I've defended Nicky all series but even I was a bit puzzled by his scoring tonight - especially as Karen and Robyn (both pro skaters) disagreed so vehemently with him.
What is Nicky Slater on?
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Nicky is my least fav judge and some things he does are just 
But I have to say I agreed with him tonight re Hayley. Oh my god, I'm agreeing with Nicky...
But I have to say I agreed with him tonight re Hayley. Oh my god, I'm agreeing with Nicky...
I don't know anything about skating but as Karen and Robyn disagreed with him then I agree that he is just tryign to get air time. I think he knows he's not as important to the show as Jason is and has made some misguided attempts at creating a TV persona for himself. Doubt he will be here next year.
Originally Posted by -Sid-:
“I've defended Nicky all series but even I was a bit puzzled by his scoring tonight - especially as Karen and Robyn (both pro skaters) disagreed so vehemently with him.”
“I've defended Nicky all series but even I was a bit puzzled by his scoring tonight - especially as Karen and Robyn (both pro skaters) disagreed so vehemently with him.”
Giving Hayley a lower score than Gary was rather weird, but Nicky beats me when it comes to scoring.
Originally Posted by Vodka_Drinka:
“I'm getting a bit fed up of his attention seeking marking. Its quite obvious he's either marking people up or down so that he can get some airtime and take the attention of Jason. Giving Gary a 5.5 for what a pretty bland, forgetable routine is a joke.
I can't stand him or his massive ego!”
“I'm getting a bit fed up of his attention seeking marking. Its quite obvious he's either marking people up or down so that he can get some airtime and take the attention of Jason. Giving Gary a 5.5 for what a pretty bland, forgetable routine is a joke.
I can't stand him or his massive ego!”
I don't know what he's drinking, but I'm sure it's on the rocks
Originally Posted by lach doch mal:
“Giving Hayley a lower score than Gary was rather weird, but Nicky beats me when it comes to scoring.”
“Giving Hayley a lower score than Gary was rather weird, but Nicky beats me when it comes to scoring.”
He gave Gary 5.5 then Danniella 4.0
Then says he wanted to save Danniella
But then Robin had to choose for Nicky for who he wanted to save resulting in somebody staying and leaving.
Nicky's scores and the skate off was odd.
Originally Posted by xKatieLx:
“He gave Gary 5.5 then Danniella 4.0
Then says he wanted to save Danniella
But then Robin had to choose for Nicky for who he wanted to save resulting in somebody staying and leaving.
Nicky's scores and the skate off was odd.”
“He gave Gary 5.5 then Danniella 4.0
Then says he wanted to save Danniella
But then Robin had to choose for Nicky for who he wanted to save resulting in somebody staying and leaving.
Nicky's scores and the skate off was odd.”
Actually I would agree on that, he is not consistent at all.
Originally Posted by lach doch mal:
“Giving Hayley a lower score than Gary was rather weird, but Nicky beats me when it comes to scoring.”
“Giving Hayley a lower score than Gary was rather weird, but Nicky beats me when it comes to scoring.”
Yes it all went wrong from his opening score!
I don't mind that he starts low to give himself room to maneuver but how he ranked Gary above Hayley I'll never know.
As a professional Ice Dancer, I would assume he's marking based on both technical proficiency and musical interpretation but it seems he's only taking the former into account (although Karen pointed out that even Gary's skating, which is usually his strength, had issues tonight so Nicky's scoring was even more baffling).
Like many real skating judges Nicky gives a lot of extra credit for things done at speed over the ice (because everything is much more difficult at speed). He spoke about exactly why he scored as he did. Hayley's routine was slow over the ice (this is independant of whether the music is fast or slow). Gary's solo skating was executed faster and had more content including a different turn (inside 3). His performance skills aren't up to Hayley's but his actual skating skills are way better.
I was busy wondering what Robin was on to give Hayley's slow and rather unexciting routine, although nicely executed, a 6.0
I don't think he wanted to save Daniella at all - he just wanted to avoid being criticised for saving someone who apparently 'fell' which most people seem to think means an automatic dismissal. By stating that the fall didn't count for part of the routine he was free to save Gary as he wanted to.
I was busy wondering what Robin was on to give Hayley's slow and rather unexciting routine, although nicely executed, a 6.0
I don't think he wanted to save Daniella at all - he just wanted to avoid being criticised for saving someone who apparently 'fell' which most people seem to think means an automatic dismissal. By stating that the fall didn't count for part of the routine he was free to save Gary as he wanted to.
