case, Hayley isn't competing only against Daniella.

If that referred to the level playing field I'm not sure what show you are watching.

They start from wildly different levels of ability in both skating and dancing, they do completely different routines with completely different elements. The boys who have to lift, skate against the girls who have to be lifted and we are only marking one partner. The type and scope of outside assistance is wildly different (there was another thread on this - can't remember which one now) and varies from week to week. There are no rules and no marking scheme and no consistency in marking. Level it is not - but it's fun! And gives much more to talk about that way

Does she get credit for the choice of music, choreography etc., or is it credit for the way she performs to the choice she has been given ?

Do you seriously think that the choreography and music make no difference to the marks?

Do you think Hayley would have had 6.0 from every judge that week no matter what music or choreography she'd been given?

It should be obvious that she wouldn't.

Besides, the impressiveness of that routine relied heavily on it letting her do lots of dancing on toe-picks. Choreography that hadn't let her do that would have been much less impressive.

So then why are you criticizing it ??

Oh, silly question...you were criticizing it before you even watched it....stupid me !

It is not likely the music will repeat itself on DOI. The performances are only a few minutes

I don't like pick dancing in DOI. Never have. I do like skating. I don't like routines that avoid skating, regardless of whether it's done by lifts or by picks.

I have said some positive things, btw, for instance that it was very good as a performance. But very good is still a long way from "incredible", straight 6.0s, standing ovation from the judges, etc, etc.

Besides, I've never been on the performance / entertainment side of the disputes about what DOI and SCD are about.


No, I was criticising the marking and the OTT gushing over it. Which is not at all the same as criticising the choreography or the routine.

It's frustrating to me tha tyou can't see that objecting to the marking before you've seen it is wrong. Factually, you were objecting to the marking because it was Hayley, not because of anything to do with the routine.

Example: There is nothing whatsoever to suggest that Danny is capable of getting 30, and lots to suggest that he isn't capable. He's also my least favourite. If he were to get a 30, my reaction would be "Holy crap! I have to see this. What a massive improvement." before deciding that it was overmarked, rather than to publically declare "He's sickeningly overmarked... I haven't seen it though".