It's nice to chew the cud and all that, but do you really think the producers give a damn about the professionals? All the signs are that the producers treat the professional dancers as commodities, and the matching is done according to how far their faces match and who is left. It helped to rip the heart out of the series when they gave Lilia some old duffers and she was out week one/week five. Darren's luck is worse. It's the celebrities that are important to the producers.
If there is any professional that sways them in the least, it will be Ola with her sex appeal.

If they don't, they should. It's ridiculous to give strong and weak celebs out indiscriminately, when there are some pros who are just going to screw up the chances of the strong celebs and others who will make the weak celebs feel humiliated.

I've heard that the producers are desperate to keep Lilia on... but they're going the right way about getting the Bennetts to quit the show, given the lack of showing they've been given over the last few years. They're due a chance this year.

Fair enough, I just thought that seeing as he's doing the leading it would be slightly easier for him to pull the level up a bit than it would be for Lilia with a laboured partner...shows how much I know!


As much as I think it's totally wrong for them to do it, I think you're completely right. They don't have a clue how to allocate the celebrities to the dancers, and that's what will lose them Darren and Lilia sooner or later - I wouldn't blame them in the slightest if they lost patience with the producers. I'm sure Ola is resigned to getting a dud this year as she inevitably will (she's never had someone who looks a winner on paper, but she'll not get one this year because she's defending champion), but Lilia has every right to expect someone good. I wouldn't blame Flavia for losing patience if she doesn't get a good partner soon either, but from what I know she and Vincent are happy to keep doing Strictly if they're asked

I may be wrong on this but I never got the impression he was actually listening to Flavia either, which won't have helped!I thought that his 'deluded' attitude may have been a joke but apparently Vincent confirmed at a workshop when asked that Craig really did believe he was one of the best dancers. I think he must be tough to teach, possibly at anything, despite being a perfectly lovely guy, as he possibly thinks he knows better. If Flavia's teaching was incorrect, she'd have been found out long before Craig.

For me I would like to see Lilia, Darren, Flavia and Kristina get good partners. All for me have shown brilliance with their past partners (Kristina has never had a good'un but the sense of humour she showed in her choreography for John Sargeant was brilliant) and the last two years have not had a chance to show what they can really do. I think all just need someone who has a sense of rhythm and can hear the beat.

I think all the pros will be back this year, I got the impression with the Professional tour that a lot will have been signed for the next series too but that is just my thoughts.

And I agree...BENNET DOMINATION and FLAV DOMINATION is what I would like.

Would this be the wrong thread to moan about Don Warrington being sent home a week after his wonderful tango with Lilia? Wow....I don't let these things go.

Don looked like the Minotaur with his nostrils flaring!
...

Ha, maybe you're right...
When I think of Craig dancing, I picture someone where the movement of the limbs does not match up right with the trunk, like a teddy bear dancing...

I know his nostrils look ridiculous but it was brilliant!

That is a perfect description of Craig's dancing. Bless him.

What really needs to happen is the producers need to get a decent amount of celebs that can dance (after being taught obviously, i don't mean beforehand ) as every year there are too many duds, especially within the male section. They don't all need to be good, as i know they like getting the duds in but way too many are duds now.
This is obviously easier said then done though.

That's true, he said that when I saw them dance a few weeks ago And indeed, if Flavia teaches incorrectly she'd have been told so long ago, and she and Matt would never have made the final...she is a fabulous teacher, she just got a stubborn pupil who couldn't see past his own view of himself

Just noticed the criticism was that Flavia can't teach rise and fall... if only she was able to, Matt would have got a much higher mark for his Waltz

The only blame I could put on Flavia is that she is too nice. I think if Craig had someone really tough, it might have been possible to teach him. Flavia always seems a bit genteel.

She is a great dancer and as we saw with Matt, a very innovative and good choreographer.

I'm another Lilia fan, and would like to see her get a celeb who could do latin.

James & Ola are deffinately back.

