TVCatchup Crackdown On VPN Use

Dogmatix · 13-03-2010, 17:18

The folks at TVCatchup have done a major crackdown on the use of VPN's to access their services. They work on the theory that anyone trying to use a VPN to watch channels on TVC is probably doing so from outwith the UK, and they have always reacted rather allergically on that subject, calling such use evil and illegal. On Thursday they started to deny access via a number of VPN's through which access was hitherto possible (although against their T&C), and banned some members suspected of having used a PVN.

On Thursday evening, a number of TVC members received a clearly targeted e-mail from a 'new' VPN service, 'UKPVN' with subject line: 'Has your VPN service let you down?' and advertising their services as being more able than others. The point here is that this e-mail was sent to TVC members, at addresses which some use exclusively for TVC, a short time after TVC's VPN crackdown. This means that either a person not connected with TCV has gained access to their member data base to extract e-mail addresses, or, as some have suspected, that is was an 'inside job'. On the TVC forum, any such suspicion has been deleted by TVC, and posters thereof banned. The forum thread dealing with the subject has been closed, and even a post suggesting that TVC's data is not secure and that TVC owes their members an explanation or apology has been deleted without reason. TCV have always been very paranoid and high-handed in their forum, deleting posts they don't like and refusing to answer criticisms properly.

Of course, it is their forum, and they can do what they like - close any thread they want, delete any post they don't like, and ban anyone they like, for no reason. You do have to watch what you write over there.

TCV have, very courageously, planned to lift geo-blocking and allow open access to the EU, in what they see as accordance with a recent EU directive on blocking streams. This is a noble cause, and TVC are to be commended for tackling it. So far, however, they have not received legal clearance for this - obviously, and correctly, they cannot go ahead otherwise - and they have rebuffed any suggestion that, say, the BBC might block any such attempt, or revoke TCV's permission to stream BBC. Again, however, they have high-handedly closed the thread dealing with this topic, and refuse to say anything more about it, claiming that they have no information. Even questions about their interpretation of the said directive have gone unanswered or been deleted. Much as I would be happy to see TVC (and Zattoo et al) be able to go ahead with this scheme, I cannot see it happening (even if their interpretation of the directive is correct, which I doubt) as their are just too many vested interests in high places.

NEWLINEtv · 13-03-2010, 20:38

TVCatchup's service is illegal anyways.

Dogmatix · 13-03-2010, 23:05

How do you make that out? According to Wikipedia, their current sevice has been declared legal.

NEWLINEtv · 14-03-2010, 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogmatix

How do you make that out? According to Wikipedia, their current sevice has been declared legal.

I have spoken with ITV, Channel 4 and Five about the legality of TVCatchup and all said they know of the service and can confirm that TVCatchup is running illegally.

The BBC and ITV have to pay extra to the Movie studios to stream online, thats why the movies are blacked out on their streams (if they don't pay for the rights), both broadcasters have to pay extra money to stream Football matches online, yet TVCatchup take a terresterial stream (from a Freeview box, as stated on their forum) and stream any channel they like online, without paying any royaltys for the Movies and Sporting events, so thats why TVCatchup is an illegal service, FACT (Federation Against Copyright Theft) are aware of TVCatchup's service.

NEWLINEtv · 14-03-2010, 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogmatix

According to Wikipedia, their current sevice has been declared legal.

Any anyone can edit wikipedia (if the pages are not semi/locked)

NEWLINEtv · 14-03-2010, 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEWLINEtv

I have spoken with ITV, Channel 4 and Five about the legality of TVCatchup and all said they know of the service and can confirm that TVCatchup is running illegally.

The BBC and ITV have to pay extra to the Movie studios to stream online, thats why the movies are blacked out on their streams (if they don't pay for the rights), both broadcasters have to pay extra money to stream Football matches online, yet TVCatchup take a terresterial stream (from a Freeview box, as stated on their forum) and stream any channel they like online, without paying any royaltys for the Movies and Sporting events, so thats why TVCatchup is an illegal service, FACT (Federation Against Copyright Theft) are aware of TVCatchup's service.

