Only 2 episodes in and some people are already having a go at Moffat.

In the main review thread I have seen many comments such as:

* Moffat is not a good showrunner
* 'The Beast Below' is the worst ever nu_Who story
* The plots are too confusing
* Too many plot-holes
* The moral dilemmas are unnecessary

etc.

Now quite a few of these sorts of comments are, unsurprisingly, coming from the more outspoken RTD followers but not all are. Some general, casual fans seem to be raising the issue.

FWIW I have thoroughly enjoyed the first 2 epsisodes and think Moffat is turning out good scripts.

Smith is good and Gillan is superb - Moffat should be congratulated purely for picking two superb leads for this series.

However, the question remains: Has the backlash begun?

Well the problem is that you need to have a better attention span than a goldfish to see that there aren't really many plot holes or confusing parts. I'm getting fed up with people who just didn't pay attention and go on a rant about the so called plotholes, Gallefrey Base forum is a total chaos of repetition

From the past two episodes, I fail to see how anyone can find it confusing. I have also not seen many plotholes either

How are moral dilemmas "un-necessary". Technically the whole show is un-necessary. What do people want? The same stuff over and over and over?

I wouldn't call it a backlash, people are simply voicing their opinion of what they've seen so far.

There's a long way to go in this series and opinions can change, but personally speaking I found last night's episode disappointing after a very decent opener last week.

Being a show runner is vastly different to writing the odd episode here and there, and I think people's expectations of SM are very high based on what he's written so far for Dr Who, but IMO these first two episodes are way below the standard of his previous efforts.

I'm certainly not sold yet on Amy Pond, can't quite put my finger on it but there's something not gelling with me, but again there's 11 more episodes to go and she may well grow on me.

Matt has made a good start IMO but still needs to improve, which I'm sure he will.

I don't see how people could find any of the first 2 stories confusing.

How can people find the 'Eleventh Hour' confusing I remember reading the discussion thread and people were saying i'm confused when the episode finished. How?

I also don't recall any plot holes. Yes there were the odd things that weren't explained fully like who the smilers were and there purpose but definately don't recall any plot holes

IMO the plots of the episodes aren't brilliant but the actual writing itself is good.

Like an OP said being a showrunner is not as easy as writing the odd show every now and again as you can't put as much work in to it. I'm sure however the weeping angel 2 parter will be very good as the plot can be much more detailed and drawn out and of course it has the Weeping Angels

In my view it was a good episode,not brilliant,but good.You would think peeps would be happy to watch a quality programme with so far good stories and good characters.Im a Who fan but also like a variety of programmes but to be honest Dr Who is one of the few TV Shows that i always make time for as the rest of TV these days is just tripe.My son and myself are enjoying the series and my son who is only 9(going on 40!!) had his doubts that without Tennant it wouldnt be the same but he is loving Matt and the rest..looking forward to next Saturday

while i agree there is some nitpicking going on, it's the very same thing the OP likes to do in relation to RTD episodes so I really find it hard to sympathise with the OP's point of view here. It's no good complaining about people nitpicking SM episodes when you have spent so much time doing the same and more to RTD's episodes. Very hypocritical.

People use the term plot hole for everything now ¬¬ If it's not explained to you in every single detail, then it's a plothole. If it is, and they're not paying attention (such as with people and this episode), then it's a plothole

I've just come to the conclusion that most Doctor Who fans are crazy.

And fickle! And they read WAAAAAAYYYYYYY too much into story lines. I just sit back and enjoy. Some here treat it like a bloody English lit exam and digest every last bloody detail

AGREED!!

I can't anser that question as I have no idea how big soemthing has to be before it qualifies as being an "backlash" rather than just a percentage of people that complain a lot.

I can't say that I've noticed any real change in the show so far. If I didn't know that RTD had gone I would have assumed he was still doing the show.


He has a proven track record of being a good one. You could argue that he isn't suited to this series, which I disagree with, but to generalise and say he isn't a good showrunner is riduclous.


A statement based on a person's own preferences and opinion.
Personally I thought the one with Agatha Chrsiste was less interesting than this one.


I didn't find them confusing at all. If they are confusing is it that you (the viewer) finds them confusing or is it that they are too complex and need to be dumbed down?


