I'm first to admit that Hayley is no Chris or Ray....so it's a good thing she isn't competing against them !! On THIS series however, she is LIKE the "Ray and Chris" in which I mean she pulls out such show-stopping and entertaining performances. Not everybody loved Ray and Chris, but nobody could deny that they were exceptional!!

(course they both had previous experience...but I wont go into that)

I think the likes of Hayley, Ray and Suzanne are better at the type of dancing that lends itself to ice dancing. Their lines, presentation and performance skills are brilliant and like I said make them look great on the ice. However I think Chris is also a great dancer, just a different kind of dancer. He's into street dancing, which you wouldn't necessarily associate with dancing on ice. Also technically he is amazing, which his spins and jumps prove. Plus his lifts are fab, the table top, the helicopter etc. And like someone already said his performances are always exciting!! I think comparing Chris and Hayley, or Chris and Ray even is hard because they are so different. I suppose it depends what kind of dancing you are into as to who you prefer. But yes his spin did wipe the floor with hers!!

Just like Hayley.

I could never get over the 'ventriloquists dummy brought to life to kill you' element of Ray. He always gave me nightmares.

So that coloured my appreciation of his skating somewhat.

But I'd definitely rather watch Chris than Ray or Hayley any day.

I liked Ray but that did make me laugh! I became a Suzanne fan but did enjoy watching Chris and he has really improved his skating since leaving the show. He had the excitement of that dynamism and fast pace and seems to have finally polished the rough hockey edges off his skating skills.

So a novice couldn't attempt an axel either which happened in the same show!! Apparently he's going to do a headbanger with Brianne on tour & he hasn't turned professional so he's still a novice trying different things. The thing is if you want to learn something, you watch and learn and take all the advice and tips from the professionals you can, to give a better performance and to my mind that is what Chris is doing.

I don't think that can be true.

I even think it's a bit insulting to the top ice dancers, because it kinda implies that they're top only because no one like Ray could be bothered.

Chris has constantly pushed himself with his skating, even since leaving the show. He seems to be using the chance of having a new partner to push his abilities, and the difficulty of his routines, even further. I think that's really admirable.

(Just so long as he doesn't end up injuring Brianne while Kieron still needs her, of course! )

I was not being insulting to the top ice-skaters of today. Ray Quinn has natural talent and if he had put in the same kind of commitment and hours as the top pros he could have made it. It is not a question of not bothering - to make it to the top you have to be single-minded and completely dedicated. Ray Quinn has many irons in different fires and to succeed to the top level in ice-dance he would have to put all his eggs in one basket. so to speak and just concentrate solely on ice-dancing.

I think the crucial thing is that he would have needed to start young. You can't take up something like ice skating & be successful at the highest level as an adult. If he had done ice dance as a kid instead of ballroom then i am sure he could have been very successful as he does seem to have a natural talent for it.

He isnt a noivice any more he has been doing it for two years now.

I agree with th poster who said Ray wasnt given really memorable routines as a series I think DOI peaked in series 3 with some great routines two great c elebs battling it out and I think since then the choreograpy has looked tired last year and this year and very predictable.

With Ray some aspects of his dancing skills were never really utilised this year there is one or two good routines and the others very tired and very samey - maybe it is time to let the pros help with the routines

You seemed to be saying he could have done it in a few years time after DOI. He couldn't have started as a child and been world champ in a few years time, so the "few years time" part must have meant starting later.

But I would question the "in a few years time" in any case.

Yes, though it's still not clear he could have been a world champion.

Maria thought Ray could have been an Olympic champion

http://entertainment.stv.tv/tv/82447...er-says-maria/

Maria didn't say that Ray could do DOI and then enter the Olympics shortly after.

I didn't know you were such a close friend of his, knowing all his daily business!!

I loved Hayley's routine last week, fantastic music, costumes, and executed perfectly. But for me the only technical thing she did was the spin and while she did four revolutions and it was perfect, it certainly was not done with any great speed. Chris's spin was sensational by comparison. I also didn't get why they warranted all judges standing up in ovation last week either, YES it was very very good and hugely enjoyable but they made it out like it was the best routine EVER seen on DOI, and it certainly wasn't. When Hayley can do a fast headbanger with a twister thrown in like Suzanne, then I will revise my opinion. For me Chris and Suzanne are the best, they had the whole package... Ray got on my wick even though he was in a league of his own last year.

I wasn't really comparing that with specific routines, just saying we haven't seen nearly that much solo skating from Hayley overall (the original version of that routine from earlier in the series had about the same amount if I recall...). I would like Hayley to prove her skating abilities if she's to win.

I agree about the choreography last year though. The only performance I really remember of Ray's is Rock Around The Clock. I think it's been a bit better this year though, certainly in recent weeks.

I think it's all in the "eye of the beholder" because I never did see what so many other people saw in Kyran. For me, he was OK, but nothing special.