I agree I think its just so it looks like something is being done rather than putting an actually effective course of action in place. More political spin if you ask me.

Anyway I don't like the way its about controlling dangerous dogs. The onus should be on protecting dogs from dangerous and stupid owners. There are few truly bad dogs out there. Dogs should be recognised as dogs with the appropriate care, understanding and treatment they need. Yes they can be loving family members but not treated like children, by the same token they should not be treated as weapons either.

I completely agree with your post, sue.
The people who buy dogs have the power to help stop irresponsible dog breeding, laws can never do that because there will always be people who breed dogs for their own profit regardless of any laws in place, and there will also always be people who will buy those dogs. If dog owners were to do some research before buying a dog and ensure they buy ethically it would go a long way to sorting out the problem. Molliepops you specifically raised the point about your neighbour who bred from her dog - what law could ever have prevented that? People have to take responsibility for their own actions.

I can see the logic in it ! But it isn't working as people are able to just buy a dog today - without any checks at all. Can we stop potential owners ? No ! So it has to be got at from the other side - from the breeders. If it really is impossible to organise and police then this and many other conversations are just not worth having as it will never change.

So WHAT are we supposed to do? you keep saying it should come from the breeders - but with no suggestions of what breeders can do, other than suggesting even more unenforcable legilsation.

The puppy buying public need educating - there is strength in numbers and the puppy buying public outnumber the breeders by a long stretch.

If puppy buyers are not prepared to do their research - are willing to buy flea and worm infested puppies from stinking hell holes - with due respect - they need their heads tested.

No matter how many times we dish the advice out, people STILL go and see litters from unhealth tested parents and fall in love - because again, we live in a society where "it will never happen to me", and it is only when something does happen to them or someone they know that they alter their behaviour.

WHY shouldn't the puppy buying public be educated?

It seems people with the highest levels of intelligence can go almost daft the minute they see a puppy

If a puppy buyer isn't happy with any element of the breeders set up - they should walk away - but more often than not, they won't.

When those who eventually go get past me to view a litter - they get to meet the older dogs before they get sight of the pups - because this way you get a measure of just how much of a doggie person they are.

I am all in favour of responsible breeding - I thought that would be obvious - but when you run websites showing what can happen, spend hours telling people what can happen - and they still choose to ignore you - please tell me what you are supposed to do.

You keep throwing it back to the breeders, but you've not come up with one suggestion as to what steps we can actually take - and seem to think that the puppy buying public have absolutely no responsibility in all this

If the government feels they have money to spend - they should put it into an education campaign that clearly shows puppy farm setups - and advises people where to get the information - ALL of which is readily and easily available online.

But we are not talking about responsible owners or breeders I am suggesting legislation to control breeding so that not just anyone can breed a litter - as much as I love dogs there are far too many around and in rescue too. We have to stop breeding so many and yes stop irresponsible owners getting their hands on them.
You are right even intelligent people go gaga when they see a pup so expecting them to think twice is not going to work. However I am assuming responsible breeders think more than twice before embarking on a litter and we need to get all breeders to be thinking along the same lines.

But HOW would you enforce it? by buying a licence maybe? personally, unless such a licence was a reasonable price, I would simply have to give up breeding, and I know a lot of others would have to as well.

There may be too many dogs in rescue - but a lot of these are

a) dumped because they have health problems for which the owner has no insurance
b) dog that have grown bigger than anticipated (usually mongrels)
c) ex breeding bitches and their offspring

The fact remains that the demand for puppies cannot be met by the hobby, responsible working and show kennels and (whether you approve of them or not) responsible commercial breeders.

If you loose the majority of the hobby breeders from this mix - who will plug the gap?

Almost invariably, it will the puppy farmers who already flout existing legislation - so are unlikely to be worried by any more - and the pet owner who claims ignorance after their 'baby girl' was caught in the park by "Mr Anon" down the road because they didn't understand that, although the bitch had stopped bleeding, she was actually at her most fertile rather than no longer in season.

