Totally agree with everything said above.

Captain Jack Harkness: "You people and your quaint little categories"

You see....even Cpt Jack is able to sum up and get to the point than i ever could!!!!!

Very well said! Nothing to add. You've said it all. Brilliant post.

Being either straight or gay is completely releavnt to love and sex. The choice you make determines our entire lives.

Secondly RTD introduced homosexuality into the Dr Who universe when it didnt exist there before. He did it deliberately. Maybe the 'agenda' word is unhelphul but no-one can argue with the fact that he introduced homosexulaity into a programme what doesn't need it.

It is right for me to judge (you can do as you wish)

If they have a problem with the way I was born then they are stupid morons and anyone else who listens to them, fools.

They can never ever be right, so where you get your last line from, I don't know.

Sorry but your post just highlights the utter ignorance surrounding sexuality.

Sexuality can never be wrong it is what you are. It's not something that can be agreed or disagreed with.

It's only religious nutters who get told that it's wrong and so follow like sheep so are unable to say explain why other than a work of fiction told then it was.

And you never explained why anyone should be sensitive to stupid ignorant bigots?

I wonder if you have a sensible reply or just going to play the victim?

roll your eyes all the bl**dy you want.....doesn't change the fact that we humans put labels on ourselfs....we are the ones who define gender/race/sexuality/illness/disability....we are the ones to come up with the words gay or straight....we are the ones who try to determine what that means by putting it into a little dictionary......but yet feelings are beyond labels, emotions are beyond labels. If there are ten people in the room all feeling happy.....not even one of them will be feeling happy in the same way, or showing it in the same way. Same goes for falling in love.....maybe you have some god given right that factual and scientifically tests out what love is exactly, or what sexual attraction is exactly.....but for us mere mortals, things are never that simple. A gay person may that he fancies men only, but does that mean he loves every man? A straight person who feels sexually satified by the opposite sex, can sometimes find themselves feeling attarcted to the same sex, even if they never deal with those feelings. Nothing is simple as Black and white. Labels are by people, for people, so people like yourself can find it easier to jugde others and their feelings.



If he introduced anything, he introduced feelings and emotion to come to the surface of characters, and not hide away....and agian, as pointed....feelings can not be boxed up, so if there were going to be staright characters.....having "gay characters" is not a stretch of imagination.


I bet you didn't have a problem with the Cat and the Human in Gridlock as much as you had a problem with the two older ladies.....so much for RTD's gay agenda...in that episode, you get the cat and the human kissing each other, a nudist male and female couple, and the kidnappers of Martha kissing each others faces off....but with the two old ladies, all you get is them holding hands, singing. So much gayness introduced in that story alone....would someone please think of the children!!!!!

This rather exemplifies the hypocrisy of asking for tolerance.

People condemn but dont like being condemned back. Some call other people bigots but dont like it when they are labelled.

If we believe what we hear then there are prpbably more homophobic and homo-sceptical people in this country than there are homosexuals. Do we just instantly ignore and override the views of millions of people?

Are they all bigots?

Well if people didn't challenge the views of the millions....we would all be here still thinking the world was flat!!!

I am totally with you there. Why people in the world wake up always having thoughts on a sex same couple doing stuff and being sickened really is beyond me? Why people are so concerned if a gay man happens to act femine or a woman has short hair and acts rather masucline? I get bored, fed up and angry by it all. I had the unfortunate pleasure of being around these people throughout middle/upper school.

Agreed.

But in that case flat earth is a scientific falsehood. It was challenged with science and evidence.

The debate about homosexulaity is one of morality and personal conviction.

remember there is no moral absolute - morals are dictated by the majority - they go in and out of fashions over the years and aeons.

But before it was challenged "sceintifically"...it was a matter of belief and morality....the idea/myth that God created it flat and and things like hell were at the edge of the world!

