Or at least I don't think so, for the simple reason that the Time War could have changed absolutely anything that came before the first episode of the "revived" series.

I'm not one for getting into debates on what constitutes "canon" or anything like that, especially not where Doctor Who is concerned because it is first and foremost a fun bit of entertainment and I think if you start debating stuff like that then you're taking it too seriously and not enjoying it in the spirit that it's meant to be taken in.

However, I have from time to time read people online struggling to reconcile continuity errors or speculating on the appearance of vague characters from the classic series in the new series that the viewing public at large just wouldn't know or care about.

I don't see the need for this because I think the Time War was quite deliberately installed as a plot device to serve many purposes but the main one being that it gave a clean slate in 2005 to do whatever Davies and now Moffat wanted to and that was necessary.

So I believe then that in any clash of continuity or other such problem between the new and old series that the new must take priority every single time. Nothing in the classic series can be viewed as untouchable because the Time War could have changed any of it.

I know that Doctor Who has a lot of nostalgic fans, me being one of them, that love the old series, and saying that its not important might rile a few people, but it really isn't important from the point of view of telling new stories.

The show has new fans since it restarted, many of them quite young, who don't know the classic series back to front and asking them to do so in order to understand what's going on is obviously ridiculous. Doctor Who has fans that have followed the show for decades, but that's not enough to keep it going. Those fans I think have to accept that new interest in the show is the only thing that keeps Doctor Who going, and it always has been, and so those younger/newer fans have got to be more in the minds of the writers than those who have been fans for thirty years and want to see the Valeyard (for instance) make a comeback.

Your brave I'll give you that!


But in terms of the discussion.....I think Time War or no Time War, the new series i don't think the new series go out of their way to make sure they do not have a continuity link to the classic series...even the Time War was more about giving it a bit of a fresh start, with a new arc of the Last of the time lord thing.....plus RTD wasn't a huge fan of the Time Lord race anyway....but not necessarily to have no links whatso ever with the classic series....considering that over the last five years...and even this series, we continue to get bits and bobs (references, monatges, characters) from the classic series. Anyway...thing with continuity in a programme as old as Doctor Who....is that it never can be perfect....there will always be contradictions....and mostly through unintentional plot holes....or just some ideas...

The main problem of course is that there are huge continuity mistakes within the original run itself! Secondly sticking to continuity should not be the main objective and when it is then the stories suffer, just look at the 1980's when JNT had Ian Levine as a continuity adviser.

Finally I think it may even have been the Moff who said in a series about time travel there is no such thing as continuity!

I don't think that the Time War was created to give the production team carte blanche but to give background to a character a lot of viewers had never encountered before.

As far as continuity issues go, fans have been arguing about UNIT dating and other assorted trivialities for decades and will continue to do so, whether it's the original series or the current one. I don't agree that the original series should be wiped from continuity, though. I'd rather they skirted around thorny topics rather than flat-out contradict them!

Time is in flux, as the Doctor has said on several occasions. Basically, just because something once happened at a certain point in time, it might not have happened now.

I tend to think that the classic stories are canon until they get retconed by the new series. I don't think this has happened yet to my knowledge, but if it does then the new series takes priority.

Ofcourse you could always go with the multiple universe theory, with classic and new Who being in paralel worlds.

Then again in fiction anything is possible. No matter how unlikely we could even end up with a story where the first Doctor was the one in the time war, and it was him that regenerated into CE's Doctor. Nah, they wouldn't do that, would they?

Absolute rubbish. The new series is only a continuation of the classic series, there is no real break between them, it's all one show. To anyone who actually cares about Doctor Who, the idea of dismissing 26 years of it as being unimportant in comparison to the new stuff is just ludicrous. And since the writers so far have always managed to avoid contradicting anything, that's obviously their view, too.

Meh..

It is what it is.

You could just as easily argue that there shouldn't be continuity between C.E.'s Season and D.T.'s. Or D.t.'s and M.S.'s.
I don't think we are going to get the 10 incarnations before M.S. 'wiped out' or 'adjusted' . It's nice to have a continuity. You are much more invested in a character who you've watched evolve. For the 'oldies' that connection just goes back further. For the 'newbies' its all fresh, but with the fun of dipping back to see 'how it all began'.

I am wondering how they are going to explain that none of the Humans in Dalek (Set in 2012) recognised the Dalek they had in the vault.

Frankly anyone who gets seriously obsessed with continuity in Doctor Who really does need to get a life. These people are the ones who give Doctor Who fans a bad name with real people!

It's a TV programme - deal with it!

I suppose that timeline is now gone, thanks to Dalek Caan releasing Davros from the timelock.
Its probably best the show doesn't dwell too much on things like alternate timelines as, like Austin Powers, it tends to make me go cross eyed

The Moff and RTD very much support this view.

