In four little words, one individual lays down their qualification to speak on the subject, and everyone's opinion must bow down and pay attention.

That's not sarcastic, even if it sounds it. It also applies to me and possibly others, but no-one else (including me) thought to cite it and give credence to our words, and your post is, of course, sound judgement.

I kneel in your presence, Oh Great One... (ok, that's a bit sarcastic!)

What makes you think that you a) need to defend him, b) he would want you to defend him or c) there is an attack in the offing that requires a) or b)

Ego the size of a Star Whale.........

I always found myself disappointed with the direction the show took under RTD (especially his scripts which were awful) but I am loving the show so far under Moff! Based on his track record of previous stories and what I've seen so far, this is going to be a golden age for Nu Who!

I am sad that one or two people just want to attack the OP and not debate the actual issues.

Thanks.
No harm done!


Just to show everyone why I was prompted to make this thread - here is a comment taken from the review thread talking about 'The Beast Below'....




Strong stuff!

The difference is, one of them's doing it rather better...


You disagree? After the number of posters moaning that they were 'confused' by a perfectly simple plot and repeatedly asking questions which were clearly answered on screen?

Not aware of any connection between those two stories, or any plot holes in them...

Good points.

Tony, as a matter of interest do you think it is mainly the staunch RTD followers that are the most critical of the two most recent stories, or is there a general broad sense of discontent?

Why are you so insistent on bringing this back to 'RTD followers'.

The simple fact is a number of posters didn't love last nights episode as much as you clearly did, whether they are RTD fans or not is immaterial.

What is your problem with that?

The point you fail to appreciate is that this is purely subjective. It's opinion not fact. I think we are lucky to have had two talented lead writers overseeing the show, and with a bit of luck SM will carry on the success we have seen in recent years.

So what if some people are being critical of this episode in the episode thread? Thats what it is there for! There is no "backlash". None of the comments I have seen have been of a personal or unpleasant nature to SM (which is more than could be said about some of the homophobic abuse directed at RTD at times).

IMHO the sole intent of this thread was to cause upset where none actually existed.

I suppose in that sense it could be deemed a success.

I am trying to establish if the discontent is originating from a particular group of fandom. No harm in that, is there?

If all the criticism is coming from one, highly vocal group, then we do not need to worry that the general fanbase has any real issues.

Your not trying to establish anything. Your OP and subsequent posts have made a number of sweeping statements. You then carried this in to another thread and made a personal attack on me based on this telling me I am part of "group 1", which is totally untrue.

So are you intimating that this 'discontent' (not that there is any, only valid criticism of last nights episode) is coming from disgruntled RTD fans unhappy that SM has taken over from their hero?

I have not made a personal attack on you. When I made the gag (see the smiley - (not the one from the epsiode - the emoticon!)) I was making poking fun at my own thread, not you.

I think you have been very even-handed and consistent in your praise for the latest 2 epsiodes and I do not consider you at all to be unreasonable or anti-SM.

You mean Dervish, promoting their opinion as the de facto "norm" that they assume every other "proper" fan shares while assuming everyone who disagrees is some kind of non-fan pretending....surely not?

I would like the opportunity to like or not like an episode without being put into a certain box that suits peoples agendas, thank you very much.

I loved the first episode, the second one didn't work as well for me. What does that make me, an RTD apologist or a acolyte of Moffat?

C'monnnn, the message of this show is to think independently, not be brainwashed to thinking what everyone else does because it is popular!

Stop with the RTD vs Moffat wars and just enjoy the damn show!

No, that's what I am trying to see. Is there a pattern?

Is that, however, your take on it?

Right so it's only the 'anti-SM' posters that get grouped by you?

By anti-SM I'm assuming you're including anyone who has criticised any aspect of the first two episodes of this series, or is it anyone who hasn't been consistent in their praise?

Great advice.

And I am really enjoying the show, btw.

Your comments are noted but irrelevant to this thread given it's title...

I don't have a take on it, I'm simply trying to see where you're coming from on this (and failing badly).....

Ok, sorry. I shall try to be more clear.

I have had a couple of reads thru the long review thread. Over 40 pages - so it takes some reading.

I tried to correlate the very critical posts to see if there was a general feeling of discontent about the direction of Dr Who.

It 'appears' that there is some friction between the strong, vocal group of staunch RTD followers and those who are now lavishly heaping praise on Moffat and his tenure.

I discerned two groups (which I alluded to in an earlier post) of strong critics.

I am just trying to figure out if the strong criticism is coming from just a small sub-section of fandom - ie the RTD followers who wish he was still in charge.

Is there some resentment that Moffat is now in charge?

Could there be some jealousy that the new guy is getting all the plaudits?

Could there be ulterior motives in some of the criticisms?


I am not trying to upset the applecart here, but I am just raising the questions.

Get a grip. You keep trying to find some 'pattern' when anyone disagrees with your lofty opinion. Any little niggly criticism of the last 2 eps are held in contempt or deemed to be from a faction of RTD fans. A bit delusion if you ask me or insecure.

I've been a DW fan from 72, I can't understand the need to heap praise on one writer at the expense of another.
There have been loads of writers on DW so why the need to hype Moffat all the time.

No, poppycock, what you are doing for reasons presumably based in your own mind is create friction where none exists and refusing to allow others the right to like or dislike an episode which is written by your self-proclaimed deity.

Along the way you have used bigotry and "isms" to denegrate others and have achieved virtually nothing of substance.

Please stop with the personal stuff.

Bigotry? -isms?

Everyone has the right to their own opinions. I myself have been critical of a few episodes in the past.

I respect the right for all people to hold and share their own personal views, of course.

So why are you spending time trying to find some hidden agenda behind what are valid and personal opinions of the episode, albeit critical ones?

Your entire posting ethos is comprised of slagging off RTD, slagging off those that disagree with you as "fans of RTD" and as far as bigotry and "isms" go - I really do believe you are confused because I don't believe you understand just how your off-the-cuff comments read in a wider context...

...if everyone is entitled to their own opinions - what drove you to start this thread because surely, if people have issues with SM episodes, that is just their opinion and no kind of backlash at all.