I forgot to also mention, to stream US Imports online extra royalty fee's are required, yet TVCatchup doesn't pay for them either.

flobadob · 14-03-2010, 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogmatix

TCV have, very courageously, planned to lift geo-blocking and allow open access to the EU, in what they see as accordance with a recent EU directive on blocking streams. This is a noble cause, and TVC are to be commended for tackling it. So far, however, they have not received legal clearance for this - obviously, and correctly, they cannot go ahead otherwise

Yeah, but it's never going to happen, is it? TVC have never been able to point to the clause in the AVMS Directive which would allow them to lift geo-blocking. Still, they said they would lift it when the British Government adopted the Directive. But when the DCMS announced that the British Government had accepted the Directive in full and informed the EC of this, TVC said that they were awaiting an Ofcom ruling, which they gave no details about, and they also requested that posters not contact Ofcom with questions about this matter.

I don't know what TVC is up to, but I'll eat my hat if they ever do drop geo-blocking.

flobadob · 14-03-2010, 13:41

duplicated post

Dogmatix · 14-03-2010, 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEWLINEtv

I have spoken with ITV, Channel 4 and Five about the legality of TVCatchup and all said they know of the service and can confirm that TVCatchup is running illegally.

So why don't they have TVC closed down, then?

NEWLINEtv · 14-03-2010, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogmatix

So why don't they have TVC closed down, then?

I don't know what's going on behind the scenes,

It could be a case of the reception at the broadcasters not being told anything from higher up, i duno

Dogmatix · 14-03-2010, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by flobadob

Yeah, but it's never going to happen, is it?

They closed their peering test page* a couple of weeks ago, after several weeks of 'down for maintenance'. Appeals on their forum to explain this were, typically for TVC, ignored or deleted.

*The peering test was a way for EU would-be users to check if their ISP was peered with theirs, a pre-requisite for use once geo-blocking was lifted. However, many large european ISPs, like Deutsche Telekom, remained unpeered with TVC's ISP. TVC's advice to customers of unpeered ISPs was: change your ISP. Any suggestion that perhaps their ISP might not be ideal was, as ususal, met with scorn (or deleted), but not with explanation.

Dogmatix · 14-03-2010, 18:22

TVC have the cheek to say on their forum: "Zattoo is an illegaly operating website, we should be in no way associated or compared to this group."

I should have thought that either neither is illegal, or both.

NEWLINEtv · 14-03-2010, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogmatix

TVC have the cheek to say on their forum: "Zattoo is an illegaly operating website, we should be in no way associated or compared to this group."

I should have thought that either neither is illegal, or both.

To my understanding, both services are illegal.

flobadob · 14-03-2010, 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogmatix

TVC have the cheek to say on their forum: "Zattoo is an illegaly operating website, we should be in no way associated or compared to this group."

I should have thought that either neither is illegal, or both.

At TVC they would remind you that they are all lawyers, and are experts at this sort of thing.

All of this, of course, without an explanation.

Then they would delete your post. Lawyers my arse - they're a bunch of kids playing at business.

Dogmatix · 14-03-2010, 22:10

Well, they still think it's going to happen 'soon':

"Just keep your fingers crossed that we get approval to drop the geo-blocking soon and then there will be no need for VPN's in the EU."

(posted by a TVC person this evening).

I think it'll take a lot more than a few crossed fingers...

flobadob · 15-03-2010, 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogmatix

Well, they still think it's going to happen 'soon':

"Just keep your fingers crossed that we get approval to drop the geo-blocking soon and then there will be no need for VPN's in the EU."

(posted by a TVC person this evening).

I think it'll take a lot more than a few crossed fingers...

I think the site is run by the same people who built the Large Hadron Collider - it's going to be brilliant, just as soon as we get it sorted out. And that will be SOON.

ashjf · 15-03-2010, 17:14

The BBC have already taken TVC to court and it was ruled a legal service once they stopped allowing people to record shows.

The Phazer · 15-03-2010, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashjf

The BBC have already taken TVC to court and it was ruled a legal service once they stopped allowing people to record shows.

No they haven't, and no court has remotely ruled this.

Phazer

Hayley_baby · 15-03-2010, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Phazer

No they haven't, and no court has remotely ruled this.

Phazer

''TVCatchup told informitv that it had gone to some lengths with solicitors and a barrister to determine the legality of its service. It also claimed that the broadcasters tested the service prior to its public launch and raised no objections''

http://informitv.com/news/2008/11/27/tvcatchupreturns/

The Phazer · 15-03-2010, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayley_baby

''TVCatchup told informitv that it had gone to some lengths with solicitors and a barrister to determine the legality of its service. It also claimed that the broadcasters tested the service prior to its public launch and raised no objections''

http://informitv.com/news/2008/11/27/tvcatchupreturns/

A barrister is not a court. They could ask a barrister for advice, but it really means absolutely nothing other than that is that barrister's opinion about how a legal case would go.