The trick is not to get bogged down with continuity but make subtle references as and when necessary. And as far as I am concerned, they have pitched it perfectly.

For example Davos to Sarah Jane in Journey's End-'You where there at the creation'. The Doctor, without making it explicit in the Stolen Earth, reffreing to the events in The Dalek Invasion of Earth 'someone tried to move the Earth once before, a long time ago'(or words to that effect).

Those statements where left at that without need for further explanation. Long term fans would know the detail, whilst newer fans could have FUN finding out what the back ground was to these comments. Think of it like researching your family tree.

There are loads more in the new series during the last five years.

Bad continuity as has already been mentioned, is like the JNT era where unless you where fully (or at least part) conversant with what had gone before, as a casual viewer you could be isolated.

Well we maybe on the verge of yet another divergence on Dalek history (although not to this extent), this coming Saturday which will add to the fun.

Attempts have been many times of the years to explain all the various Dalek timelines (google History of the Daleks) and each time matters are disputed.

The one question I would like answered although I think it could be unlikely (unless someone would like to propose one) is what happened to Susan when she left behind in The Dalek Invasion of Earth, if Dalek history was then changed by the Doctors actions in Genises!

Looking at the Archive material, I can't help thinking that it is no coincedence that it was in the minds of the Producers back in the 60's that the Doctor was suffering from the effects of the "Galactic War" (something very fresh in minds since WWII only ended in 1945 and the aftermath continued for years) and suffering from the effects of the "Time War" when he was brought back to our screens in 2005 since once again War was a concept very much in people's minds.

I tend to think that where major decisions are concerned, continuity is observed if only because the show is being produced by a lot of people who grew up with and are fans of the classic series but as has been said already, it is not the over-riding factor in the creation of new stories.

Personally speaking, continuity between old and new doesn't bother me that much so long as the stories we are being shown continue to entertain, intrigue and provide interesting food for thought - that's what stories such as "The Green Death" and "Genesis of the Daleks" (to name but two) did way back when and that is what the majority of stories continue to do today.

I seem to remember watching a Documentary on one of the DVD's in which Terry Nation was told by producers that his latest Dalek script was ostensibly the same as the last he had submitted and the one before that so he went away and came back with "Genesis of the Daleks" which might well indicate that his "altering" of history and ignoring of continuity was a very deliberate act - let's face it, he's kept people debating for nearly 40 years as a result so sometimes a lack of continuity can be a marvellous thing!
Last edited by JohnFlawbod : 14-04-2010 at 13:39

The Time War didn't start with the new series.. RTD said that the first act of the Time War was when the Time Lords used the Doctor to try to destroy the Daleks before they were created (Genesis of the Daleks). Another major event in the Time War was when Skaro was destroyed (Rememberance of the Daleks).

Putting it that way, you can almost understand why the Daleks are so p*ssed off with the Time Lords!

Dalek history wasn't actually changed by his actions, though-the Daleks weren't destroyed, only set back by a few centuries. That wouldn't necessarily have had any effect on their eventual invasion of Earth. I think the Doctor's actions simply became incorporated into the existing time line because he ultimately didn't take the action he'd been sent back to take.

I think there are two types of continuity really. there's the cast iron ones like The TARDIS is a Police Box, The Doctor Regenerates etc. Those sort of continuity you shouldn't really mess with. You do at your peril. After all, if The Daleks started being nice to everyone we'd have a problem wouldn't we?!

The other type you can be more flexible with. Take the Time Lords for example. How much have they changed? Robert Holmes stretched continuity to it's limits in The Deadly Assasin and in The New Series it's gone even further away from the Time Lords first presented in The War Games.

So to answer the question, continuity with the classic series is important, but I think you can afford to be flexible and adjust things for the new series, after all, look at The Cybermen.

Well there is.

Unless you count 15 odd years a hiatus.

The definition of a hiatus is a break or interruption in the continuity of a work or in television terms a break in scheduling of several weeks or more. So yes, I think that about covers it.

Well Michael Grade certainly knew what he was doing when he dressed up cancellation as a hiatus.

It was never formally cancelled. It just wasn't recommissioned for 16 years (excluding the movie).

Like I said he knew what he was doing.

Remember all that brouhaha with Ian Levine smashing up his telly when the show was going to be "cancelled".

Yes, very well. Good old Ian...

Thanks for this.

What I find confusing is this-the BBC website explanation:
http:www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic...history2.shtml

I think that's right. The classic series exists, and that fact shouldn't be ignored. The makers of the new series shouldn't blatantly contradict it any more than they must, but also shouldn't get too obsessed with making everything fit. After all, did the overlooking of when the UNIT stories had actually been set in Mawdryn Undead really ruin the show for many fans?