You must be watching a different show. Hayley did an almost flawless performance. The arms and legs are required for the performance or had you not noticed.
She has done as much skatting as the rest of them.

She clearly works hard at her perfomances and certainly does not thing winning it is in the bag.

Daniella had a terrible routine this week. It was little more than some faffing about plus lifts. The routines they're giving her recently are killing her chances and they have so little skating that people have forgottent the skating she used to do and are thinking she can't skate.

Of course not, because people don't like the sort of attitude, do they???

It doesn't cost anything to be pleasant about the way we talk people. Even when we have something negative to say, it can be said pleasantly and constructively. Most of the negative posts on here are tinged with bitterness.

Her VTs always make it look like she struggles.

But they all do Veri Kieron even a thick lip, so he was struggling.

Maybe Daniella used to skate more/better because the routines used to be easier?

I've never considered Daniella elegant; sometimes her skating was smooth, but for me, her transitions were always awkward and clumsy.

now now

play nice

That sort of point helps me, if anything.

If all the VTs are questionable, then we can cross off all the VT "evidence"; and if we're crossing them all off, we're certainly crossing off the one that supposedly showed Hayley was struggling in week 1.

The skating in her routines wasn't easier before, so unless she has some injury we haven't been told about, there's skating she could do instead of having so many lifts.

But it was a poor routine no matter who it was given to. It's clear by now, surely, that such lift, lift, lift routines are bad news.

In my opinion, Daniella is now the worst skater and performer left in the competition. Her routines are incredibly boring, and she spends 10 times more time in the air and being lifted than actual skating. I think she was very over-rated the night she did that pretty good routine, but since she can't really skate/perform, people are expecting amazing things from her, that she obviously can't deliver. Her skating skills are minimal, and I would certainly bet on her leaving next Sunday...

It sounds like you decided any criticism would be invalid before even seeing what was said. Yet there can be, and has been, valid and legitimate criticism of that routine. A lot of it was dancing on toe-picks or in contact with her partner; there was very little solo skating and, apart from the spin, nothing very impressive as skating.



Why can't people criticise Hayley without having such questionable motives stuck on them? People don't feel a "need to put down people that are doing well". If there were any such need, it would have come out big time in comments on the Olympics, but it didn't.


That's not true. Legitimate criticism of Hayley or any anything somehow connected to her (such as her routines or judges comments about her) has been attacked from week 1 on, and one of the popular forms of attack is claiming that it's due to irrational dislike, or even hatred, for her.


It's reached the point where we can't even disagree with the judges about her without getting sarcastic or dismissive replies that our views are worthless because we're not experts or Olympic skaters -- something I don't recall seeing in any other show.

I haven't quite reached the "anyone but Hayley" point, but I can't deny I'd feel a certain satisfaction if someone else took the prize.

I never thought that any criticism would be 'invalid' however I did think that maybe she wouldn't top the 'least favorite' poll, and receive yet twenty times more criticism than she really deserves.

Ok, fair enough, you don't think she did enough solo skating...however in my opinion I thought what she did worked incredibly well with her given routine, and looking at her in a whole package, she skated nearly her entire routine last week solo, prompting Robin to say that the skating now matched the performance. Sure, the skating might not have been that impressive...good thing the show is titled 'DANCING on Ice" then, isn't it ?

As so many say when the routines of certain other skaters are criticised, blame the choreographers. They're the ones giving her the incredibly boring routines.

If you think I especially care about Daniella, though, you're wrong, and I won't be drawn off-topic into defending her.

Besides, Hayley isn't competing only against Daniella. The guys are in it too.

BTW, the show may be called "dancing on ice", but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter how it's put on the ice. Let someone go out with spiked shoes instead of skates and try defending it that way.

I am trying very hard to play nice against great provocation

All the routines have become more difficult and the addition of more advanced elements means there is less space for basic skating.

I'm glad you don't care about Daniella....you seem to have the impression that I am some horrible beast that wants to criticize everyone and everything.

Blame the choreographers if you wish...however I think they are trying their best with what they have to work with.

However, it's all just an opinion.

Poor routine or not, Daniella made a mess of it. She could have done much better, she was OK when she was being lifted, the problems were when he was actually on the ice.

"Valid" seems to have a funny meaning in these forums, so maybe "invalid" does too. But you clearly decided before seeing what people would say that "Hayley has given something that can't be criticized". The "can't" has to have some kind of force, even if "invalid" isn't quite the right term for it.


The skating didn't match the performance this week. Not even close.

What was her song last week? (No one labels DOI videos properly on youtube any more. ) If it was "don't stop believing", then the routine was not, almost all solo skating. (I'm not going to count any time when she's in contact with her partner as "solo".)

I did like that routine, though, and thought it had enough skating.

Yes, it was 'Don't Stop Believing' and you might want to tell Robin (a past olympic champion) this, as he seemed to think it was...

I don't agree at all. I haven't checked every single routine, but most of the recent ones spend time on things that could have been skating instead.

(I'm going to ignore the "basic", since it wasn't part of what I said in the message you're answering.)

If he thought it was almost all solo skating, then he was wrong, and anyone who looks at a video can see that for themselves.

But, as I observed above, it's reached the point where we can't even disagree with the judges about her without getting a dismissive implication that our views are worthless because we're not experts or Olympic skaters -- something I don't recall seeing in any other show.

You have pretty much exactly what I said. By 'basic' I mean skating that does not contain jumps, spins, lifts etc

I didn't say that either.

There was no need to have so many lifts in Daniella's routine, for example, and quite a few routines do some faffing about at the start that might qualify as "dancing" but is done without skating. There is clearly room for more skating.

I'm rarely impressed with the faffing with the possible exception of Danny this week

Also, any argument that the judges know better is negated by their random scoring.

What you said was "most of the recent ones spend time on things that could have been skating instead."

Where I said "the addition of more advanced elements means there is less space for basic skating."

I can't actually see the difference between those two comments.

I don't have an axe to grind here on behalf of either Daniella or Hayley. I was simply pointing out that more (and more difficult) content is put into the routines each week therefore there is less space for the skating that people such as Daniella appeared to find easy at the start of the series.

Also, if the celebrity is not up to more difficult skating then there has to be other elements such as lifts otherwise we would seeing exactly the same content in different costumes each week. That gets dull and would not sustain an audience for a TV show. I guess this does mean that some people don't get the chance to be as good as they could be but that's a consequence of the fact that this is an entertainment format, not serious skate training.