Originally Posted by -Sid-:
“Yes it all went wrong from his opening score!
I don't mind that he starts low to give himself room to maneuver but how he ranked Gary above Hayley I'll never know.
As a professional Ice Dancer, I would assume he's marking based on both technical proficiency and musical interpretation but it seems he's only taking the former into account (although Karen pointed out that even Gary's skating, which is usually his strength, had issues tonight so Nicky's scoring was even more baffling).”
“Yes it all went wrong from his opening score!
I don't mind that he starts low to give himself room to maneuver but how he ranked Gary above Hayley I'll never know.
As a professional Ice Dancer, I would assume he's marking based on both technical proficiency and musical interpretation but it seems he's only taking the former into account (although Karen pointed out that even Gary's skating, which is usually his strength, had issues tonight so Nicky's scoring was even more baffling).”
Tonight was weird, I wonder if he watches the show back and cringes in embarrassment.
Originally Posted by Syqo:
“I agree. His inconsistency is shocking. And judging by his body language, it is all for attention. Gary skated well tonight but I don't know how he could give him a 5.5 and Hayley a 5.0. And it's called Dancing on Ice so the performance should also be taken into account, not just the skating. Hayley's performance and overall routine was much better than Gary's. Nicky just concentrates on the skating and inflates/reduces the mark accordingly so that he can offer his appraisal.”
“I agree. His inconsistency is shocking. And judging by his body language, it is all for attention. Gary skated well tonight but I don't know how he could give him a 5.5 and Hayley a 5.0. And it's called Dancing on Ice so the performance should also be taken into account, not just the skating. Hayley's performance and overall routine was much better than Gary's. Nicky just concentrates on the skating and inflates/reduces the mark accordingly so that he can offer his appraisal.”
The "performance judges" (Jason and Emma) mark primarily on performance, so why shouldn't one of the "skating judges" mark primarily on skating?
Originally Posted by jill1812:
“I was surprised he marked Daniella so high last week when he does drone on about it being all about the skating. He's so inconsistent.”
“I was surprised he marked Daniella so high last week when he does drone on about it being all about the skating. He's so inconsistent.”
The prop is an unusual required element because it's involved in most of the routine; and, as Robin said, it was a week when skating woud take a bit of a back seat. So props week shouldn't be marked the same as other weeks.
Originally Posted by icedragon:
“Like many real skating judges Nicky gives a lot of extra credit for things done at speed over the ice (because everything is much more difficult at speed). He spoke about exactly why he scored as he did. Hayley's routine was slow over the ice (this is independant of whether the music is fast or slow). Gary's solo skating was executed faster and had more content including a different turn (inside 3). His performance skills aren't up to Hayley's but his actual skating skills are way better.
I was busy wondering what Robin was on to give Hayley's slow and rather unexciting routine, although nicely executed, a 6.0
...”
“Like many real skating judges Nicky gives a lot of extra credit for things done at speed over the ice (because everything is much more difficult at speed). He spoke about exactly why he scored as he did. Hayley's routine was slow over the ice (this is independant of whether the music is fast or slow). Gary's solo skating was executed faster and had more content including a different turn (inside 3). His performance skills aren't up to Hayley's but his actual skating skills are way better.
I was busy wondering what Robin was on to give Hayley's slow and rather unexciting routine, although nicely executed, a 6.0
...”
I think Nicky's marks generally make a fair amount of sense.
Originally Posted by Veri:
“The "performance judges" (Jason and Emma) mark primarily on performance, so why shouldn't one of the "skating judges" mark primarily on skating?
The prop is an unusual required element because it's involved in most of the routine; and, as Robin said, it was a week when skating woud take a bit of a back seat. So props week shouldn't be marked the same as other weeks.
I think Nicky's marks generally make a fair amount of sense.”
“The "performance judges" (Jason and Emma) mark primarily on performance, so why shouldn't one of the "skating judges" mark primarily on skating?
The prop is an unusual required element because it's involved in most of the routine; and, as Robin said, it was a week when skating woud take a bit of a back seat. So props week shouldn't be marked the same as other weeks.
I think Nicky's marks generally make a fair amount of sense.”
I agree with the first two points here. I think it's perfectly fair for at least one of the skating judges to place emphasis on that rather than performance considering that there are two judges there that obviously do the reverse.
