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Chase Play After Pause - Problem


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Old 19-04-2010, 15:06
Flyer 10
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It happens from the media list too as thats how I watch programs that are currently on in case the program ends and I dont catch up in time and miss the end.
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Old 19-04-2010, 16:51
grahamlthompson
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It happens from the media list too as thats how I watch programs that are currently on in case the program ends and I dont catch up in time and miss the end.
can you relate it to other activities going on ?

eg

Second recording due in 15 min

Second recording actually starting

Second recording finishing

Could it be a rogue source of IR like a low energy lamp.

Anything emitting significant RF in the vicinity, mobile phone router etc.
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Old 19-04-2010, 19:49
Flyer 10
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As far as I can tell its totally random although it could be related to the length of the program as I had it flick me back 5 or 6 times on a multi hour program once. The Phone and router are always on so I think it would happen all the time if they were interfering.
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Old 19-04-2010, 20:26
grahamlthompson
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As far as I can tell its totally random although it could be related to the length of the program as I had it flick me back 5 or 6 times on a multi hour program once. The Phone and router are always on so I think it would happen all the time if they were interfering.
It's going to be hard to pin down a reason as it's clearly not a widespread problem. Not even sure which posts in this thread actually refer to dropping out of chase playback rather than the well known problem with time shifting. All I can suggest you keep a log of when it happens to see if there is some common cause. (same to everyone else if affected). It can't be random, computers just don't work that way. There has to be some combination of events that precipitates the problem
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Old 20-04-2010, 10:03
Flyer 10
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It can't be random, computers just don't work that way. There has to be some combination of events that precipitates the problem
I take it youve never had a memory problem. Most of the computer BSOD seem to happen at random times.
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Old 20-04-2010, 10:26
grahamlthompson
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I take it youve never had a memory problem. Most of the computer BSOD seem to happen at random times.

That's a fault not a bug. If you have a faulty component no amount of firmware upgrades will help.

Bugs are as a result of an unanticipated sequence of events creating an unwanted outcome, to be fixable it has to be repeatable.

If you have one it will be repeatable on other machines given the same circumstances.

I am going to set my forward skip to a low value, start an instant recording and repeatedly skip forward as far as possible to see if I can reproduce this.
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Old 20-04-2010, 13:30
Flyer 10
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Bugs are as a result of an unanticipated sequence of events creating an unwanted outcome, to be fixable it has to be repeatable..
Yes but plenty of bugs arent repeatable and seem totally random.

Ive only come across one bug thats repeatable and still not fixed.

Do a scan, then delete 50 or 60 channels with lots of remote presses. It will reboot the system.
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Old 20-04-2010, 14:13
grahamlthompson
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Yes but plenty of bugs arent repeatable and seem totally random.

Ive only come across one bug thats repeatable and still not fixed.

Do a scan, then delete 50 or 60 channels with lots of remote presses. It will reboot the system.
Seem and actual aren't the same thing. A bug is a flaw in the programming logic.

As to repeatable bugs most would say the failure of the hdr to recover from a power cut is the worst remaining bug left for the hdr.

There is also the popping up of subtitles when rewinding and then playing live TV

There is also the failure of the firmware to identify programming clashes arising from using padding until the actual recording falls due.

There is the overscan issue introduced in the latest firmware (I can't use anything but 720p or 1080i over hdmi without a large amount of overscan)

I would love Humax to put back the variable volume for mp2 tracks over S/Pdif lost in recent firmware upgrades

And one for the USALS brigade, using USALs forces the box to work only with a single tuner in freesat mode.

Anyone else want to chip in with current bugs
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Old 20-04-2010, 14:56
grahamlthompson
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About 30 min ago set the forward skip button to it's minimum forward skip of 30 sec.

Started an instant recording on 119. For the last 20 min been pressing the forward skip to get to within 30 secs of real time then pressed pause left it for a while. Repeated this process heaven knows how many times. Despite on some ocassions I must have been seconds behind real time there were no problems at all.
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Old 20-04-2010, 23:48
Flyer 10
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Well i can go days without it happening then it will happen multiple times on the same program.
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Old 21-04-2010, 09:59
grahamlthompson
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Well i can go days without it happening then it will happen multiple times on the same program.
Is it any specific channel that's affected, if you rewind the recording does it happen in the same places or different ones. Like I said I tend to watch virtually everything in chasing playback and have never experienced a problem.

