I'm quite a casual fan, and never really think about the show beyond actually watching it. I was glad to have it back last week for something to watch on a Saturday night before I go out.

But the episode on the other day... I don't know, I just found it boring I guess. Nothing much actually happened, there weren't even really any bad guys or threats of 'impending doom'. Some of the dialogue was ok, bits of it were funny, but the plot just wasn't there for me and, even though it IS a sci-fi show, it seemed just a bit too ridiculous.

Sometimes I'll watch repeats if there's nothing else on, but I think I might just avoid this one. Sorry to all people that were involved, but it's just my opinion.

First episode was quite good though. I enjoyed that

But so called bad plotting and lack of logic has been also explianed by a number of people about EOT, I know I have done so many times my self. And people out there still don't choose to agree, and that is fair enough, because they don't see it like that themselves, or it isn't a good enough explanation, doesn't make then stupid or unintelligent.....and this still makes you look like you have double standers though. Because how much difference is there in someone saying that they are confused by the BB because of the bad plotting ie the smilers...and whatever you feel about bad plotting and lack of logic in EOT? In the end if it is problem with the viewer that they didn't get TBB rather than Moffet, than surely the problem is with you whenever you feel something wasn't explained well enough or had a "plot hole" in RTD's story. I'm not arguing with the fact that there are or aren't any incosistancies with the Beast Below....I am remarking on your picking and choosing what you want to support your argument. Whether that be having thoughful stories all of a sudden important to Doctor Who, or rating and AI all of a sudden as proof of quality, or the problem all of a sudden being with the viewer rather than the writer if there are any inconsistancies,



Whether in the end TBB has any inconsistancies or not....your arguments are certainly not consistant. But patronising they definitely are.

I agree with you about TEOT (although I wouldn't say the basic ideas were fine, I think RTD should have discarded them as soon as he thought of them), but the same lack of logic applies to TBB. I can't see how you can accept the first but not the second. People may have *tried* to explain the *actual* inconsistencies a dozen times over but I'm afraid they have done an equally poor job as the original writer.

No. Because many of RTD's stories were riddled with plot holes which no amount of theorising made sense of, and I'm not the only one who noticed. So far, I haven't seen that in any of Moffat's stuff.
But there weren't any. If there had been, yes, that would be the writer's fault. But it isn't the writer's problem if a chunk of the audience can't understyand something that was perfectly logical and clearly explained in the script.
'Patronising'? Someone has basically just accused me of lying when I said I understood this story because he apparently didn't and can't understand how anyone else could. On the whole, I think my reply was remarkably unpatronising in the circumstances.

What exactly id you find to be inconsistent, point by point? Let's try this again.

What prevents you from simply allowing another person to hold a contrary view to your own? Just be happy in your own belief and quit trying to impress it on others.

You see your doing it again...your turning your opinins into fact! As long as you saw Plot holes then there some, but if you didn't then it was all logical and the writer isn't at fault! And the fact that majority of people loved the likes of EOT and didn't find it illogical and badly plotted, myself included, doesn't count unless the majority agree with you and whether something is badly plotted or not. Seriously read what you have just written...and you'll see the whole lot of inconsistancy


I don't want to accuse you of lying, but it is hard to completely ignore that due to your inconsistancies...and yes you have been constantly patronising to those who feel that they were confused by anything in TBB...in fact you also went on about the lack of understanding us mere mortals have of Moff scripts on other threads as well. You felt there wasn't any inconsistancies, you could have given your opion on those "plot holes" and left it at that, but you have made a lot of attacks on the intelligence of those who didn't find TBB that special. And I say this as a person who loved the Beast Below.

I haven't attacked anyone's intelligence. I just think some people weren't really concentrating on what was on the screen. And I will happily provide my take on any alleged inconsistencies in the script.

That in itself is patronising....if I said that same to you about any of the stories you haven't liked in the past I bet you would protested! But further evidence.....




As well as the main topic thread and the thread about the "which is better writer" when all you made the remark about people not understanding Moff's work because it is too intelligent for them, hence why some like RTD's work better.....Do I need to go and search for every quote? I don't think I need to...if you van basically suggest it here...then it really isn't a stretch of imagination that you mentioned it anywhere else.





Then just stick to that...without the patronising stuff.....

Matt Smith and Moffat have turned Dr W on it's arse. I question this action and ask if it has added to the Legacy of RTD. ????

The last EPISODE 10.04.2010 was the most tedious bit of tv . Very Tacky and totally lacking soul and or heart.

As for Duck Pond ..something wrong there 2, her former younger self as played in the first Ep.... was by far was a superb piece of acting and hope she will go a long way in her career. However the Celtic Beauty is very plain as wanted by casting. But, But But.... no... don't rock me boat !!