Ahhh that old chestnut. Everything has plot holes if you start to look for them and start using logical thinking.
You give me an RTD story and I'll find you plot holes.


These help to make the story interesting and make you think about the morals involved. Life isn't black and white and simplistic.
In The Water of Mars you had the morality of what The Doctor does when he becomes part of people's lives. If it wasn't for him Adelaide wouldn't have put shot herself.
That is a moral question and RTD wrote it.
I would rather have moral dilemmas than yet another series of one fancies or falls in love with the other *yawn* :sleep:

Moffatt was always going to get ripped into because he wasn't RTD. The final decision will come rests with the viewers. If the ratings plummet then he got it wrong. If they stay more or less the same he is getting it right.

As an older fan I remember going through this with JNT. He is killing the show, his stories are shit etc. Did they stop watching as the show wasn't for them and wasn't what they wanted it to be? Nope! They watched it and then bitched and complained a lot making demands to themselves and other fans.
That shows they are of low intelligence. I don't like Jeremey Kyle so I don't watch it. I don't like rap music so I don't buy the CDs or listen to it.
If at the end of this series I think I don't like the series with Matt or I dosn't like Moffatt's style I won't watch the next series.
If people don't like it then stop watching it. It isn't compulsary, stop being such martyrs for god sake.

How can people say "The Beast Below" was the worst new-who story? I can think of a LOT worse.

Some people expect every single episode to be written to perfection and to please everybody when that has never happened and will never, happen. We should be lucky we have Doctor Who on TV these days, because there is crap all else on TV on Saturdays!

Not strictly true, BBC4 show the Swedish version of Wallander on Saturday nights

I agree with much of what you say.

However I dont think the best arbiter of whether Moffat is successful or not should simply be the ratings.

Great quality and great ratings do not always go hand in hand.

Well there is the odd decent thing to watch, but the vast majority of stuff on the main channels is crapola

A lot of the more outspoken RTD followers have roughly divided into 2 distinct camps.

1) Those that think the show is identical to that of RTD and who are bemused that some people think Moffat has improved it.

and

2) Those that now find the programme shallow and of poorer characterisation. It has taken a retrograde step under Moffat.

Somwhat mutually exclusive positions, wouldnt you say!

And the third sort of RTD fan who hasn't criticised the first two Moff episodes or compared them to RTD. Some of us are capable of taking things on their own merit and judging them individually.

I was referring to the small group of extremely outspoken RTD followers not his general fans.

I agree with what you say also.

so were you referring to me then? I don't fit in to either of those category's either.

Pretty much summed it up well.

It is extremely hypocritical of Poppycod, under his/her current name and the ones used before to take every opportunity to slate the last 4 series time and time again. If anyone dare mention they might like an episode, especially one written by RTD, poppycod is usually the first in line to yet again say how awful it all was/is.

Yet strangely enough after two new episodes the shoe is on the other foot and he/she doesn't like it, doesn't like people criticising the new episodes. Says it all really doesn't it.


I've been nitpicking The Beast Below myself purely to show just how hypocritical some have been over the last few years. Just how easy it it to pick apart something for the sake of it, something many here have had to put up with. I actually have enjoyed the first two episodes and apart from the irrelevance of the smilers I do not have any problems with the casting or writing, beyond anything that usually appears in Doctor Who, it always has had plot holes if you want to look for them, it the nature of the beast.


Anyway time to put Poppycod on ignore, just as I did with dervish.

Really? I always thought it was John Nathan-Turner that was crazy but as the years have progressed I'm pretty sure it is the fans

Loved 'The Beast Below' but there was always going to be some kind of backlash. For me the hour long specials of last year were appalling and this series has been a return to form

It doesn't feel like a backlash to me. It feels like people are a little let down by the second episode that's all. Maybe it's because the opening episode was so fantastic.

Exactly this. Maybe some people overreact but the majority of criticism is just "I didn't really like this episode" and their reasons for that

Moffat is not a good showrunner - Yet to be shown although I disagree with many of his design ideas.
The Beast Below' is the worst ever nu_Who story - Erm no, not even close.
The plots are too confusing - No, The Beat Below is ridiculously too simple.
Too many plot-holes - Yes TBB had to many unanswered questions. Although I didn't notice any in TEH.
The moral dilemmas are unnecessary - I don't think so, not yet anyway.