It's not particularly strange that someone who usually places emphasis on skating should place less emphasis on it during a week that, by its very nature, does just that.
On the third point I'm less sure. Nicky's marks sometimes do leave me wondering what he's been sniffing (not tonight - if he is concentrating on skating tonight's marks make perfect sense).
Originally Posted by tabithakitten:
“I agree with the first two points here. I think it's perfectly fair for at least one of the skating judges to place emphasis on that rather than performance considering that there are two judges there that obviously do the reverse.
It's not particularly strange that someone who usually places emphasis on skating should place less emphasis on it during a week that, by its very nature, does just that.
On the third point I'm less sure. Nicky's marks sometimes do leave me wondering what he's been sniffing (not tonight - if he is concentrating on skating tonight's marks make perfect sense).”
“I agree with the first two points here. I think it's perfectly fair for at least one of the skating judges to place emphasis on that rather than performance considering that there are two judges there that obviously do the reverse.
It's not particularly strange that someone who usually places emphasis on skating should place less emphasis on it during a week that, by its very nature, does just that.
On the third point I'm less sure. Nicky's marks sometimes do leave me wondering what he's been sniffing (not tonight - if he is concentrating on skating tonight's marks make perfect sense).”
But even based on skating alone, was Gary really the best on the night as Nicky's mark implied?
Karen said Gary was on his toes a bit too much (and she made a second criticism which eludes me now).
Originally Posted by -Sid-:
“But even based on skating alone, was Gary really the best on the night as Nicky's mark implied?
Karen said Gary was on his toes a bit too much (and she made a second criticism which eludes me now).”
“But even based on skating alone, was Gary really the best on the night as Nicky's mark implied?
Karen said Gary was on his toes a bit too much (and she made a second criticism which eludes me now).”
Possibly not - I think he should have tied with Hayley tbh. However, Nicky has championed Gary's skating skills for a while now so it's not surprising that he continues to do so. I think he's overcompensating a bit for Jason who, when it comes to Gary, neglects the skating in favour of the performance rather more than he should imo.
Originally Posted by tabithakitten:
“Possibly not - I think he should have tied with Hayley tbh. However, Nicky has championed Gary's skating skills for a while now so it's not surprising that he continues to do so. I think he's overcompensating a bit for Jason who, when it comes to Gary, neglects the skating in favour of the performance rather more than he should imo.”
“Possibly not - I think he should have tied with Hayley tbh. However, Nicky has championed Gary's skating skills for a while now so it's not surprising that he continues to do so. I think he's overcompensating a bit for Jason who, when it comes to Gary, neglects the skating in favour of the performance rather more than he should imo.”
Do you disagree with icedragon's account, above?
It seems to me that there's a reasonably good case thatr Nicky had it right. Certainly his opinion seems to be within reasonably bounds, rather than being something that's clearly wrong.
Originally Posted by Veri:
“Do you disagree with icedragon's account, above?
It seems to me that there's a reasonably good case thatr Nicky had it right. Certainly his opinion seems to be within reasonably bounds, rather than being something that's clearly wrong.”
“Do you disagree with icedragon's account, above?
It seems to me that there's a reasonably good case thatr Nicky had it right. Certainly his opinion seems to be within reasonably bounds, rather than being something that's clearly wrong.”
Oh you know me - I can often be swayed by the latest argument
. I was a bit surprised that Nicky marked Gary above Hayley - I thought she skated her solo competently and looked a little more comfortable than he did. However, Nicky has always given credit for Gary's skating skills and was obviously doing so again (and I do think there may be an element of compensation - I'll hold back on overcompensation - for Jason's apparent bias) which is fair enough. I don't know enough about skating to be able to analyse every move in the time available and assess skating skill accordingly. I just thought Hayley looked a bit more fluent than Gary did despite the slower speed.In any case, I didn't say it was clearly wrong. Just that I thought they should maybe have been on a par. I did start my post by saying "Possibly not" which, I hope, implies that it wasn't "clearly wrong".
Originally Posted by icedragon:
“Like many real skating judges Nicky gives a lot of extra credit for things done at speed over the ice (because everything is much more difficult at speed). He spoke about exactly why he scored as he did. Hayley's routine was slow over the ice (this is independant of whether the music is fast or slow). Gary's solo skating was executed faster and had more content including a different turn (inside 3). His performance skills aren't up to Hayley's but his actual skating skills are way better.
