I didn't have my stopwatch out but i actually thought Daniellas was the shortest as it seeemd Matthew joined her almost straight away.
I prefer to see fast skating though so i preferred watching Kieron more than Hayley, as he whizzed around but she was quite slow.

I didn't see him nearly fall at all. He did a jump on his way out to the start point. He did some complex footwork - yes an Ina Bauer is on two feet but it's not an easy move at all - and he is the only one I've seen this series do an inside 3 turn which he did in that routine (it's harder than an outside 3 turn which the others did.) He did some nicely synchronised mohawk (barrel roll) turns out of hold and a spiral, and a spin in the routine itself. And all of it at a much faster speed than the girls. More speed = more difficult.

What did you see anyone else do that was better than that?

Can I just ask you a technical question, please? (well I'm doing it anyway). Do you think some of the really difficult footwork (skatework) can look easy to the untrained eye? So the better the skater, the less it's noticable how difficult it is (if you get what I'm trying to ask.

Course you can, as long as you don't start the complainers off about daring to comment if one knows anything about skating

Yes I do think exactly that. When a good skater does something involving turns and edges and does it smoothly it does look easy and it can be very deceptive. It always amused me that one of the bits of T & D's routines where they basically acted out a train both on two feet, used to get huge cheers from the audience because it did look good and went great with the music but was probably the simplest bit in their routine.

There's a lot of stuff on two feet that is difficult, Ina Bauers and spreadeagles for example but people see two feet and think 'easy'.

A change of edge as in a slalom doesn't look like much but it's very difficult and there's a whole lot of stuff that make the same element more difficult such as holding an edge after a turn rather than having to put a foot down.

If you look at Hayley's routine from this week where she does some skating on her own with Dan behind - she does sort of consecutive outside 3 turns but she turns and goes directly to two feet which makes it much easier and she does not have to worry about Dan as he synchronises with her.

Compare Gary's mohawk turns (barrel rolls) where he has to be synchronised with Maria as they lightly join hands after each turn and those are done at speed but with less fanfare so don't look difficult. I think Hayley did do an inside 3 in that routine but if you look at Gary's first inside 3 three, he turns and holds that back inside edge because he is good enough he doesn't need to put that other foot down quickly.

If you compare the spins - she stops and centres herself and then spins on the spot. He comes up out of the spiral and straight into swinging his leg around to initiate the spin so it flows as part of the routine which again is more difficult but doesn't look it.

Gary was the first to do rotational lifts which some people haven't even noticed are different from and harder than a straight line lift. When he has Maria by the hand and she flips round he is in a spreadeagle position.

So yes is the answer to the question!

icedragon - thank you so much for that.

Thank you. It must have taken you some time and I really appreciate it. I will have to have look, I don't quite understand what 3 turns look like, but I'll have a go.

I thought that before by the way, I mean that seemingly easy routines are more difficult. It makes me want to start skating (although I'm 36).

But gary iz crap.

That's the age I started and I had no background in anything useful like dance or gymnastics or rollerblading. It's a lot of fun and there are adult competitions including British championships. It's always nice to win medals!

You should be able to pick out a 3 turn as you see the weight go on to one foot and then they have turned to backwards!

If you look at Gary's solo he does a forward inside 3 near the beginning on the word 'everything' and holds the back outside edge nicely afterwards but it all flows in the routine so barely noticeable.

Hayley does one just after the spiral. She holds a left forward inside edge and then she does a quick right inside 3 but puts the free foot down quite quickly afterwards.

Both are right inside 3's meaning they start on the right forward inside edge and turn to a right back outside. The edge makes the skater travel on a curve to the left.

A left forward outside 3 would also make the skater curve to the left but the turn is from forward outside edge to back inside edge

Just have to add that in some cases routines that look easy are easy, like anything that Colleen did!

You just made me giggle there!

And thanks to icedragon, that is really interesting. I suppose I assumed that the best skaters were probably doing harder footwork, but I don't really trust my skating knowledge enough to be sure of what I thought I was seeing.
If you've time, I'd be really interested to know how Kieron's skating looks in comparison to Hayley, I presume he isn't doing as difficult moves as Gary given Robin's comments. What he does looks interesting to me, therefore I'm enjoying it, but I suppose I don't really know how difficult what he's doing is.

Thanks that will help me pick it out. So based on this Nicky's score would have been right (Gary higher than Hayley).

I think I will definitely try it. There is a ice rink in the neighbourhood (I was surprised how many there are in Scotland). If it is anything like inline skating, it will help me to get a good bum and nice legs. And it does look like a lot of fun.

Edit: Just realised we are all using you as our encyclopaedia now. Thank you again.

Hmm - I'd have to go and take a much closer look on that one. Because he doesn't have the same presentation skills as Hayley, his flaws are much more exposed. What he does have is 'attack' which means he goes for it (like the jumps) but it isn't always pretty!