I stand by my statement that TV Catchup has never been taken to court, and no court has "ruled" anything like that suggested.

Phazer

grabbi · 16-03-2010, 00:22

As far as I am aware, and having been with TVC for some time now, they went up with a PVR function. They then shut down because of legal proceedings, stating that it was 'a good run' or something to that effect.

Then, the service was back without the use of PVR and on Demand, and now just broadcasts all Freeview shows on a live basis.

Whether illegal or not, it is still up, and that must mean that there is some legal ground TVC stands on. Otherwise, it simply wouldnt be there.

I cant see why it couldnt be deemed legal. After all, it is just basically a Freeview website. Its the same as watching a Freeview box, without the box. Chances are, the same amount of people have a TV License that are watching it on the TV. And I support the site staying up. If these channels want outlets, then the Internet should be more embraced than it currently is by the channels available. Kudos to the person with the initiative to clump together and do this.

DJGM · 16-03-2010, 01:58

Aside for the legal argument, I can't understand why it's still called TV Catchup, when all it does
now is live streaming free-to-air TV channels over the internet. Since they were forced to close
down their remote PVR service a while back, it's name TV Catchup is effectively a misnomer.

I'm sure if their current site were forced to close due to a legal ruling, it'd eventually re-surface
with a new name and a new website, with the same live streaming of free-to-air TV channels.

NEWLINEtv · 16-03-2010, 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by grabbi

I cant see why it couldnt be deemed legal. After all, it is just basically a Freeview website. Its the same as watching a Freeview box, without the box.

It's completely different, TVC are breaking UK Laws on Copyright Theft of Music, Entertainment, Movies and Sporting Events, TVC don't pay any royalty's.

Think of it like this, Sky Player, Sky has to pay extra fee's to stream their channels online, and what fee's they don't pay for the programme in question is blacked out, the other channels "streaming" on Sky Player, many of the programmes (according to Sky, I can't verify as I don't have Sky Player) are blocked out because the broadcasters have not paid the extra royalty fee's required to legally stream programmes online, thats why some programmes are blacked out for.

TVC would loose in court against FACT, BPI & The MPAA.

ashjf · 16-03-2010, 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEWLINEtv

It's completely different, TVC are breaking UK Laws on Copyright Theft of Music, Entertainment, Movies and Sporting Events, TVC don't pay any royalty's.

Think of it like this, Sky Player, Sky has to pay extra fee's to stream their channels online, and what fee's they don't pay for the programme in question is blacked out, the other channels "streaming" on Sky Player, many of the programmes (according to Sky, I can't verify as I don't have Sky Player) are blocked out because the broadcasters have not paid the extra royalty fee's required to legally stream programmes online, thats why some programmes are blacked out for.

TVC would loose in court against FACT, BPI & The MPAA.

And please explain how you know 100% that TVC dont pay any royalties or that no money has ever changed hands from TVC to the broadcasters.
Also, If it was illegal they would not have lasted this long, specially if the BBC got involved. The broadcasters didnt like the record function on the old TVC.

NEWLINEtv · 16-03-2010, 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashjf

And please explain how you know 100% that TVC dont pay any royalties or that no money has ever changed hands from TVC to the broadcasters.

Because it has been mentioned on their forums before by TVC_Daniel but has since been removed like many other posts on their forum which get removed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashjf

Also, If it was illegal they would not have lasted this long, specially if the BBC got involved. The broadcasters didnt like the record function on the old TVC.

Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just going off what the broadcasters told me.