I was busy wondering what Robin was on to give Hayley's slow and rather unexciting routine, although nicely executed, a 6.0
I don't think he wanted to save Daniella at all - he just wanted to avoid being criticised for saving someone who apparently 'fell' which most people seem to think means an automatic dismissal. By stating that the fall didn't count for part of the routine he was free to save Gary as he wanted to.”
“Like many real skating judges Nicky gives a lot of extra credit for things done at speed over the ice (because everything is much more difficult at speed). He spoke about exactly why he scored as he did. Hayley's routine was slow over the ice (this is independant of whether the music is fast or slow). Gary's solo skating was executed faster and had more content including a different turn (inside 3). His performance skills aren't up to Hayley's but his actual skating skills are way better.
I was busy wondering what Robin was on to give Hayley's slow and rather unexciting routine, although nicely executed, a 6.0
I don't think he wanted to save Daniella at all - he just wanted to avoid being criticised for saving someone who apparently 'fell' which most people seem to think means an automatic dismissal. By stating that the fall didn't count for part of the routine he was free to save Gary as he wanted to.”
Not sure any of those reasons applied. Hayley did what she was told to at a speed T and D told her to do it at that fitted the music and the story and its emotional mood - whizzing around faster would have looked plain wrong. Gary did very little apart from move aimlessly from A to B making unconvincing arm movements and when he tried for a spin and skating on one leg he did it less well and for less long than Hayley did. Moving around aimlessly because you can't act or dance or do tricks isn't the point of the exercise.
Originally Posted by Saturn:
“Nicky thinks Gary was better than Hayley. Ridiculous.”
“Nicky thinks Gary was better than Hayley. Ridiculous.”
I totally agree! Just because Gary skates faster he thinks that hes better than her! Totally ridiculus! Hayley skates at a decent speed, dances better and also presents herself better!
Although I do like Gary I think that Nicky's marking is very weird at times!
I was surprised that Kieron was not in the skate off with Daniella tonight as well!
Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“Not sure any of those reasons applied. Hayley did what she was told to at a speed T and D told her to do it at that fitted the music and the story and its emotional mood - whizzing around faster would have looked plain wrong. Gary did very little apart from move aimlessly from A to B making unconvincing arm movements and when he tried for a spin and skating on one leg he did it less well and for less long than Hayley did. Moving around aimlessly because you can't act or dance or do tricks isn't the point of the exercise.”
“Not sure any of those reasons applied. Hayley did what she was told to at a speed T and D told her to do it at that fitted the music and the story and its emotional mood - whizzing around faster would have looked plain wrong. Gary did very little apart from move aimlessly from A to B making unconvincing arm movements and when he tried for a spin and skating on one leg he did it less well and for less long than Hayley did. Moving around aimlessly because you can't act or dance or do tricks isn't the point of the exercise.”
Spot on! Hayley done exactly what she was told to do by T and D and this is why she was given a 6 by the top judge Cousins!
Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“Not sure any of those reasons applied. Hayley did what she was told to at a speed T and D told her to do it at that fitted the music and the story and its emotional mood - whizzing around faster would have looked plain wrong. Gary did very little apart from move aimlessly from A to B making unconvincing arm movements and when he tried for a spin and skating on one leg he did it less well and for less long than Hayley did. Moving around aimlessly because you can't act or dance or do tricks isn't the point of the exercise.”
“Not sure any of those reasons applied. Hayley did what she was told to at a speed T and D told her to do it at that fitted the music and the story and its emotional mood - whizzing around faster would have looked plain wrong. Gary did very little apart from move aimlessly from A to B making unconvincing arm movements and when he tried for a spin and skating on one leg he did it less well and for less long than Hayley did. Moving around aimlessly because you can't act or dance or do tricks isn't the point of the exercise.”
I'm not sure that's what the judges mean when they ask for greater speed on the ice.
You can still push off and travel across the ice at a higher velocity even if the music itself is slow. It's all about the effect you create, and you can create more of an effect when you're moving with greater speed. You see it all the time in pro skating - figure skaters often use a slow track but they still move across the ice with power, it's just power and speed with softness and finesse to match the music.
Originally Posted by Veri:
“The "performance judges" (Jason and Emma) mark primarily on performance, so why shouldn't one of the "skating judges" mark primarily on skating?”
“The "performance judges" (Jason and Emma) mark primarily on performance, so why shouldn't one of the "skating judges" mark primarily on skating?
