I don't want DW to be limited by my own personal preferences. I look to the writers, producers and cast to open and expand are minds in all areas. To say who she be this or that is very parochial.

I love Unicorn and the Wasp and it is one story that I can watch over and over. But I wouldn't want that sort of story every week. Another story I can watch repeatedly without getting bored is The Girl in The Fireplace. But again, I'd want a different type of story next time round. The fear with Moffat is that all of his stories are tending to be too samey. I thought (as have others) that even his fourth story, Silence in the Library, was a bit like his greatest hits. One thing about RTD, whether you like him or not (and I liked a lot of his stories and disliked a lot as well) is that he could write different types of stories. Doctor Who thrives on diversity!

To be fair, we haven't seen enough of Moff's stories to judge that. Writing one story for a series is one thing (maybe you use similar topics/themes because they fit in with the overall arc). It will be a different game, if he reuses the same stuff for all the episodes he has written in this series. I think we can judge whether he is producing the same old stuff at the end of this series IMO obviously. Just to make it clear, I like RTD's stories (and Moffs).

PS: I loved the Unicorn and the Wasp, and I still discover new references to Agatha Christie. I think some people have tunnel vision (not referring to you) when it comes to deciding what/or what not Dr Who should be.
Last edited by lach doch mal : 15-04-2010 at 10:41

I wonder if the posters who have watched every episode of DW at least a dozen times have any other interests in SiFi, eg. books, films and TV shows.

I think the poster who claims to have watched every episode 10 times is only referring to pre 2005 stories, given their assertions about new Who elsewhere

Speaking for myself, I've probably watched most of the original series several times (undoubtedly over a dozen in some cases), and all of them at least a couple of times. The new ones, mostly not more than once. But I'm also a fan of several other sci-fi series including Blake's 7, Star Trek, Sapphire & Steel and Lexx. They're all different from each other and appeal when in different moods. I find it hard to get into much US sci-fi, though. Even Star Trek is a bit hit and miss.

My only problem with US sci-fi is the Star Trek franchise, but on the whole I'll watch most US sci-fi. I also love Sapphire & Steel and Blake 7 too.
I've been reading Sci-fi forever, Wyndham and H.G. Wells.
I think Moffat and RTD have this love for sc-fi too.

I always thought that most Dr Who fans enjoy Science Fiction, regardless of the media it comes in(reading, audiotapes). I know I do. I do like some of the American sci-fi series, although I think lately they have lost the plot a bit. I loved Saphire & Steel (must see whether I can get it on DVD).

I definitely agree with you on the bit in bold. They both seem to have this childish enjoyment of science fiction.

John Wyndham is one of the greats. Though I wasn't keen on the most recent TV adaptation of Day of the Triffids.

Despite the fact there were quite a few things that did not make sense, none of it really mattered.

However, one thing did bug me, what the hell was the point of the Smilers?

There was no point to the Smilers at all, except maybe to add a bit of effect for scareiness. Nobody actually got defeated in the end!

I also felt the space station was too similar to the TARDIS, aload of old props like a red telephone box, park benches television sets inside, yet it is 900 years in the future!

But that was the point. Nobody got defeated because there was no actual villain.

I have to agree with Adam....although I understand where you coming from, that maybe it is a bit unfair to judge Moff's style based on Six stories. But at the same time, there was a hell of a lot of diversity in RTD first 6 stories too....and he could have, considering that it was all in the same series, been very similar in style...but they weren't. While Moff's 6 stories expand over five years...and as time passes they seem to get a bit samey...and i think there is a difference between having a identical theme....ie in Moff's case monsters under the bed/superficail darkness...to reusing so many ideas and styles that it gets a bit annoying. For example the Libaray in the two parter has the repitition of the the catchphrases, all which were part of the first three stories, the monster being told go away with words, everyone living, showing a scene before the credits that is again repeated in a slightly different angle later, the Time Traveller wife theme with both Reniette and River, and to an extent Amy as well...in the empty child you had the Doctor being jealous of Jack, in TGITF it was Rose jealous of Reinnette, and then even Donna tried to mark her territory in regards to the Doctor with River, and also the whole "your not going to get your answer till the end!" type of feelings thrown at you throughout the story (which only ever beautifully done in TGITF)...in the end it's not a huge critisim....but it starts giving Moff stories that predictabilty feeling...which is a shame...yet despite RTD having done more stories...he still seems to pull something out of the bag that suprises you....the four knocks being a fine example, despite being told about it a whole year before.

But the Beast Below gives me hope that moff will hopefully not keep trying to stick to the samey wamey style.....allthough he was quite close there too with the smilers for example. They're both excellent writers though.....I just happen to prefer more of RTD's stuff.



sometimes some types of people are recognised by the words alone



I agree they are definitely fans of Sci-fi....

For myself....lately i am finding it hard to keep interested in a lot of new US sci-fi.....still hoping to catch V, and hopefully soon may watch BSG too. But Lost I'm going to wait untill its all over to catch up with...

You could be anyone from Ian Levine to Mad Larry to Jon Blum.

As for the bolded part - yep, sure.

No wonder RTD is so dismissive of a lot of Whofen, or ming-mongs as he calls them.

Once you have it in your head that a particular writer's stories are all the same, you're going to see the parallels whatever they do. You could equally draw the same number of repeated elements from any Who story.