13-03-2010, 17:18	#1
Dogmatix Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: European Union Posts: 1,640	TVCatchup Crackdown On VPN Use The folks at TVCatchup have done a major crackdown on the use of VPN's to access their services. They work on the theory that anyone trying to use a VPN to watch channels on TVC is probably doing so from outwith the UK, and they have always reacted rather allergically on that subject, calling such use evil and illegal. On Thursday they started to deny access via a number of VPN's through which access was hitherto possible (although against their T&C), and banned some members suspected of having used a PVN. On Thursday evening, a number of TVC members received a clearly targeted e-mail from a 'new' VPN service, 'UKPVN' with subject line: 'Has your VPN service let you down?' and advertising their services as being more able than others. The point here is that this e-mail was sent to TVC members, at addresses which some use exclusively for TVC, a short time after TVC's VPN crackdown. This means that either a person not connected with TCV has gained access to their member data base to extract e-mail addresses, or, as some have suspected, that is was an 'inside job'. On the TVC forum, any such suspicion has been deleted by TVC, and posters thereof banned. The forum thread dealing with the subject has been closed, and even a post suggesting that TVC's data is not secure and that TVC owes their members an explanation or apology has been deleted without reason. TCV have always been very paranoid and high-handed in their forum, deleting posts they don't like and refusing to answer criticisms properly. Of course, it is their forum, and they can do what they like - close any thread they want, delete any post they don't like, and ban anyone they like, for no reason. You do have to watch what you write over there. TCV have, very courageously, planned to lift geo-blocking and allow open access to the EU, in what they see as accordance with a recent EU directive on blocking streams. This is a noble cause, and TVC are to be commended for tackling it. So far, however, they have not received legal clearance for this - obviously, and correctly, they cannot go ahead otherwise - and they have rebuffed any suggestion that, say, the BBC might block any such attempt, or revoke TCV's permission to stream BBC. Again, however, they have high-handedly closed the thread dealing with this topic, and refuse to say anything more about it, claiming that they have no information. Even questions about their interpretation of the said directive have gone unanswered or been deleted. Much as I would be happy to see TVC (and Zattoo et al) be able to go ahead with this scheme, I cannot see it happening (even if their interpretation of the directive is correct, which I doubt) as their are just too many vested interests in high places.

13-03-2010, 20:38	#2
NEWLINEtv Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,304	TVCatchup's service is illegal anyways.

13-03-2010, 23:05	#3
Dogmatix Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: European Union Posts: 1,640	How do you make that out? According to Wikipedia, their current sevice has been declared legal.

14-03-2010, 08:38	#4
NEWLINEtv Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,304	Quote: Originally Posted by Dogmatix How do you make that out? According to Wikipedia, their current sevice has been declared legal. I have spoken with ITV, Channel 4 and Five about the legality of TVCatchup and all said they know of the service and can confirm that TVCatchup is running illegally. The BBC and ITV have to pay extra to the Movie studios to stream online, thats why the movies are blacked out on their streams (if they don't pay for the rights), both broadcasters have to pay extra money to stream Football matches online, yet TVCatchup take a terresterial stream (from a Freeview box, as stated on their forum) and stream any channel they like online, without paying any royaltys for the Movies and Sporting events, so thats why TVCatchup is an illegal service, FACT (Federation Against Copyright Theft) are aware of TVCatchup's service.

14-03-2010, 09:52	#5
NEWLINEtv Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,304	Quote: Originally Posted by Dogmatix According to Wikipedia, their current sevice has been declared legal. Any anyone can edit wikipedia (if the pages are not semi/locked)

14-03-2010, 09:57	#6
NEWLINEtv Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,304	Quote: Originally Posted by NEWLINEtv I have spoken with ITV, Channel 4 and Five about the legality of TVCatchup and all said they know of the service and can confirm that TVCatchup is running illegally. The BBC and ITV have to pay extra to the Movie studios to stream online, thats why the movies are blacked out on their streams (if they don't pay for the rights), both broadcasters have to pay extra money to stream Football matches online, yet TVCatchup take a terresterial stream (from a Freeview box, as stated on their forum) and stream any channel they like online, without paying any royaltys for the Movies and Sporting events, so thats why TVCatchup is an illegal service, FACT (Federation Against Copyright Theft) are aware of TVCatchup's service. I forgot to also mention, to stream US Imports online extra royalty fee's are required, yet TVCatchup doesn't pay for them either.

14-03-2010, 13:40	#7
flobadob Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 11,682	Quote: Originally Posted by Dogmatix TCV have, very courageously, planned to lift geo-blocking and allow open access to the EU, in what they see as accordance with a recent EU directive on blocking streams. This is a noble cause, and TVC are to be commended for tackling it. So far, however, they have not received legal clearance for this - obviously, and correctly, they cannot go ahead otherwise Yeah, but it's never going to happen, is it? TVC have never been able to point to the clause in the AVMS Directive which would allow them to lift geo-blocking. Still, they said they would lift it when the British Government adopted the Directive. But when the DCMS announced that the British Government had accepted the Directive in full and informed the EC of this, TVC said that they were awaiting an Ofcom ruling, which they gave no details about, and they also requested that posters not contact Ofcom with questions about this matter. I don't know what TVC is up to, but I'll eat my hat if they ever do drop geo-blocking.

