... I mean seriously, watching it again on Watch now, just a great episode the kids were good, Martha acts! Tennant underplays it brilliantly (consumate Dr performance) story good and very well written and paced. Blink was great but this was top draw? Thoughts?
how good was Human Nature/Family of Blood?
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That was the one story I really liked David Tennant in. Couldn't stand his Doctor, but I have to admit he put in a terrific performance as poor, doomed John Smith.
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“That was the one story I really liked David Tennant in. Couldn't stand his Doctor, but I have to admit he put in a terrific performance as poor, doomed John Smith.”
“That was the one story I really liked David Tennant in. Couldn't stand his Doctor, but I have to admit he put in a terrific performance as poor, doomed John Smith.”
How did you feel about the revenge of the timelord bit at the end?
i thought the revenge of the timelord bit was actually brilliantly done because it was done without shouting just recounted very matter of factly by the narration... oh and the music levels were spot on....
One of the best, excellent story, the chilling revenge from the Dr, and then it went and made me sob like a small child at the end - couldn't really ask for anything else
DT certainly knows how to pull those heart strings, such emotional acting, especially in the last 15 mins.
Originally Posted by wildbill_hicock:
“How did you feel about the revenge of the timelord bit at the end?”
“How did you feel about the revenge of the timelord bit at the end?”
That, I wasn't so keen on. It was well done, it was a decent enough scene (or set of scenes, rather) but it did continue the 'Doctor as a godlike being' thing which cropped up repeatedly in this era's stories and which I became really irritated by.
See ting I know the whole 'godlike' thing grated for a lot of people but actually here i didnt think it went across like that, he actually came across as cold, I mean he didnt just kill them/fluch em away ala racnoss, he actually devised traps they would have to suffer in for eternity, cold, malicious, really sinister
Originally Posted by Rodarama:
“See ting I know the whole 'godlike' thing grated for a lot of people but actually here i didnt think it went across like that, he actually came across as cold, I mean he didnt just kill them/fluch em away ala racnoss, he actually devised traps they would have to suffer in for eternity, cold, malicious, really sinister”
“See ting I know the whole 'godlike' thing grated for a lot of people but actually here i didnt think it went across like that, he actually came across as cold, I mean he didnt just kill them/fluch em away ala racnoss, he actually devised traps they would have to suffer in for eternity, cold, malicious, really sinister”
That isn't really the Doctor though, is it? The Doctor was, as has been remarked on by one of the classic series' creators 'never cowardly or cruel'. And while cowardice didn't come into it, I think in this case, cruelty definitely did.
Well yes I see your point and I suppose subjectively speaking it depends on where you stand on new who, I always thought that the time war changed his character beyond that of the classic series and this was reflected in Chris Ecclestones character, I mean different strokes and all that but for me the cruelty actually made hima more credible character.
Without doubt my favourite nu Who episodes. Everything is perfect esp. Jessica Hynes. David was excellent. Must admit didn't know he was scottish when I first started watching DW again.
Originally Posted by Rodarama:
“Well yes I see your point and I suppose subjectively speaking it depends on where you stand on new who, I always thought that the time war changed his character beyond that of the classic series and this was reflected in Chris Ecclestones character, I mean different strokes and all that but for me the cruelty actually made hima more credible character.”
“Well yes I see your point and I suppose subjectively speaking it depends on where you stand on new who, I always thought that the time war changed his character beyond that of the classic series and this was reflected in Chris Ecclestones character, I mean different strokes and all that but for me the cruelty actually made hima more credible character.”
The thing about the Doctor's character is, it can never really change and IMO never should. Outer characteristics and mannerisms yes, but the Doctor is an old fashioned hero at heart.
Ah an interesting point, but I would ask you is he? cos IIRC he wasn't averse to being a bit steely in the classic series, my reading of the use of regeneration is that each personality is prone to act differently, its quite feasible Davisons doc would have 'found another way' to potentially paraphrase, whereas Tennant and ecclestone weren't always so noble or heroic, For one I actually enjoyed it, i know it makes the dr seem flawed as a traditional hero perhaps but I would never say he was a hero in the errol flynn mode anyway. As I say different strokes, but you make some very good points.
It had a good story, was full of great imagary (the schoolboys having to shoot the enemy to save themselves), was genuinely scary, and it was poignant on many levels. It also neatly contrasted the differences in the character of The Doctor and what made him different to humans.
I always felt it strange that he couldn't understand why asking Joan to accompany him was inappropriate, but now I think that it was a really neat bit of writing illustrating the difference between the human and Timelord doctor and their attitudes to love. In a way that it made the later creation of 10.5 all the more crass an idea, but that's another story
.
I just loved this episode.
I always felt it strange that he couldn't understand why asking Joan to accompany him was inappropriate, but now I think that it was a really neat bit of writing illustrating the difference between the human and Timelord doctor and their attitudes to love. In a way that it made the later creation of 10.5 all the more crass an idea, but that's another story
. I just loved this episode.
Absolutly fantasic peice of television....the story, the suspence, the scares, the emotions, the cast....just terrific all the way....
I'd disgree that the Doctor was never a cruel character....after all why the hell did he kidnapp Barbara and Ian in the very start if all he ever was, was an old fashioned hero????
The best thing about the Doctor is that he isn't a simple hero...that he is flawed...or can be a coward, he can be cruel and he can be manipulative....seriously I don't get it, that some people who grew up watching the show seem to have the wrong idea about it and its main character. Doesn't make sense really.