Your right you can....but in Moff's case they were basically screaming from the rooftops....the first three, despite some similarities...feel quite different from each other, but then came the Library two parter....not once did i think going into the story that I was expecting to see the usual style from him, I was in fact really looking forward to it, as like Blink, RTD had really hyped this story too...and he was right about Blink, so my expectations were quite high 9and probably pay a part in expecting too much new things because this was his fourth story) and what we got was really preditcable at times, the catchphrases were annoying, the syle of the story was very similar, the mosnster was got rid of the same way the Empty Child was sent to his room in in the Doctor Dances (which is a brilliant and clever concept there, as the Doctor is telling the child, but here the Vashta Narada leaving due to the Doctor telling them to check him up in a book, just spoils the menace of a threat that was undefeatable not long ago)....

And again with TEH....there were many similarities that I was looking for...but when words like "timey wimey!" and "cowboys" get mentioned with no actual need....I can't help but feel the similar styles.....references are one thing, but once you had such references in the last story....using it in the new one is just annoying...



But like I said, Beast Below was definitely a different beast....so that is great!

I agree and I normally like Eddie Izzard but he acted OTT. would love an adaption of the Chrysalids.

I'm sure the BBC would thank you to give them a look at said episodes (and a lot of people on here would, too.) If you do indeed have "missing" episodes in your possession, I believe the BBC is currently offering a reward to those who return lost episodes to them.

All they need is a copy, and you will get to keep the original you own (if you own any at all.)

So poppycod... would you care to tell us exactly which stories you own?

Yes, that's never been adapted to TV, has it? Only radio. Same with The Kraken Wakes.

Have to agree with you there....I wasn't that keen on the wasp itself as an enemy, but I loved all the Christie references, in much the same way as I enjoyed the Shakespeare stuff too.

As to SM being a bit samey, I have to agree that we've not seen enough yet to really judge. I think personally that what he has written for previous series almost needs to be set aside given that he was writing to someone else's story arcs and wait to judge him until we see how his whole first series in charge hangs together.

so, poppycod hasn't responded. No surprises there

But that is the thing....he hasn't really....he was the only writer in the last five years who was given a free reign.....the only elements he really needed to put up with were the Doctor, and the companion....and even then he didn't always stick to the obvious things that had been establishing in the series' itself...for example, they way the Doctor fell in love with Reinette and left Rose behind with no much thought about her.....yet the previous story he told her that he would never do that to her! Moff has said that he didn't put in the Torchwood reference because RTD hadn't asked him to, with Silence of the Library....it was Phil who noitced the smilarities between the parallel world experince for Donna in Turn Left...and put a stop to them airing so close together....so both RTD and Moff had to work on those to see what they would choose and stuff, Moff even offerred to change his own...and use some other ideas...but RTD said not to....

So despite all this freedom....he still wasn't able to produce four very different stories....

I've said it before....when it comes to Moff...RTD sees him as some fans here do....

He did not have to write different stories, it was enough that they felt different compared to other episodes within the same series. We really have to wait how this series unfold to be able to say more. DW by design can do anything, content and style-wise. It would be a waste if he did not take an advantage of that. But even RTD did not do that all the time, although there was always some "experimental" episode in the series.

I'm not saying he had too, and i doubt they were commisioned because they were different to the other episodes in the series.....they were commisioned because it was by Moff....i think the only times he was asked of specific things were asked to put Jack into the story (but he gave him his own backstory, not RTD) and writing a Doctor-lite strory for series 3.....if he had been more controlled about what to write, or that it should be different to what the rest of the series was like, then they wouldn't have faced the problem of the Library Two parter having similar themes to Turn Left....even RTD had intially given Donna children, that is how similar the clash became....so it was definitely nothing about producing different stories from rest of the series. I'm saying that as he had free reign to do the hell as he wanted....with four stories all we got were very very similar themes...no other reason than because he liked using them, I doubt it was because he ran out of ideas, no more so because he loved those ideas of his....so used them again and again. And like I said, look at RTD's first six stories....you'll find them all very different to each other.....


That is what I liked about the beast below, is that for once, since the Empty Child, Moff was stopping the overt self-referencing...and diving into the unknown again.

I wonder if you got me and (maybe even Mandyxxx) wrong. I generally agree with you that if you are given freedom that you should be able to produce very different stories. However, it's easier to see that you produce similar stuff if you produce 4 or 6 episodes for one series than when you produce 6 episodes over 5 or 6 series. As an example, when I was writing my PhD, I wrote each single chapter as a paper and tried to publish it. When it came to putting the whole thing together, I realised that a lot of my introductions were quite similar and I had to change it (despite the fact that my individual papers might have been good enough to publish). So RTD as the producer of the first 5 series probably had a better idea that his stories had to be different, because he produced them for his story arc and for his vision of Dr Who. On the other hand, Moff was just writing the occasional story, which could have led him to use similar ideas.

It goes both ways really, for those people who are singing Moffs praises after only two episodes, I would have to say, wait until he delivered the whole series. Vice versa, I would advise people who think that he is producing the same stuff and is boring, to wait until we see him deliver a full series as the frontman.

Yep me too, these stories are just good old romp stories, not to be taken too seriously. The wasp itself was pretty meh, but I loved the doctor and Donna's interaction and the references (I loved the Shakespear code though).