14-03-2010, 13:41	#8
flobadob Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 11,682	duplicated post

14-03-2010, 15:58	#9
Dogmatix Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: European Union Posts: 1,640	Quote: Originally Posted by NEWLINEtv I have spoken with ITV, Channel 4 and Five about the legality of TVCatchup and all said they know of the service and can confirm that TVCatchup is running illegally. So why don't they have TVC closed down, then?

14-03-2010, 16:02	#10
NEWLINEtv Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,304	Quote: Originally Posted by Dogmatix So why don't they have TVC closed down, then? I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, It could be a case of the reception at the broadcasters not being told anything from higher up, i duno

14-03-2010, 18:13	#11
Dogmatix Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: European Union Posts: 1,640	Quote: Originally Posted by flobadob Yeah, but it's never going to happen, is it? They closed their peering test page* a couple of weeks ago, after several weeks of 'down for maintenance'. Appeals on their forum to explain this were, typically for TVC, ignored or deleted. *The peering test was a way for EU would-be users to check if their ISP was peered with theirs, a pre-requisite for use once geo-blocking was lifted. However, many large european ISPs, like Deutsche Telekom, remained unpeered with TVC's ISP. TVC's advice to customers of unpeered ISPs was: change your ISP. Any suggestion that perhaps their ISP might not be ideal was, as ususal, met with scorn (or deleted), but not with explanation.

14-03-2010, 18:22	#12
Dogmatix Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: European Union Posts: 1,640	TVC have the cheek to say on their forum: "Zattoo is an illegaly operating website, we should be in no way associated or compared to this group." I should have thought that either neither is illegal, or both.

14-03-2010, 18:35	#13
NEWLINEtv Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,304	Quote: Originally Posted by Dogmatix TVC have the cheek to say on their forum: "Zattoo is an illegaly operating website, we should be in no way associated or compared to this group." I should have thought that either neither is illegal, or both. To my understanding, both services are illegal.

14-03-2010, 19:11	#14
flobadob Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 11,682	Quote: Originally Posted by Dogmatix TVC have the cheek to say on their forum: "Zattoo is an illegaly operating website, we should be in no way associated or compared to this group." I should have thought that either neither is illegal, or both. At TVC they would remind you that they are all lawyers, and are experts at this sort of thing. All of this, of course, without an explanation. Then they would delete your post. Lawyers my arse - they're a bunch of kids playing at business.

14-03-2010, 22:10	#15
Dogmatix Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: European Union Posts: 1,640	Well, they still think it's going to happen 'soon': "Just keep your fingers crossed that we get approval to drop the geo-blocking soon and then there will be no need for VPN's in the EU." (posted by a TVC person this evening). I think it'll take a lot more than a few crossed fingers...

15-03-2010, 06:10	#16
flobadob Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 11,682	Quote: Originally Posted by Dogmatix Well, they still think it's going to happen 'soon': "Just keep your fingers crossed that we get approval to drop the geo-blocking soon and then there will be no need for VPN's in the EU." (posted by a TVC person this evening). I think it'll take a lot more than a few crossed fingers... I think the site is run by the same people who built the Large Hadron Collider - it's going to be brilliant, just as soon as we get it sorted out. And that will be SOON.

15-03-2010, 17:14	#17
ashjf Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: South East Posts: 909	The BBC have already taken TVC to court and it was ruled a legal service once they stopped allowing people to record shows.