I'd disgree that the Doctor was never a cruel character....after all why the hell did he kidnapp Barbara and Ian in the very start if all he ever was, was an old fashioned hero????
The best thing about the Doctor is that he isn't a simple hero...that he is flawed...or can be a coward, he can be cruel and he can be manipulative....seriously I don't get it, that some people who grew up watching the show seem to have the wrong idea about it and its main character. Doesn't make sense really.
It was a truly brilliant episode. Had everything, even a love affair, of sorts, for the Doctor.
I did wonder at the end though: when the Doctor meted out his various punishments to the Family, and the "brother" said that he was being kind not hunting them down, why then, if he was so powerful that he could do these things, was he running from them in the first place? Why was he so worried he'd be found that he had to take human form and forget who he was?
Just wondered...
I did wonder at the end though: when the Doctor meted out his various punishments to the Family, and the "brother" said that he was being kind not hunting them down, why then, if he was so powerful that he could do these things, was he running from them in the first place? Why was he so worried he'd be found that he had to take human form and forget who he was?
Just wondered...
Originally Posted by crazzyaz7:
“Absolutly fantasic peice of television....the story, the suspence, the scares, the emotions, the cast....just terrific all the way....
”
“Absolutly fantasic peice of television....the story, the suspence, the scares, the emotions, the cast....just terrific all the way....
”
To add a bit of balance..... It was OK, quite enjoyable, but let down by that dreadful "Doctor's Revenge" ending (funny how people have recently been slagging off parts of Victory as unrealistic but don't seem to have a problem with this) and by the central conceit - he's a Timelord, how can he suddenly become a completely different species (again, some people have had trouble suspending their disbelief recently, but this really did take quite some suspending).
Actually, I thought it was better than the book.
The acting was almost universally top-notch, especially DT, Jessica Hynes and Harry Lloyd, and the whole production worked brilliantly.
One of DT's stronger showings, and one for everyone to be proud of.
Joan's fortitude in the face of the inevitable was excruciatingly heart-rending, as was the "do I, don't I?" dilemma faced by "John Smith".
As near to perfect as it gets!
The acting was almost universally top-notch, especially DT, Jessica Hynes and Harry Lloyd, and the whole production worked brilliantly.
One of DT's stronger showings, and one for everyone to be proud of.
Joan's fortitude in the face of the inevitable was excruciatingly heart-rending, as was the "do I, don't I?" dilemma faced by "John Smith".
As near to perfect as it gets!
Originally Posted by Pretzel:
“It ... was full of great imagary (the schoolboys having to shoot the enemy to save themselves)
...he couldn't understand why asking Joan to accompany him was inappropriate, but now I think that it was a really neat bit of writing illustrating the difference between the human and Timelord doctor and their attitudes to love. ”
“It ... was full of great imagary (the schoolboys having to shoot the enemy to save themselves)
...he couldn't understand why asking Joan to accompany him was inappropriate, but now I think that it was a really neat bit of writing illustrating the difference between the human and Timelord doctor and their attitudes to love. ”
1. Brilliant image... far from the glorious soldiering war is often portrayed as, these boys were crying as they faced their first real battle.
2. Absolutely! Often the Doctor (especially DT) seems unable to grasp these things, reminding us that he is, after all, NOT human!
Originally Posted by crazzyaz7:
“Absolutly fantasic peice of television....the story, the suspence, the scares, the emotions, the cast....just terrific all the way....
I'd disgree that the Doctor was never a cruel character....after all why the hell did he kidnapp Barbara and Ian in the very start if all he ever was, was an old fashioned hero???? The best thing about the Doctor is that he isn't a simple hero...that he is flawed...or can be a coward, he can be cruel and he can be manipulative....seriously I don't get it, that some people who grew up watching the show seem to have the wrong idea about it and its main character. Doesn't make sense really.”
“Absolutly fantasic peice of television....the story, the suspence, the scares, the emotions, the cast....just terrific all the way....
I'd disgree that the Doctor was never a cruel character....after all why the hell did he kidnapp Barbara and Ian in the very start if all he ever was, was an old fashioned hero????
The best thing about the Doctor is that he isn't a simple hero...that he is flawed...or can be a coward, he can be cruel and he can be manipulative....seriously I don't get it, that some people who grew up watching the show seem to have the wrong idea about it and its main character. Doesn't make sense really.”
'He hates tyranny and oppression and anything that is anti-life. He never gives in and he never gives up, however overwhelming the odds against him. The Doctor believes in good and fights evil. Though often caught up in violent situations he is a man of peace. He is never cruel or cowardly. In fact, to put it simply, the Doctor is a hero'.
Former script editor Terrance Dicks, and he ought to know.
Originally Posted by tingramretro:
“'He hates tyranny and oppression and anything that is anti-life. He never gives in and he never gives up, however overwhelming the odds against him. The Doctor believes in good and fights evil. Though often caught up in violent situations he is a man of peace. He is never cruel or cowardly. In fact, to put it simply, the Doctor is a hero'.
Former script editor Terrance Dicks, and he ought to know.”
“'He hates tyranny and oppression and anything that is anti-life. He never gives in and he never gives up, however overwhelming the odds against him. The Doctor believes in good and fights evil. Though often caught up in violent situations he is a man of peace. He is never cruel or cowardly. In fact, to put it simply, the Doctor is a hero'.
Former script editor Terrance Dicks, and he ought to know.”
Ah... Terrence Dicks. Imagine what HE would have done with the show!
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