RTD please do more Touchwood but having killed off the best support actors, Barrowman will struggle

Could you say that again in English please....

i think it to early to say weather he is good or bad. i enjoyed 11th hour but the story the other day was boring i thought, i could not get into and agree that it will be one of the eps in the future that i will miss.

saying that though next weeks story looks intresting...

I agree. Amy won the day in the Beast below. The Doctor only succeeded in losing his temper and nearly lobotomising a sentient creature.

Celtic Beauty?

Jimmy Johston?

All this arguing is just stupid and foolish. You can pick out plot holes in just about any programme or film. I also pointed out in another thread, what is it about todays society where something has to be an instant hit and perfect from first minute, otherwise its condemned for eternity. For goodness sake, watch the whole series first before making serious decisions.

Stargate Universe is a good example of being disappointed with bad plots, storylines and writing.

Anyone who complains about the writing and production of Doctor Who regardless of being RTD of SM, should given the Clockwork Orange conditioning treatment, tied in a chair with eyes wired open watching a film, in this case forced to watch The Happiness Patrol with McCoy as Dr Who and the Kandy "Berttie Basset" Man monster, repeated 24 hours without a break.

People will then realize what rubbish really is and hopefully come to senses that we have been really been given a huge gift and privileged to see Dr Who being brought back to life and given the respect it deserves through production and writing, even though you can not please everyone all the time.

Yes, you're right. We should be grateful it's back and I like to see a sensible selection of viewpoints without the bickering regardless of whether they're right or wrong. People should remember it is just a TV programme, albeit a special one at that, but just a TV programme nevertheless. I also have said on another thread that we need to watch the whole series first and then we can make proper judgements afterwards. Though I found The Beast Below disappointing, I can't judge the series after just two episodes, I just hope it was a one-off blip.

SUPER! someone with some common sense!. Beast Below is not the best story ever, but its still entertain and a reasonably good story, 6/10, but stilll miles better than The Happiness Patrol

Thanks! I think we all agree most stories are better than The Happiness patrol, even the much criticised Love and Monsters(and that's pushing it!) There again, there's always Paradise Towers......

So I am guessing then I am the only one who loves the new theme tune ? I prefer it to RTD era in all honesty, not that I hated it, but I just prefer the catchy beat instead of the Welsh national orchestra in the background.

I also prefer the opening and closing credits too. The worm hole the tardis goes through looks much better, and I love it when you see lightning hitting the tardis and knocking it slighly off course.

Am I the only one here then that think everything about the new Dr Who is better ?


Oh... and before people are quick to have a pop at ep2: The beast below.. Go have a look back at Series 1, ep2: The end of the world with Eccelstone and Billie Piper.

Now that is what you call you a poor follow up episode. After the epside " Rose " I felt let down by episode 2. It was one of the worst in the whole RTD era.

If you look through the threads, you'll see I started one this afternnon on that very point. I mentioned that Tooth and Claw aside, I thought all the other second stories of the new series has been, well not poor, but just not to my liking, and my least favourite of that particular season. It's just a personal opinion, several people disgreed but that's cool, it just seems after TBB it just seems the new series suffers from a second story syndrome.....

It has more to do with the weight of anticipation surrounding the first episode and "Coming Soon..." trailer after outlining the series to come...that anticipation doesn't exist for the second episode and so it is something of a non-event but all of them generally bear up well when watched dispassionately at a later date...

...as for TEOTW - what it did (and I believe what it was designed to do) was expose the viewing public to the kind of effects, prosthetics and scale that this new series had at its disposal in the same way that R ticked all the boxes on backstory: after that was all done, the series could once again go where ever it wanted to and take its viewers with it.

Susan Boyle?

Not certain I agree fully on that.

"The End of the World" was better than the excruciating "Rose".

"Tooth and Claw" was much better than "New Earth".

"The Shakespeare Enigma" was better than the iffy "Smith and Jones".

I can't say much about Series 4 as I didnt watch much of it because of Tate. However I did see some of the first epsiode about the monsters of fat - AWFUL - an EMBARRASSMENT!!! I spit upon it!

Surely ep2 of series 4 (whatever it was) was better than that guff?

Interesting that you didn't watch much of one series of a programme you enjoy based on a dislike of one aspect of it and yet consistently pillory others for doing the same when that aspect happens to be Steven Moffat...surely now you can see that their opinion is as valid as yours and that all future evangelising in order to belittle or convert them to your way of thinking would be pointless?

Two points:

1) You frequently seem to want to discuss me, and not Dr Who.

2) I am not a Moffat acolyte or apologist. Unlike some of the more vociferous usual suspects who worship RTD, you won't find me eulogising and defending Moffat constantly. He will probably write some stinkers and people are entitled to say that.