Does it happen without you touching the remote control or when you touch a remote button ? Faulty remote ?

If you get a bout of it happening and you are not touching the remote does covering the IR reciever window on the front of the stb stop it.
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Old 21-04-2010, 11:36
2Bdecided
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It happens from the media list too as thats how I watch programs that are currently on in case the program ends and I dont catch up in time and miss the end.
No one else has ever reported this, so as Graham suggests, this is something specific to your box / house / etc!

Since it's not a bug, you can't expect Humax to fix it. Though maybe you should send your box back for a replacement?

Cheers,
David.
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Old 21-04-2010, 11:40
2Bdecided
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Time shift playback has been flawed since the first hdr came out in 2008. The problem arises because when the programme finishes the recorded programme buffer is flushed leaving you back in real time and missing the end. Afaik this thread is the first that has mentioned random drop outs from time shift playback. When a HD channel is being watched the time shift buffer is recorded without encryption so that if the buffer was not flushed at the programme end anyone (like myself) with external access to the HDD could get over the Freesat encryption requirement by simply copying the buffered file. Pretty sure this is why this has not been fixed by Humax in any of the firmware upgrades from the initial release.
I don't buy this - they could flush it when you stop watching it, rather than when it stops being broadcast. That would still remove it from the HDD.

Also, as we know, the HDR isn't the fastest machine when it comes to deleting things - yet the buffer seems to be deleted instantly - so it's really unlikely it's "properly" removing the data.

If you're watching live, you can record it in non-Freesat mode anyway - far easier than hacking the box to access the buffer.

So I think it's very unlikely this is related to content protection.

Anyway, isn't it a "feature" on other Humax products, including those which don't encrypt?

It suggests it's some architectural limitation, or software issue they can't be bothered to fix.

Cheers,
David.
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Old 21-04-2010, 12:46
grahamlthompson
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I don't buy this - they could flush it when you stop watching it, rather than when it stops being broadcast. That would still remove it from the HDD.

Also, as we know, the HDR isn't the fastest machine when it comes to deleting things - yet the buffer seems to be deleted instantly - so it's really unlikely it's "properly" removing the data.

If you're watching live, you can record it in non-Freesat mode anyway - far easier than hacking the box to access the buffer.

So I think it's very unlikely this is related to content protection.

Anyway, isn't it a "feature" on other Humax products, including those which don't encrypt?

It suggests it's some architectural limitation, or software issue they can't be bothered to fix.

Cheers,
David.
I have tried setting a watch reservation on a HD programme and then transfering the drive to the usb port.. (swapped the two 1TB drives) There is a short bit of the recorded buffer that the hdr recognises as a playable file but so far not got round to looking on a PC although a post on Hummy.org suggests that the buffer is recoverable this way. As you say you can use non-freesat if you really wan't unencrypted HD so it's purely out of interest
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Old 21-04-2010, 13:56
tv-Addict
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Is it any specific channel that's affected, if you rewind the recording does it happen in the same places or different ones. Like I said I tend to watch virtually everything in chasing playback and have never experienced a problem.

Does it happen without you touching the remote control or when you touch a remote button ? Faulty remote ?

If you get a bout of it happening and you are not touching the remote does covering the IR receiver window on the front of the stb stop it.
It has definitely happened to me on BBC News (All remotes sitting on the coffee table, not being touched)
I would say only about 5 this year, so it is not a major issue for me.
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Old 21-04-2010, 14:29
grahamlthompson
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It has definitely happened to me on BBC News (All remotes sitting on the coffee table, not being touched)
I would say only about 5 this year, so it is not a major issue for me.
Interesting, was it BBC News everytime (I never record the news). Was it the full time News Channel or just on your regional variant of BBC 1. ? If so what region ?

Desperately trying to find a common link -
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Old 21-04-2010, 17:49
Flyer 10
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Its not the news channel thats the problem as I never watch, never mind record them.
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Old 22-04-2010, 13:53
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Interesting, was it BBC News everytime (I never record the news). Was it the full time News Channel or just on your regional variant of BBC 1. ? If so what region ?