Source please, we need some kind of proof to know for sure they're confirmed, otherwise it doesn't seem real, as it's a bit early for pros to be confirmed

I'm a fan of theirs and glad they'll be back, but they do generally say they'll do it if asked, so that would mean the producers have already started recruiting pros again, which I thought usually didn't happen until about June... I would've thought they're all far too busy with the pro tour anyway!

Indeed

I actually think that there should be a large refresh in the pro lineup. I am not particulary fussed who should stay or go (apart from Anton who shold be kicked out for his big mouth!) but overall the show needs new blood. None of the dancers should think that their place is safe.

One criteria I would add is that the pro dancer should be very compitent in both ballroom and latin.

Which most of them are, at least to the extent that they need to be in order to do the show. Natalie's a ballroom specialist but her Latin is good, and Erin's Latin choreography isn't bad at all. James, Ola, Ian, Darren, Lilia, Katya, Matt etc are all more than passable at Ballroom despite being Latin specialists (and indeed a lot of them have improved markedly over the series they've done) and Vincent and Flavia have always been brilliant at both.

Most of the current Strictly pros have danced both ballroom and Latin at some point in their lives...

Ola's ballroom is not that great, nor is Erin's latin. Neither of them as bad as Anton's latin though!

Matt and Ian both dance lovely ballroom. Darren and Lilia are both good as well, and all four choreograph strong ballroom routines for their celebs. Vincent and Flavia are great at both obviously- pity we can't have more ten dancers. Maybe a coincidence, but of those six- three have won a series, four have come second, two have come third, three have come fourth. I think that's right anyway:
Won- Darren, Lilia, Matt
Second- Flavia, Vincent, Lilia, Ian
Third- Darren, Ian,
Fourth- Lilia, Vincent, Darren

On the counter side, Erin has come fourth twice, third and second, pretty good results over seven series. So it's not clear cut to say being strong on both disciplines automatically gives good results. But I think a lot would argue that her results would have been better still with good latin routines.

I thought they don't get their contracts until June/July.

I don't think it would have made much difference to be honest. Martin did well given his talent levels - I don't think stronger Latin would have made much difference. Julian's Latin was an active positive - Erin choreographed comedy routines that flattered his skills and also showed progression. Colin's Latin was great and he was defeated more by Darren's strengths than by his weaknesses. Peter wasn't built for Latin, and neither was Willie (he also never danced it). Ricky Groves was another Julian - comedy routines designed to show personality, which worked for him, because he arguably got further than he should.

Austin's the only one where I think stronger Latin might have helped, and only in the one instance where outscoring Lisa in the quarters might have kept him in. Even that I put down more to a failing of Erin's ballroom, not latin, in producing a lacklustre A. Smooth when she should have nailed it.

It's also worth mentioning that she's never been eliminated on a Latin dance alone. Four of her eliminations have been at two-dance/the final, and the other three were all on ballroom routines. Likewise for all the talk of Anton's Latin he's only been eliminated on a Latin alone once.

I'm not saying Erin's a great latin dancer. I'm just saying she doesn't need to be for the routines she does to work for her celebs. Ola is a great Latin dancer and I'd say the same for her.

I think Colin had the potential to produce some WOW latin routines but didn't, apart from the Rumba. Watching him in the group Salsa showed he had a lot of natural ability that wasn't exploited in the routines he did. Although Len's 'you danced like a MAN' routine gets on everyone's nerves, I did read a critique from a well-know professional dancer who said that the latin routines Colin was given and the way he was taught to dance them were too effeminate, and not doing any favours to the way latin was perceived. Then you get the opposite with Austin's non-Paso, which was danced 'like a MAN' but without much Paso content. I don't think Austin had the same potential in latin as Colin, but I think clever choreography could have fooled the audience and maybe even the judges when combined with his strong performance in ballroom. I don't think Erin pitches her latin routines well with talented celebs, and I don't think she is capable of dancing them herself in a way that flatters the celebs.

Julian and Martin are neither here nor there as they didn't have any potential in latin, and I don't believe any of the other pros would have done much different.

What I do think is that Erin will never win, and that both Colin and Austin could have won with different partners. partnered with Erin.

