From someone who has defended her, but who isn't a rabid fan (if anything I'm coming close to having Kieron as my favourite), there has not been hate against Hayley, but a lot of unnecessary criticism. There has also been overzealous defence. However, vicious circle and cause and effect come to mind.

I don't have faith in your view of 'irrational hate', as I'd put you under that umbrella for deciding that Hayley was "sickeningly overmarked", despite NOT SEEING THE PERFORMANCE, based on almost 90% of posters (including those who don't like her) saying that it was brilliant. It's irrational hate like that that really winds up the fans, and that's the reason they are the way they are now.

Thank you for saying what I wanted too. I had hardly posted this year until I started reading all the petty criticisms of Hayley.

Greg used to play ice hockey, so he is more than able to skate his way around a rink.

He is also on record as saying the reason he took up tennis was that he was so bad at ice hockey

Yes Greg could skate (ie he could stay upright and go forwards and backwards and even jump) - but he couldn't perform to save his life!

So let me get this right.

You think that anyone but the best skater should win?
It's not fair because she is too good.

I'm not sure I follow your logic but I suppose everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Keep taking the tablets :P

Chicken. Egg.

Point is people can stop being snipey childish brats, on both sides, if these chose to. Time for grown ups to make a decision.

She is clearly not the best skater still in DOI.

Many comments praising Hayley make it sound like she did something absolutely incredible, and many comments say how great her performance was. If they just mean it was good for DOI, perhaps they should say so. But in any case, it's still legitimate to point out that it's not all that special compared to things outside DOI.

We can compare anything we want. There's nothing that says we can't compare DOI performances to things outside DOI.

Hayley isn't the best skater.

He was nonetheless very limited as a skater, and that was pretty obvious in DOI. It wasn't just a lack of dance ability.

We haven't seen enough actual skating from her to judge.

Gary is the best skater.

I don't hate Halyey, and I've said I don't. By continuing to say that was irrational hate, you're saying I lied.

I don't have to see the performance to recognise a classic case of over-praise when I see its manifestations, especially since I had a pretty good idea of what Hayley was actually capable of by now.

I think you will be hard pressed to find more than a tiny number of posts that can really be considered irrational hate. I haven't seen any.


Petty criticism is very different from irrational hate and could have simply been ignored.

But as with the false accusations of hate, there were numerous attempts to portray legitimate and reasonable criticism as petty.

There are a few posters posting on every anti-thread about Hayley, it must be very strong irrational dislike at the least. To constantly 'slag' someone off is just not natural imo.
By the way, how many false accusations of hate have their been, one maybe.

Why must everything that differs from your opinion be irrational? Serious question.

I presume you are talking to me. It's not irrational because it differs from my opinion, it's irrational to keep criticising someone for everything they do or don't do and repeating it over and over again.

Yeah I remember people using Greg as an example of how Chris Fountain's ice hockey experience wasn't an advantage to him. I think their levels of experience were different though (ie, Chris was semi-professional). Greg really was hopeless performance-wise, I remember Kristina getting so annoyed with his lack of interest in actually skating to the music. xD

Forums have a tendency to bring out such un-natural behaviour, and there are various vicious cycles that make things worse once they get going, for instance as people who like Hayley in DOI and those who don't wind each other up.

I added the "in DOI" to the like / dislike, because it's entireloy possible (and actually pretty common) to dislike the way someone is, or appears to be, in a show, or the role they seem to have in a show, without disliking them personally. Even "dislike" is questionable in many cases. For example, someone may find DOI-Hayley irritating without disliking her.

Besides, this is a fairly dull series, and there isn't all that much else to talk about. Today is the 12th, and there are still threads on page 1 of the DOI forum that haven't had any comments since the 10th.


Quite a few. Not that I've kept a list or anything.

But most of the claims that there's been hate don't mention any specifics, so it's hard to know exactly what they're supposed to be about. When they do get at all specific, it's seldom very convincing, and some seem to think that even saying Hayley is smug is due to hate.

Oh my GOSH !!

Guys seriously, if you start from the beginning of this thread and work your way up, you should notice that this has been one massive circle...that's came around a good 3 or 4 times.

I'm obviously known to be a Hayley fan(atic) but I'm actually now getting BORED of defending all these criticisms that KEEP coming up EVERY single thread. It's not because I'm not a 'strong' Hayley fan that I can no longer defend her...it's just that it's one MASSIVE De Ja Vu. I think i've made my point clear that I think Hayley is good...but if everyone is just going to keep going back and forth - then it gets UNBEARABLY boring...and I just can't keep doing it.

Let's just leave it alone now, YES ??

Hayley will win (IMO)

she is not always the best skater (IMO)

Its the overpraising and unacceptance of any criticisim by fans that gets up peoples noses (IMO)

accept that some people may not like her style of performing on DOI

Lets face it, how many of Hayley fans accept that Ray was just as good last year

BTW I didnt like Ray much last year either but I knew he would win

I think the forum could get a little boring without it

or should it just be a forum full of appreciation threads with a smattering of 'live show' and threads that havent been posted on for ages

As a Hayley fan, Ray was phenomenal last year, I expected him to win and he did. I expect Hayley to win too, but I am not as confident.

Yes, there is a very noticeable tendency to say X, Y or Z can't possibly give anyone an advantage because some random other person had X, Y or Z yet in some sense didn't do well.

Imagine Greg without his skating background.

Another formerly flourishing meme is the one that says everyone has (different) advantages, as if they must all cancel out.

Unfortunately, the pick-dancing technique, which I think first appeared in DOI in a big way with Ray, can give a good dancer even more of an advantage because of the way it lets off-ice dance moves be brought onto the ice.

However, lifts no longer work very well as a way to impress without skating across the ice, and it's possible pick-dancing will go the same way once it becomes more familiar.

That's fine. Anyone who is bored with it doesn't have to join in. Meanwhile, those who are not yet bored with it can continue until they get as bored as you are now.

People will argue for ever ones personalities get involved

If you look at it objectively and just from the skating & performance aspect Hayley is leading by a long way.
Daniella who was in the lead initially has dropped away

Just curious, but if her performances are so superior than everybody else's, why do you think it's Kieron who is making the biggest gains in popularity on here this week, rather than her?

I think her Jai Ho routine was technically accomplished, but sort of soulless - it's not the sort of thing I'd make the effort to watch again. But then clearly I'm not objective.