Some people wanting a puppy, will go to any lengths to get one - even I understand, in some instances - buying out of the back of a van in laybys or at a service station

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I am all for something that works - but more badly thought out legislation undoubtedly won't - and could actually result in the situation becoming worse rather than better

Which all comes back to educating the puppy buying public - and making them understand that puppies simply cannot be produced to order.

The RSPCA needs to be bought to task over this ...when people report puppy farms/bad breeders and should act immediately and have the power to close these places down, confiscate the dogs/puppies if they don't meet minimum requirements and prosecute the owners...(maybe even give the reporter a choice to take one of the pups as a rescue if it proves healthy..this might prevent people buying them because they worry what would happen to the pup if they left it.)

I also think they should spot checks, they only need to scour the pet forums and local papers, to see where dogs are being sold, and rather like the mystery shoppers in supermarkets, pose as customers to check out what dogs are being sold and where they are selling them

It would hoepfully put a lot of the bad breeders out of buisness, and make a potentially good owner, whose heartstrings are tugged feel a lot more confident that reporting these people isn't going to lead to a worse life for the pup

I'm not disagreeing with the above - unfortunately, the RSPCA seem to be of the view if it is nothing to do with them - from what I've seen, in the main, they would pick easy targets to prosecute rather than setting up schemes to educate owners who think it is kind to feed their dog the same volumes as a human etc


While I am not sure a reporters lifestyle would suit a pup, I can see where you are coming from.

This is part of the problem - once people see these pups, they (understandably) fear for them, and would rather buy them than let them remain where they are

Unfortunately, it is this very behaviour which enables puppy farmers to blithely keep on churning out puppies

Incidentally, they have rather strict legislation on breeders in France - including having to pass a test at around 18 months to ensure the dog meets the breed standard and is healthy before they are permitted full registration and therefore allowed to breed - but they still have puppy farmers

So we carry on as we are ? And wait for a government minister who has no experience of any of the problems to make laws that prohibit ownership etc. We have more and more places we are not allowed to walk our dogs as councils make arbitrary decisions to make beaches and parks etc dog free. I can see a day when owning a dog will be much like being a smoker at the moment and I don't like what I am seeing.

I believe the RSPCA need a really big shake up, at the moment, in my experience, unless there is a camera crew standing by, they seem next to useless. These kind of preventive measures could save them a lot of time/money in the long run, plus a lot of heartache for the people, who (sometimes, not always) with the best of intentions, buy these poor pups and perpetuate the bad breeders.

I don't think new legislation or penalising good breeders such as yourself is the answer..all thats needed is proper implementation of the laws we already have and for the society for the prevention of cruelty to animals to actually get out there and start preventing it..

Do any of us - but unless you can suggest something constructive you are simply going around in circles - you've said it should be legilsation - then it should be the breeders - but not actually made any suggestions as to what can be done.

I am not disagreeing with you that something needs doing - I am just struggling to know what.

I am not saying things shouldn't change - of course they should - but I have a genuine concerns that, as usual, any new laws will penalise those already doing things properly - IF That becomes the case - then there will be only predominantly puppy farmers left to meet the demand.

If you can put constructive suggestions forward as to how things can change and be managed - then maybe people will stand up and listen.

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Rosemary - I think you have hit the nail bang on TBH - ever thought of a career in politics?

No I'd prefer to do a job doing something constructive

Well as a starting point ban puppy farms - I think they are probably easy enough to find so would be easy to target.

Then require all dogs to be registered when they are born - chip or tattoo pups. Make it law and make penalties enough to stop people in their tracks.
Have that chip or tattoo info follow the dog through out it's life and make owners register at a vet where they have to annually bring the dog in for an examination - that could catch all sorts of problems !

Make it law that vets have to report fighting injuries if they happen in suspicious circumstances - we have to put a stop to dog fighting for fun/profit.