Well for that I would argue there is nothing to say that he can't become human....and for me all I need is a bit of technobabble, or at least something logically emotionally if nothing else, and it was intrusive part of the story, plus I had read the book. While if we go for the Spitfires, again I am happy to suspend my disblief that Dalek technology can create gravity bubbles, but the way it came about, from being told its just a theory to all of a sudden being used just took that extra bit of need to believe....if they had said they already had built them, I would have been happy with that, or at least not said that it was only a theory. And as for the Bracewell Bomb, again it was the way it just all of a sudden came about...just a few words earlier on to suggest that there was some human connection to bracewell....seriously its the pacing and the way it just came about....and as for the Doctor getting angry...I loved that, but again what spoiled it was the fact that it came about too quickly. While here at least he had given them them a chance by hiding, and it was after the destruction of all things that they had caused because they wanted to live...well that is what the Doctor gave them. It wasn't rushed.

I wish they'd get uncle Terrance back in to write an episode. He's often unfairly slated, but he was one of the greats. And his Target novelisations of the stories got generations of kids reading!

Yet what we see on screen...right from the first episode...is something else...


Or maybe he was just saying what the Doctor believes himself to be.....

Too right! My first Doctor Who book was Web of Fear... he got me hooked! Slated by adults, because he was writing books for a children's market. Unfair, as you say! But he knew his stuff. I'd love to see his name on an episode.

Can I just say how nice it is to reply to a positive post for once! Thanks!

Anyway, to answer the question, yes, thought Human Nature was one of the best stories Tennant done(Though not THE best). However, it was the one I thought he gave it his best performance. Playing two roles is never easy and we've seen the doppelganger/two role thing before with previous Doctors. This one was totally unique in that he was technically playing The Doctor but without his memories etc, it was something I hadn't seen before in Doctor Who before and I loved it. I thought Martha was great in it and it got me wondering how the hell he would become The Doctor again, though we knew in the end he really had to and the bit at the end where we thought he'd stayed as John Smith were brilliant.

Have to say though, thought when he started touching things at random in the spaceship, aside from thinking it was very Terror Of The Zygons, I sort of had an inkling it might be The Doctor mucking about and was relieved when it was him...great stuff!

Yes-right up until the third story, when the character finally comes together as the man we'd know for the next few decades. Once the Doctor has that 'moment' in Edge of Destruction where he realises how wrong he's been, that's it.

Web of Fear was one of my first, too-and I still have that same battered old copy!

Only one of a number of Script Editors and certainly not the first. I'm sure if the words Helen, Raynor and she, for example, were substituted for Terrance, Dicks and he, you wouldn't be saying that!

I don't think you can compare Helen Raynor's contribution to the show (or very many other people's, for that matter) to Terrance's. The man's a legend.

Yay! See? We CAN be positive when we put our minds to it!

I think there's a feeling among some people that, as real DW fans (or geeks, nerds, or whatever other term of endearment you prefer...) we're not allowed to simply enjoy an episode for what it represents, but instead are expected to pick it apart, scene by scene, line by line, and make out it was rubbish.

Why? Let's have some more positive, uplifting posts, celebrating this wonderful thing called Doctor Who!

'He hates tyranny and oppression and anything that is anti-life. He never gives in and he never gives up, however overwhelming the odds against him. The Doctor believes in good and fights evil. Though often caught up in violent situations he is a man of peace. He is never cruel or cowardly. In fact, to put it simply, the Doctor is a hero'.

I love this quote but I would interpret it in a different way, surely the Family were anti-life and evil to be defeated? I also think the 'man of peace' representation was changed during the last 5 years precisely becasue he is so deeply affected by the time war, wehich is why he treats the family so callously and then walks away, he probably did far worse when destroying the timelords?

That said I did like the Terence Dicks books and view of the doctor his book version of hand of fear just freaked me out when I was a nipper, ah fun times...

Not really...the second Doctor was known to be manipulative, as was the Seventh Doctor.....Six tried to strangle his companion, and all of them have in a way "punished" the creatures they have faught against....whether it be tripping up Eldrad with his scarf, or shooting a cybermen....seriously...how different is that from the Tenth Doctor punishing the Family...and in all fairness, that is what they wanted, and he had given them the chance to die naturally....