”
But that's the thing. He doesn't seem to mark primarily and more importantly, consistently on skating. His marks are all over the place.
I agree that they should place more emphasis on one aspect but I don't think that they should mark chiefly on one aspect. Jason and Emma mark primarily on performance, Nicky on skating, Robin and Karen on both. In particular, Jason and Nicky place too much emphasis on their respective aspect. It's fine to place more emphasis on one aspect as you said but those two sometimes ignore the other aspect which is wrong. I think they (Jason and especially, Nicky) should adjust (slightly) the weighting that they give towards skating/performance.
If someone skates well but performs terribly, Nicky will sometimes give them a ridiculously high mark which IMO is bad judgement. Any routine which receives 5.5 should have almost flawless skating AND the performance should also be very good. Both should be flawless for a 6.0. I didn't think Gary's skating and especially his performance warranted such a high mark. I thought Hayley skated better than Gary, especially in the solo.
I don't mind if Nicky gives a 4.0 when the other judges give a 3.0/3.5, or a 4.5 when they give a 3.5/4.0 if the skating is good but when it gets closer to the maximum score, then the judging should be fairer in relation to the other aspect. The other aspect (performance in Nicky's case) should become more important then. Not more important than the primary aspect, just more important than it previously was. If it doesn't then a routine could receive a 6.0 based on brilliant skating but not a brilliant performance which is moronic. Emma (and sometimes Jason) are much fairer in this regard than Nicky. And even when the skating is good/bad, Nicky's marks often don't reflect that. And I still think that he's an attention-seeker and this plays a role in his marking.
Nicky's marking is sometimes a bit odd but when he is asked for his opinions he actually talks a lot of sense most of the time. Perhaps if Holly asked the skaters on the panel more for their views & didn't go to Jason & Emma so much, he might be a bit less attention seeking and mark more sensibly.
Originally Posted by Tiger Rose:
“Nicky's marking is sometimes a bit odd but when he is asked for his opinions he actually talks a lot of sense most of the time. Perhaps if Holly asked the skaters on the panel more for their views & didn't go to Jason & Emma so much, he might be a bit less attention seeking and mark more sensibly.”
“Nicky's marking is sometimes a bit odd but when he is asked for his opinions he actually talks a lot of sense most of the time. Perhaps if Holly asked the skaters on the panel more for their views & didn't go to Jason & Emma so much, he might be a bit less attention seeking and mark more sensibly.”
Exactly. That's why I fail to understand his marking. Sometimes he gives a crap mark but you would think he gave a very high mark based on his appraisal. There's just no link or consistency between the two.
Originally Posted by -Sid-:
“I'm not sure that's what the judges mean when they ask for greater speed on the ice.
You can still push off and travel across the ice at a higher velocity even if the music itself is slow. It's all about the effect you create, and you can create more of an effect when you're moving with greater speed. You see it all the time in pro skating - figure skaters often use a slow track but they still move across the ice with power, it's just power and speed with softness and finesse to match the music.”
“I'm not sure that's what the judges mean when they ask for greater speed on the ice.
You can still push off and travel across the ice at a higher velocity even if the music itself is slow. It's all about the effect you create, and you can create more of an effect when you're moving with greater speed. You see it all the time in pro skating - figure skaters often use a slow track but they still move across the ice with power, it's just power and speed with softness and finesse to match the music.”
Not sure softness and power go together? Softness went with the music last night? Not sure either that power can be a quality that gets you marks without some fair standard to weigh it against - you would end up marking males more than females just on leg muscle mass if you didn't make some allowances. Big skaters v puny ones woudl eb an issue too. If you just look at speed over the ice, if a Suzanne or a Clare is the level of capability required for a girl to get 5.5 or 6 you probably should mark Hayley against that standard not Chris or Ray and if you mark Gary against Ray or Chris or Kyran he's further off their 6 than Hayley is off Suzanne's 6. On top of that I think you have to look at what else the skates are doing and Hayley is doing better on the tricks like spins or skating on one leg not to mention the dance steps .
Originally Posted by Saturn:
“Nicky thinks Gary was better than Hayley. Ridiculous.”
“Nicky thinks Gary was better than Hayley. Ridiculous.”
More to the point what was he on giving Hayley such a low score the idiot. He doesnt like her Danielle is his pet but she is gone now because she had to SKATE and she cant do that. The routine last week was crap she mainly sat on a chair.
Hayley can DANCE on ice what was he on about the bloke needs sacking.
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