Ola's ballroom has definitely improved though, and in my opinion she outdanced Aliona by far in the pro quickstep on tour, and I preferred her to Lilia in it too, but I know that is more subjective. Her ballroom dancing is better than Erin's Latin quite frequently, especially in the pro routines, and I'd say even in choreography terms too - Ola did some good ballroom routines this year (and Chris was often stronger at ballroom than Latin) while Erin's Latin was passable but not great...

And Ola's lack of ballroom expertise didn't harm her result this year! Which is why I don't agree that Erin would have won by now had she been good at Latin - for the majority of the voting public, the expertise of the pro at a particular dance is almost irrelevant - it's choreography that matters, which is why Ola won this year - her choreography might not have been technically the best out of the all the pros, or the hardest, but it clearly worked.

I don't know- if you were to name one dance that won the show for Chris (assuming any dance did, rather than personlity), which one would you pick? Did Ola choreograph it? No.

It's not that I think the public consciously thought 'I don't think I'll vote for Colin, Erin isn't as good a dancer as Lilia'. I just think they often came across as a bit bland, which made people prefer Darren. Maybe if the routines had been more exciting, that wouldn't have happened (that is a maybe though, as Darren was obviously extremely popular).

If effeminacy in Latin were a bar to success on this show, then Gethin's jive wouldn't be the highest scoring by any man, Tom and Chris wouldn't have won given their propensity for mincing and wiggling and dancing to such masculine sexual performers as ABBA and Bonnie Tyler, and Austin would have been out on his arse far earlier given that his Latin routines seemed at times to be being danced to a soundtrack of the best of the Village People. Effeminate male Latin on Strictly is pretty much a given, as it's obvious that 90% of the time strong displays of sexuality turn the audience off (see the universal fail of the samba and the generally poor showing public vote wise of more passionate sexual dances such the tango and rumba). I don't really think Colin's effeminacy (which I never really saw) should be more of an issue than anybody else's except in the eyes of people like Len and a few professionals/dance teacher who were on a real "dancing's not just for poofs" course in that year.


Given that Austin's Paso is the highest scoring ever with the judges, and probably the most popular ever with the public, I'd argue that clever choreography in that case possibly DID fool the judges and the public. I agree to an extent that Austin could have won with someone else (Nobody was beating Darren that year) but I don't think his Latin was the problem.

All of those seem like very fair outcomes to me! I guess I go for the 'dance like a MAN' thing more than I knew!

I'm not sure whether I agree or not on the effeminacy thing, my point was just that a respected latin professional had basically criticised Erin's handling of Colin's latin. I'd hazard a guess most pros don't think either Tom or Chris should have won either.

I do think the males can dance expressively without being effeminate... e.g Mark, Matt DA. I also don't agree that there was anything effeminate about Austin's routines, although I think they could have been choreographed better in other ways by a different pro.

Samba isn't a universal fail- Mark did fine, Matt D did respectably, nor is Rumba- Matt DA Xmas, Goughie (surprisingly). There's no reason why a talented celeb can't manage something good if managed in the right way. Tango has been exceptionally popular vote-wise, most recently on the tour.

On the flip side, I don't think Austin's Paso did fool all the judges or all of the public. A lot on here hated it (me included), Len marked it down for lack of content, and the other judges were clear in their comments that they marked for performance (Craig and Bruno) and taut buttocks or similar (Arlene).

I don't for a minute believe the Charleston won them the show - yes, it is an iconic dance and one they'll long be remembered, rightfully, for, BUT if it was just down to their dancing at any point they would have been out week 3 with the quickstep disaster. I wasn't talking about winning dances, but good dances, and Ola did choreograph the foxtrot (which incidentally gave them a magic moment long before the Charleston), waltz and Viennese waltz....

If any dance won the show for them it was that first-week Rumba - without that, as Ola and Chris have both said, they were favourites to go out....

I didn't mean it in that sense, so maybe I didn't put what I meant very well. Maybe 'defining dance' is a better phrase... at any rate, it seems to me that to the casual observer Chris' win will be remembered (and justified) by the Charleston. The same way Mark is remembered for AT and Salsa, Jill for Jive, Goughie for showdance, Alesha for Waltz... etc.