I had a feeling he'd done some alternating 3's maybe in punk week but don't have that one handy to check. He is still bit the gangly puppy but for starting as a non-skater, non-dancer he has achieved a lot. It's not as smooth as the skating Gary can produce but it always seems to be a lot of fun!

That's OK you may have noticed I love talking about skating! I can't guarantee to always be right but I have 10 years of competitive skating experience in free and dance and quite a few medals to show for it!

It does do wonders for the glutes!

Nicky tends to give a lot of extra credit to speed over the ice - he always seems to go on about it and together with the flow from one element to the next that Gary gets in his routines it seems to outweigh the superior presentation of Hayley's routines for Nicky.

If you ever do take it up and compete you soon realise that skating judges rarely agree amongst themselves and it's not that uncommon to get hugely varying scores for the same routine because they all seem to have their own pet peeve they look out for, like speed over the ice or cleanliness of edges or neatness of steps or whatever.

Interesting. Do you think his lower marks may be because he is trying difficult things, but not always quite achieving them, compared to some of the others who play it safer?
I'm not really talking about compared to Gary or Hayley here, but he does seem to have had fairly low marks throughout and I can't quite see why, so I'm trying to understand what the judges are seeing.

Oooh can I ask your opinion on something icedragon (). I was just wondering about Kieron's solo spot last night. He had a bit where he was hunched over and skating low to the ice, and afterwards Jason criticised it for looking ungainly. I figured T&D put that in because skating down like that is hard to do? Not necessarily very hard, but showing off a bit of skill. I did think it looked odd choreographically, and because Jason isn't a skating judge he seemed to see no point in it.

I can can imagine, I know it's a stupid comparison, but marking essays is very similar. Some people are really hot on spelling, others prefer thoughtful content, and a third group may look for the correct referencing. Marks can vary a lot according to individual people's preferences.

I'll take it up, and I'll keep people informed of my progress. I put on a stone during the last year, and although I'm a runner and training again, I need something else to keep fit. I think due to the ballance issue, iceskating seems to give you an allover workout (I assume you need a good core to skate?).

Well as I've said above judges tend to see very different things even from each other so it's hard to tell. At a guess I think he suffers from simply not looking so smooth and not finishing his lines (nice hands. pointed toes, good extensions). His skating is not as smooth as Gary's but he seems to have quite a lot of moves. I liked his step sequence within last weeks routine where he did outside 3, cross in fronts, mohawk turn, 3 turn. More interesting than Hayley's simple repetition of outside 3 to two foot and repeat.

He certainly seems to be getting there with the skating skills but needs to polish those and the performance, although for me the enthusiasm and attack make up for any lack there.

He doesn't shy away from the difficult stuff and does it all with a fair pace too. I didn't like the 'almost hydroglides' as they looked ugly (have to agree with Jason on that one) and he didn't manage them as well as Donal did but he's always willing to give it a go!

I didn't see your question but seem to have answered it above! I dont' think they did him any favours choreographically by putting those in as they were ugly but they aren't particularly easy so I guess that is why but Donal did them better as he could get his free leg off the ground so it looked much better.

We'll look out for your progress reports! Having a good core definitely helps as everything seems to come down to having a strong core and bending the knees - no, really bending them and then bending them some more. And when you think they are bent enough you realise they are only about half as bent as they need to be.

That made me giggle; a lot of bending going on. Sorry I promise it will be the last question (although these discussions are so much more enjoyable than some of the others I have on here), is there a problem if you have weak knees. Due to some faults with my feet, my left knee can become quite painful during long distance running (although I'm trying to retrain myself). Is there a lot of stress on the knees (especially when you are almost an OAP like me).

Well there can be but you'll find most adults who take it up as adults are struggling with some sort of weakness/injury. I have bad knees ( had a bad skiing accident when younger but never had the surgery that was initially recommended). If anything I think it has in the end helped to strengthen the knees or at least the muscles around them although you need to remember to stretch after, or all the muscles get terribly tight like mine

I also have ankle injuries but know people who have broken their ankles and go back to skating (I warn you now it is very addictive!) and i suffer from a bad back (chiropractic treatment worked wonders on that).

For me probably the thing that makes my knee ache most is a sit spin so I dont practice them as often as I should. (and that's my good knee)

Once you get addicted you learn to skate through the pain

However don't take it up if you like wearing sandals and bare legs in the summer - people will wonder what on earth you have done to your deformed, discoloured and blistered ankles!

Well the positive aspect is that I won't have to wax my legs anymore, I just keep the hairs hidden away with all the bruises.

Ah hydroglides that's the word I was after... I'd forgotten Donal did them too, really need to watch some of his routines again. Thanks for the reply.

Thanks for that icedragon really interesting as I know very little about skating. I already loved Gary's routine but that makes me appreciate it more.