Desperately trying to find a common link -
BBC News channel - I was probably watching Click.
That is the only channel I tend to watch with live pause.
Everything else I watch is recorded.

A long time ago (about a year!) I used to pause for a few seconds just to get the time displayed on the LCD screen, when using the TV on another input (and not wanting to put it into standby for 10 minutes - I don't like spinning down the disks for short periods).
But I found the clock would often disappear, and the system had somehow caught up to "live".
Only recently have I seen this "catch up" happen while watching it.

Last edited by tv-Addict : 22-04-2010 at 13:59. Reason: add some history
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Old 22-04-2010, 14:01
grahamlthompson
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BBC News channel - I was probably watching Click.
That is the only channel I tend to watch with live pause.
Everything else I watch is recorded.
Think we have wires crossed here. The problem with live pause is
well known. We are talking about playing back a recording from the media list before it has finished recording (Chasing Playback) and it dropping back to real time by itself.
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Old 26-04-2010, 13:53
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Think we have wires crossed here. The problem with live pause is
well known. We are talking about playing back a recording from the media list before it has finished recording (Chasing Playback) and it dropping back to real time by itself.
The OP was talking about live pause, and I have only seen it during live pause.
I thought chase play from media list was only brought up later (once we cleared up what it means)

Anyway, in case it is useful...
The live pause "jump to live" happened yesterday.
(first time since this thread started)
Recording ITV4 (BTCC) 11:00 - 15:00
Recording BBC News (Click) 11:30-12:00
Watching ITV4 <1 minute delayed (I skipped back to re-watch a crash)
at 11:52, it jumped to live, with the on screen message "Live viewing" or something like that.
Later, I played both recordings, and there was no jump.
All remotes were sat on the table, and I hadn't even moved for several minutes! (nobody else in the house)
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Old 26-04-2010, 14:05
grahamlthompson
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The OP was talking about live pause, and I have only seen it during live pause.
I thought chase play from media list was only brought up later (once we cleared up what it means)

Anyway, in case it is useful...
The live pause "jump to live" happened yesterday.
(first time since this thread started)
Recording ITV4 (BTCC) 11:00 - 15:00
Recording BBC News (Click) 11:30-12:00
Watching ITV4 <1 minute delayed (I skipped back to re-watch a crash)
at 11:52, it jumped to live, with the on screen message "Live viewing" or something like that.
Later, I played both recordings, and there was no jump.
All remotes were sat on the table, and I hadn't even moved for several minutes! (nobody else in the house)
The thread is labelled CHASE PLAY and post 26 states it happens from the media list as well. I have said several times that time shifted playback is flawed, playback in chasing playback by selecting the ongoing recording from the media list works as it should. At least I can't get it not too . Pausing a live transmission and then replaying from the time shift buffer is not Chasing Playback.
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Old 26-04-2010, 16:02
Flyer 10
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Happened to me watching the cricket.

It throws me back to the media list, then when you click resume, it goes from the start rather than where it stopped playing. So you have to skip forward trying to find the point you were at. It does get annoying if it happens 4 or 5 times in a single program.
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Old 26-04-2010, 16:12
grahamlthompson
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Happened to me watching the cricket.

It throws me back to the media list, then when you click resume, it goes from the start rather than where it stopped playing. So you have to skip forward trying to find the point you were at. It does get annoying if it happens 4 or 5 times in a single program.
That's interesting this happens when you catch up to real time (ie no buffer left), did this happen spontanously when you were behind real time or did you fast forward in some way to real time ?
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Old 26-04-2010, 16:54
galleonslap
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Going back to the original problem with "pause live", I don't understand. I haven't noticed this, and since reading this thread I tried live pausing a programme on my Humax HDR. I waited until the programme had finished in real time and the next programme had been on for over 10 minutes. I then could resume play from the point I had paused, seeing the end of the programme I had paused on, the programme junction and the following programme time shifted. I must have misunderstood the circumstances of this if it is a known bug. Can anyone clarify?
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Old 26-04-2010, 16:58
GaseousClay
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I must have misunderstood the circumstances of this if it is a known bug. Can anyone clarify?
Welcome to the forum galleonslap

Yes the bug only arises when a recording is being made on the same channel that you are performing a time shifted viewing. When the recording terminates the box dumps the buffer so it then reverts back to live tv.
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