And the Third Doctor rather callously shot an Ogron with a disintegrator gun in Day of the Daleks. Of all his punitive strikes, that one alone still strikes me as out of character. The Ogron was miles away, probably didn't even see him...

Had to check that as not heard that name before...and yep its because I haven't seen that story before...

But yes...it just goes to prove that the Doctor isn't a simple hero....there are many facets to him...

I liek to think thats why he actually works as a hero becasue he sort of wants to be but doesnt always go about it the best way, fundamentally flawed, which in spite of the whole godlike thing, I think comes across in things like Family of Blood or Dalek as the best examples of it and as for the cowardice thing I think ecclestones dr says he's a coward every time when he fails to destroy them (again) tho latimer says that as well i think in human nature/FOB. In fact doesnt the lone dalek taunt the 9th as being the coward who ran away from the time war?

Well if you haven't read my thread on if we dissect episodes too much, then read it, several people have agreed with what you just said!!!

David Tennant is a fine actor and even though it's far too early still to compare him to Matt Smith, I cant help but do it. Maybe Matt Smith needs a script like HM/FOB before we can truly compare the two but for now I think most if not all of us are agreed that Matt Smith will make a fine Doctor.

Well as for the 2 parter itself.... It's a gift, a treat, something for everybody and I would recommend it to anyone particularly those who need introducing to Doctor Who.


There are so many emotional levels to the script. I mean, for most of the episode you see the Family of Blood as this malevolent, dangerous, evil band of aliens that could be a match for even the Doctor. The Doctor and Martha ran from them and were desperate that the family didn't see their faces. Then of course you get the flip side of the coin. The Doctor didn't "need" to run away from the family. He didn't need to hide. He didn't need to create John Smith. The Chameleon Arch seems like a fine invention, but I don't think, in his alien-ness that he truly considered what using it actually meant. Creating a human being, a whole new person with his own life and his own mind. And then of course putting a perception filter on the very thing that would reverse the process.

My favourite pieces in the whole story are the ending sequences from "John Smith" revealing himself to the family (love that performance from David Tennant), The delivery of punishments to the family...

Incidentally, about that I think this provides a clue as to how long the 10'th Doctor might have lived. In the dialogue, "Son of Mine" says that the Doctor visits "Sister of Mine" once a year, every year to her mirror. Possibly what we saw was the Doctor's first visit trapping her in the mirror but the clue is very clear once that over time, numerous visits are made to her as 10.

I think people are right about the Doctor's Time Lord nature when he asks Joan to travel with him. What strikes me about this is that he has only recently accepted Martha as a companion. What room is there for her Martha when he asks. I get the feeling The Doctor means just him and Joan and I just think it was slightly disrespectful to Martha who had looked after him throughout his time as a human.

Anyway the clincher is that final scene at Old Tim Latimer's memorial. Doesn't even need any dialogue, you can just sense what his memories of the Doctor, the War and the FOB watch he gave to him meant to him. Magical stuff and it's always a pleasure to watch.

The Sixth Doctor trying to strangle Peri hardly counts, as that was presumably caused by some kind of post-regeneration psychosis. And the Doctor killed some of his enemies, yes, but we've never seen elsewhere the Doctor sentencing his enemies to eternal torment. That did leave a bad taste for me. I think the fact that one of the enemies appears to be a little girl makes it worse. Yes, we know she is actually an alien who murdered the little girl and took her form, but still, the appearance does draw a certain emotional response.

That apart, though, I think the story was very good indeed. The idea of the Doctor being stripped of his memories and believing himself to be just a normal human was genius, and Joan Redfern, the young boy and the Family were great characters.

Fair enough that you could explain away the Sixth Doctor's strangling Peri as post-regeneration trauma (although no other Doctor has turned to that yet) but what about Vengeance on Varos....where he basically makes no attemp to save the atendees from falling into the Acid bath...only for him to leave with a quip saying that he is glad he isn't joining them??? And for all we know Eldrad could still be alive....and yes the Tenth Doctor punished the family etranally, but the little girl got a slighlty better punishment than the rest of the family...she is forever stuck in a mirror...but much less than being stuck as a scarecrow and in the heart of a dead star....he couldn't let her off just because she looked like a little girl when she wasn't at all.