15-03-2010, 19:52	#18
The Phazer Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 8,213	Quote: Originally Posted by ashjf The BBC have already taken TVC to court and it was ruled a legal service once they stopped allowing people to record shows. No they haven't, and no court has remotely ruled this. Phazer

15-03-2010, 21:37	#19
Hayley_baby Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,183	Quote: Originally Posted by The Phazer No they haven't, and no court has remotely ruled this. Phazer ''TVCatchup told informitv that it had gone to some lengths with solicitors and a barrister to determine the legality of its service. It also claimed that the broadcasters tested the service prior to its public launch and raised no objections'' http://informitv.com/news/2008/11/27/tvcatchupreturns/

15-03-2010, 22:40	#20
The Phazer Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 8,213	Quote: Originally Posted by Hayley_baby ''TVCatchup told informitv that it had gone to some lengths with solicitors and a barrister to determine the legality of its service. It also claimed that the broadcasters tested the service prior to its public launch and raised no objections'' http://informitv.com/news/2008/11/27/tvcatchupreturns/ A barrister is not a court. They could ask a barrister for advice, but it really means absolutely nothing other than that is that barrister's opinion about how a legal case would go. I stand by my statement that TV Catchup has never been taken to court, and no court has "ruled" anything like that suggested. Phazer

16-03-2010, 00:22	#21
grabbi Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: YouTube.com/CallOfDuteh Posts: 5,333	As far as I am aware, and having been with TVC for some time now, they went up with a PVR function. They then shut down because of legal proceedings, stating that it was 'a good run' or something to that effect. Then, the service was back without the use of PVR and on Demand, and now just broadcasts all Freeview shows on a live basis. Whether illegal or not, it is still up, and that must mean that there is some legal ground TVC stands on. Otherwise, it simply wouldnt be there. I cant see why it couldnt be deemed legal. After all, it is just basically a Freeview website. Its the same as watching a Freeview box, without the box. Chances are, the same amount of people have a TV License that are watching it on the TV. And I support the site staying up. If these channels want outlets, then the Internet should be more embraced than it currently is by the channels available. Kudos to the person with the initiative to clump together and do this.

DS Forums

TVCatchup Crackdown On VPN Use

16-03-2010, 01:58	#22
DJGM Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Whitefield, Manchester Posts: 3,726	Aside for the legal argument, I can't understand why it's still called TV Catchup, when all it does now is live streaming free-to-air TV channels over the internet. Since they were forced to close down their remote PVR service a while back, it's name TV Catchup is effectively a misnomer. I'm sure if their current site were forced to close due to a legal ruling, it'd eventually re-surface with a new name and a new website, with the same live streaming of free-to-air TV channels.

16-03-2010, 07:48	#23
NEWLINEtv Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,304	Quote: Originally Posted by grabbi I cant see why it couldnt be deemed legal. After all, it is just basically a Freeview website. Its the same as watching a Freeview box, without the box. It's completely different, TVC are breaking UK Laws on Copyright Theft of Music, Entertainment, Movies and Sporting Events, TVC don't pay any royalty's. Think of it like this, Sky Player, Sky has to pay extra fee's to stream their channels online, and what fee's they don't pay for the programme in question is blacked out, the other channels "streaming" on Sky Player, many of the programmes (according to Sky, I can't verify as I don't have Sky Player) are blocked out because the broadcasters have not paid the extra royalty fee's required to legally stream programmes online, thats why some programmes are blacked out for. TVC would loose in court against FACT, BPI & The MPAA.

16-03-2010, 07:55	#24
ashjf Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: South East Posts: 909	Quote: Originally Posted by NEWLINEtv It's completely different, TVC are breaking UK Laws on Copyright Theft of Music, Entertainment, Movies and Sporting Events, TVC don't pay any royalty's. Think of it like this, Sky Player, Sky has to pay extra fee's to stream their channels online, and what fee's they don't pay for the programme in question is blacked out, the other channels "streaming" on Sky Player, many of the programmes (according to Sky, I can't verify as I don't have Sky Player) are blocked out because the broadcasters have not paid the extra royalty fee's required to legally stream programmes online, thats why some programmes are blacked out for. TVC would loose in court against FACT, BPI & The MPAA. And please explain how you know 100% that TVC dont pay any royalties or that no money has ever changed hands from TVC to the broadcasters. Also, If it was illegal they would not have lasted this long, specially if the BBC got involved. The broadcasters didnt like the record function on the old TVC.

16-03-2010, 08:01	#25
NEWLINEtv Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,304	Quote: Originally Posted by ashjf And please explain how you know 100% that TVC dont pay any royalties or that no money has ever changed hands from TVC to the broadcasters. Because it has been mentioned on their forums before by TVC_Daniel but has since been removed like many other posts on their forum which get removed. Quote: Originally Posted by ashjf Also, If it was illegal they would not have lasted this long, specially if the BBC got involved. The broadcasters didnt like the record function on the old TVC. Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just going off what the broadcasters told me.