Could someone illustrate all the fundamental changes in the show’s format we’ve apparently had since Steven Moffat succeeded Russell T Davies?

Quite a few posts around here seem determined to break everything down into SM vs. RTD arguments, purely – in my humble – to create pointless friction. If you hated the past five years of Doctor Who then bad luck – although why you persevered if it was so offensive, I don’t know – but to insist that we’re now enjoying a completely new version of the series confounds me a little.

Wasn’t Bracewell’s “Dorabella” scene in Victory of the Daleks the kind of sequence which would have been labelled “unnecessarily sentimental” if it had been produced under RTD? Wouldn’t the Star Whale have been pilloried as another lazy RTD creation, joining his cats, rhinos, flies, etc.? Wouldn’t The Eleventh Hour have been just too damn long if it had had Davies’ name on the front page of the exact same script rather than Moffat’s?

If you were an average viewer, would you have any idea that the Doctor Who production team had changed? I don’t think you would and, more importantly, I don’t think you’d care. For me, the series is the same as it’s been since 2005. There are things I like and things I don’t but I certainly can’t see any seismic shifts in style or tone.

What am I missing?

Very true, for instance the logo isn't a sign of a new producer, because it changes within a year of the Doctor anyway. The first logo change came a few months after the first regeneration. When Pertwee took over and the show went colour, it changed again. The diamond logo associated with Tom Baker was actually introduced in Pertwee's last season, and the Davison logo was introduced for Tom's final season. It was twewaked slightly when Colin Baker took over, Sylvester McCoy got a new logo from his first episode, McGann updated the Pertwee logo, and obviously the last logo was brought in for the 2005 revival. It was tweaked in series 3, Tennant's second year, then replaced when Matt took over.

The sonic screw driver isn't used to fixed everything!

The Eleventh Hour was just 5 minutes longer than The Christmas Invasion...

So far there have been no magical psuedo-scientific get out of jail free buttons as in Journey's End, The Parting of the Ways and The Last of the Time Lords, though the writing a virus on a mobile required some heavy suspension of disbelief and we've yet to see what Moffat will do to produce a series finale that has the required pacing without requiring an improbably sudden reversal of fortunes.

I think you're right though — without being told, it's not glaringly obvious that the production team has changed. But that's a good thing.

I agree with the OP, there aren't huge differences that people are making out to be. Yes unlike the last four series' I have only enjoyed one episode out of the first three, where as it usually was the first two parter that used to be a bit of a let down....but that is more down to subjectivity and how much you enjoy something or you don't. The Eleventh Hour had given it that fairytale feel at the beginning...which just made me feel like a kid again, but now that seems to have gone out of the window with thethird episode. But other than that there are no huge differences, excpet that I have so far enjoyed the stories less than I have in the past....





Lets look at series four and see how many times the Sonic has "fixed" everything...
PIC...it was used as a fun tool and a battle of the pen/sonic, but it was the adipose pendant that was the solution
FOP...don't remember seeing it much at all, except for causing a distraction in Lucius house and cuting some rope....it was the Doctor's decsion making that was the solution
POTO..apart from opening doors...it didn't do anything, in fact the Doctor didn't even solve the plot...
TSS/TPS...apart form the usual opening doors and examinig, and having a go at the portal....it was the teraform that solved the plot
TDD...again opening doors and stuff....
TUATW...don't remember seeing it much at all....certianly didn't play a part in the solution
SITL/FOTD...well here now apart from opening doors, and being part of the mystery of why River had the sonic....and for saving River's life, and for fixing the Data core....the only thing it couldn't do was work on wood...oh wait a minute isn't this story by Moff???
Midnight...apart from examining and opening a hatch....it wasn't used at all
Turn Left...apart from falling from the dead Doctor's hand...it wasn't seen at all really...ceratinly didn't play a part in the main plot.
TSE/JE....again, not seen much at all, apart from the occasional points where the Doctor was trying to fix the crucible when it was blown up by the Supreme Dalek.....and certainly didn't play in resolving the plot...the Tardis did



So no....thereisn't much differene in terms of the use of sonic either....excluding Moff's story


As did defusing a bomb by the power of love.....at least in the LOTTL....the power of words already had been established in the Shakespeare code, and the 15 satellites that were already established to be controlling the thoughts of people.....here it was just a random...."hope reminding him of his humanity will work".....



So over all the solutions are not that different to what we have become used to....

It's still the multi-purpose plot device it's been since 2005, though. I can understand why it's utilised in that way - 45 minute episodes being what they are - but I'd prefer it if it was left in the Tardis now and again!


I'm not sure how I feel about that one. Current Who's denouements don't always satisfy me but are they any better than some of the nonsense presented in the original series? I know a lot more people watching Doctor Who now who wouldn't go near it in the 80s because they viewed it as "sci-fi", ie. impenetrable plots, cheesy dialogue and silver-foil robots.

If the metal bomb became human because it remembered the false memory of love isn't magic, I don't know what is. That spitfire could put bubbles round them as soon as anyone had the idea is suspension of disbelief, a metal bomb not going off because of feelings is magic. That's OK - Moffat's said he's going for fairytale, but I agree with the OP that any idea there's some massive change in the plotting and style doesn't seem true to me.

I feel there is a very strong difference, though, in the writing of the characters. It's arguable that Gatiss was writing sometimes for Ten, but generally the Doctor, the companion and the characters they meet feel very different than RTD would have written them - to me. I'm holding fire on saying if I like it or not till I know what the big secret is about Amy. But I do think this hard on the actors because people are blaming either Tennant or Smith and Karen Gillan, depending on their preferences, for things that are, imo, much more to do with the writing.

Errr, how exactly was the bomb deactivated last night?, oh yes, by the power of love.......