No, no other Doctor behaved homicidally after regeneration, but then perhaps regeneration doesn't always affect Time Lords in the same way?

I can't defend some of the Sixth Doctor's behaviours too much, because I disliked them myself, but the fact remains that he didn't consign anyone to eternal torment. (And I took it that Eldrad died)

I accept the logic that he couldn't let Daughter of Mine off just because she looked like a little girl; I'm just saying the normal human response is there, logical or not.

What an excellent post.


For me the very best of Doctor Who (old and new) stands out as drama in its own right, certain episodes could be shown entirely separate from the series they are in and be a single stand alone drama and they would still work. If there was no such thing as a Doctor Who series these episodes would hold thier own.


As for Martha, I agree, and on a similar point whilst many saw the whole Martha arc as her just being a love sick puppy I always saw it more as an arc for the Doctor, how he had a companion along for the sake of it, a rebound companion. There are many times when he is quite nasty to her, and it isn't really until the end when she 'walks the earth' when she stands up and makes the sacrifice, that they both realize they aren't meant to travel together. I thought this whole arc was beautifully played out and very subtle at times. Saying that series 3 is my fave.

I watched these episodes and they always entertain and sadly highlight the defiencies of the new series so far. They are a touch more grown up where as the new series seems to have gone a little bit childish, and thats where I feel Tennant and Ecclestones Dr's are better than the current Dr. As an actor Smith I believe could be as good as both however the direction of the show is hampering that.

In all fairness though Sir Jasper the last 4 series have had their fair share of childish episodes but they were balanced out with other styles and it was that, for me anyway, which was one of the things I enjoyed the most. One week it would be one aimed more at the kids and Id enjoy them for that, the next episode a more thoughtful one and the next episode an out and out farce the next an out and out sci fi. One of the main strengths of the last 4 years IMO.








edit
Sorry everone I didnt mean to deflect the thread.


Back on track, yes HN/FOB are up there in the all time classic list, very high up in my little list

A fantastic 2-parter, one of the best the show will ever see! Tennant's portrayal of John Smith is truely heartbreaking.

I miss Ten

As I said before, Smith still has a bit of growing up to do himself and I can't wait to see how he handles a script on a par with Fathers Day or Family of Blood, it might be a while before he gets to take on such a story. It's just that whenever I see David Tennant in the role, he just looks so at ease with, and just acts. Not that i'm trying to demean Smith at all. His biggest crime is being different. Not being David Tennant. Smith has plenty of time to win the hearts of all Whovians.


Would have been great drama I admit. Would have worked as a "Special" episode.v The "Fury of the Time Lord". I wonder if it was the same fury that made him run away from the Family in the first place rather than kindness. Rather than display that fury through punishments he'd rather just let them die out.

The Doctor's treatment of Martha makes you wonder sometimes if it is actually fun travelling with him, I mean she took quite a lot of harsh treatment from him because she was so besotted. The puppydog angle is always there and I think that's why it took the Doctor so long to accept her. That said, I don't think the Doctor understood how much Rose meant to the Doctor until Utopia and his conversation with Jack and I think she decided there and then that her adventures with the Doctor were coming to an end.

This was originally intended for Trollheart's "farewell thread", but the thread got deleted before I could post it!
If he or she is still reading, here it is anyway.

Just to respond to your question about Human Nature/The Family of Blood, which I quote above. Sorry I didn't read that thread in any detail otherwise I would have responded there, you are quite right to ask this, and I don't think there is any very good answer!
While I thought the story was excellent, and really well executed by all concerned, it always had one very big niggle for me too.
It was mainly (as is often the case with DW) that the resolution was all just too quick and easy. The Doctor gets his memories back, waltzes into the enemy spaceship, presses a few buttons, and it's all over. And he does it with his usual flippancy, bordering on contempt. I found it very hard to believe that if defeating the baddies was that easy, why in hell was the Doctor so frightened of them in the first place that he had to run and hide from them?! Sorry, that made no sense whatsoever!

Sorry that you don't feel that you've been well-treated here, and I hope you will stick with it. There will always be people who will defend criticisms of the show, sometimes irrationally, but at the end of the day everyone has different opinions about the same thing. The important thing is that both criticisms and praise should be genuine, and justified with evidence if necessary.