There is nothing to prove one way or the other that the morals of one major group is true which then subjegates a minority. For centuries Women have been labelled as what is morally right or wrong for them.....there was no sceintifc test carried out which gave women a lot of thier rights....it was them fighting for their own corner, it was men having to finally accept that their views were outdated. As you say morals are not absolute, they go in and out of fashion, but that doesn't mean that while there is a so called large majority who feels one way should be the only ones that should be listend to.....if that was the case, then women wouldn't have won any rights either. RTD hasn't got an agenda, he puts in gay characters and straight characters, because it is an everyday thing for him, just like a famle writer is able to write very strong women, with no intention of promoting feminism, but the acceptance of such work by a lot of us, shows that times are changing, and if the the majority have a problem, then that is their problem, doesn't make them right though!

Actually the flat-earth cosmology hasn't been believed in the western world since the ancient Greeks disproved it around 300 BC, so the God/hell thing wouldn't have been part of that.

Off topic but I've kept it brief.

I actually like "Torchwood" to have new people in it as the old lot annoyed me , so prentious and self indulgent yes I am mean but looking back it was spoilt by crap acting and dire ott scences with Jack and Ianto though I was touched by Ianto's demise in the last series , Gwen was too frumpy and Rhys was too whiny , tosh was ok and Owen too , Susan and the hand was kool , sometimes it was good writing but sometimes eeek
!!!
Jack could be ott but he could be real
a!

True....but the point still stands....it's not like when they did believe the Earth was flat it was because they had sceintific evidence for that, they did so because of their stagnated views. And sceience only progresses because someone decides to to challenge the major view. Someone has to start!!!

*waves a white flag*

I come in peace.

Jack is omnisexual. I'm not disputing that. But he does seem to have a preference for men.

As far as I'm aware he's only ever kissed 4 women, and only one of those was a proper snog.

Not commenting on any kind of gay agenda, or homosexuality. Just voicing my opinion.

PLEASE DON'T HURT ME!

In one word, yes. A bigoted opinion is as out of place in todays society as racism. If someone expressed their dislike at sitting on the same bus as a black/white person because it is contrary to their skin colour or opinions, then that person is committing a crime for discrimination. What people think and what people say are two totally different things. Every human being on earth possesses some kind of prejudice but it is the way their prejudices are contained which makes a person the person they are.

Continiuing to argue that a person has a right to express their dislike for same sex relationship without having an actual reason for doing so, is indeed bigoted. A christian who expresses their "disgust" for gay people is just as bad as a fundamental muslim expressing their dislike for westerners. The bible, penned between two and ten thousand years ago was written in a world very different to todays world and was therefore relevant to that society.

If Jesus was alive today he would indeed be accepting of all as he embraced the world around him based on ideals that he knew. The bible would be the same principled message but the message of love and tolerance to all would indeed be extended to gay people, bisexual people and everyone else society wrongly brands as different.

Meh, don't find torchwood that entertaining. Was very excited when it started, but Captain Jack was annoying, Gwen a selfish whinger and the plots were awful in the first series. Watched part of the second series, and although it was better it was still not that good.

He has also been married (we've seen the photo), and had a relationship with another Torchwood employee that resulted in the birth of his daughter Alice.

As JB puts it: "Captain Jack is not gay, he’s omnisexual and he will sleep with anything with a zip code".

IMO it is.

Leaving aside the sexuality debate the other salient fact I mentioned is that Torchwood is set in Cardiff.

In US TV terms it would equate to Anthony Zuiker foisting CSI: Little Rock on the viewing public.

Agreed.

So you missed the best, Series 3?

And in my opinion, it is far from a vanity project, it doesn't really tick the boxes to make it so.


Well, people are only too quick to complain when dramas are London-centric (both is story and production). As for Cardiff - why not (apart from any thoughts bordering on snobbishness).

Or should drams only be set in the usual places:

London
Liverpool
Manchester
Glasgow
Leeds

That's true, but to be fair, RTD also "introduced" mobile phones, laptops any many other things that are ABSOLUTELY NORMAL in the 21st century.

In the years Doctor Who was off the air, there were lots of ground-breaking dramas that introduced homosexual stories to the mainstream.

I would have been a bit surprised if anyone brought back Doctor Who in 2005 and never had any gay characters. (You can bet someone would have complained )

This is a fantastic post.