I agree 100%, apart from cosmetic changes such as the titles, music etc, there has been no huge change of direction or emphasis in the show, apart from in the minds of those that want to see one, just to prove a point....

Got to agree with that. I found the notion somewhat weak. I liked the idea that Amy understood human emotion better than the Doctor, but the whole basis of stopping a bomb going off by having the man feel all gooey inside was a bit hard to swallow.

Yeah, I don't think the change is particularly noticeable but there is something there. Mind you, and this isn't meant as a criticism, I could easily hear Billie Piper delivering Amy's lines in VotD like "In your own time, Paisley boy!"

I couldn't. I doubt if Rose would know where Paisley is. It's outside the M25, after all.

The bomb solution was equivalent in logic but barely comparable in narrative significance. The bomb person solution was contrived and lazy but it was an extremely minor plot point towards a solution that the Doctor himself described afterwards as failure.

I appreciate the hardcore RTD fans are likely to feel overly defensive given the behaviour of many on these forums towards the guy, so I'll repeat verbatim from my previous comment:

Which he then was convinced by the others as being a success....the whole Dalek thing was never going to be resolved...it was obvious from the monet the new ones came along that they were going escape....as why design all that just to kill them off? So the actuall point of danger, and big solving to do is the bomb....which was defeated by the power of love!




Thing is though....now everytime someone will make a counter argument to show that there really isn't such a huge difference to the solutions and some ideas like the over use of the sonic screwdriver...some pople will quickely just dismiss their argument as them being hardcore RTD fans feeling overly defensive.....there are lot of incosistacies displeyed by some (definitely not all) who seem to say they have been enjoying the last couple of stories, and yet those were the very things they hated in RTD's era....I'll give an example of Midnight which was dismissed because it was about human nature and subtext and the poster wanted his Doctor Who to be about Space ships and creepy monsters...yet that said poster spent a lot of time patronising those who felt last weeks show was boring or didn't make sense, saying things like it was a thoughtful indepth intelligent script that went over peoples heads. And I think that is the main reason that seems to confuse the likes of the OP and myself, where people seem to suggest that the new series is something entirely different to waht has gone before, and praise the very things they hated first.

This isn't at you....just something I have noticed...

Do we have many actual RTD fans here? It's obvious a lot of David Tennant fans have stopped watching since "Ten" ( I hate that term) left but Davies himself? He has written some fantastic scripts, though, "The Second Coming" in particular.

Absolutely. It's the inconsistent arguments which irritate me. An RTD script, if you didn't understand it, was 45 minutes of lazy plotting but, under Moffat, you, the viewer, are the lazy one if you didn't follow the plot. Utter hypocrisy!

Just to be clear, I've been watching Doctor Who since Pertwee; I know some of the "knowledgable" fans round here view newer fans as having less of a right to an opinion than them. A lot of criticisms are easily brushed off with "of course, being an RTD fan, you have your own - ahem - Agenda, don't you?"

I think that, after five years of moaning, a lot of the naysayers are making a definite point of shouting loudly about adoring the Moffat Era (all three episodes of it!) rather than lose face. To me, it's Doctor Who, no matter who's behind the wheel.

Agreed.....

Exactly as it should be. There are peaks and troughs throughout the whole of Doctor Who, but as someone mentioned on another thread, its a bit like supporting your favourite football team from promotion to relegation and back to promotion again.

The Tardis is bigger!
The console room is bigger!
The Sonic Screwdriver is bigger!
The Daleks are bigger!
Even the companion is bigger!

In a nutshell, everything is bigger, except the budget...

Did Mr Moffatt ever actually say it was going to be a radical reinvention or was that not just something that fans grew to expect would happen following the transition?

Do you have the budget figures by the way? I'd be interested in the shortfall over previous series.

A rather large generalisation there. I don't quite get this labelling of people that tends to go on in forums, especially this one. It's silly and simplistic. If you expressed discontent in the RTD era then you are a hater or troll, if you enjoyed it then you are a RTD fanboy. And now vice-versa. There's a constant you or us polarisation going on and it's stupid. People don't take your comments as comments, they decide if you are on their side or against and reply accordingly. I'm beginning to think it'll never end and personally, I'm not sure I can be bothered anymore because it'll never change. I'm sure I'm not the only one that's fed up of having to defend every flipping thing they type in this forum (and actually I'm not, I know a number of forum posters who left this forum for those reasons).

So, to you Mr OP, I'd say this. It's not worth getting too concerned about because the in-fighting, bickering will never end. If it wasn't about Steven Moffatt, it would be about Matt Smith, the colour of the Tardis, the timeslot of the show etc etc.. This is the nature of fandom, it's a shame but that's fandom for you.

To quote a famous movie character "Maybe I'm just getting too old for this.."

Specific figures haven't been published, but Moffat discussed it in the publicity before the series.

This weeks Private Eye is worth a look, it reports on the £1m that was spent by BBC marketing on the 3D cinema trailer when the series budget was being cut. The new Daleks are a very direct mechandise opportunity to raise money through BBC Worldwide.

The new Daleks are coloured to be distinguishable for their varying abilities in the Adventure Game episodes coming in June - as for SM's comments, I merely read that he refused to be drawn on budget but made the very salient point that often bugetary constraints can promote rather than stifle creativity.

I read Private Eye as a satirical magazine, not as a purveyor of actual fact...you know that's what it is, right?

I enjoyed Davis, I'm enjoying Moffat.

As I've said elsewhere there are some people determined to hate/love everything about the new creative team.

And yes the truth is there have been some cosmetic changes the show itself at its core is not hugely different and I'm really enjoying it, probably a little more than i had enjoyed the tale end of Tennant, but I think thats due to the freshness of the new Dr and Amy not anything massive that has changed.