My problem is with the charts and a lot of mainstream music is a lack of diversity. Rewind back to the 70', 80's and even 90's and you had a lot more diversity, although a lot of it was still generic pop, you had different sounds and different genre's that would chart well as well. But nowadays it's an absolute lockout at the top. I mean X-factors stranglehold on the Christmas number 1 was only broken as a result of a facebook campaign telling people what to buy. Even still I think if you scratch beyond the surface of mainstream music and not just follow like a sheep then there is a lot of good music to be discovered. Especially with the internet. That coupled with my collection of records from the 70's 80's and even 90's I have a countless collection of brilliant records. I'm just waiting for the day when the diversity in music charts is back and instead of just the most popular brands dominating the charts some alternative groups will break through. Like for example the Ska movement fuelled by the likes of The Specials. I think that people should stop lamenting the state of music today and try and put a more concerted effort into finding new music. A lot of them will be surprised by what they find. Nowadays things are so simple, you don't even have to leave the home to buy a record or sorry mp3, and the Internet provides unlimited resources for discovery of music that fits to your taste both old and new.
I'm really sick of certain people moaning about ''today's'' music....
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us moaners do scratch beyond the surface though, what makes everyone think the moaners don't listen to anything bar Radio 1 before they realise that music is in it's worse state since pop was invented? 
:yawn:
I suggest you two both go and look up the differences between "opinions" and "facts." Nothing that has been stated in either of these posts is a fact; they're merely subjective opinions. Shame people can't remove their heads from up their anal passages to see that.
If that is truly what you think all music today is, then I feel sorry for you. Again, look beyond the dirge that's churned out by Radio One and its ilk.
Originally Posted by Pitman:
“it's just an opinion but todays music can't hold a candle to thirty and forty years ago, well no, it's not an opinion it's a fact
get used to the moaning, plenty more when that came from.
”
“it's just an opinion but todays music can't hold a candle to thirty and forty years ago, well no, it's not an opinion it's a fact
get used to the moaning, plenty more when that came from.
”
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“the point is that 'todays music' isnt really 'todays' is it.... its just rehashed retro. im not saying that it cant be good, but in this hyped up age where rampant commercialism rules, modern technology makes even the dullest of artists seem good, the musicianship and creativity certainly ISNT as good as what it was.
sometimes im damn glad im 'old'... at least i witnessed the evolution in pop music and remembers the time when each generation had their own identity and sound.. you lot have NOTHING new.”
“the point is that 'todays music' isnt really 'todays' is it.... its just rehashed retro. im not saying that it cant be good, but in this hyped up age where rampant commercialism rules, modern technology makes even the dullest of artists seem good, the musicianship and creativity certainly ISNT as good as what it was.
sometimes im damn glad im 'old'... at least i witnessed the evolution in pop music and remembers the time when each generation had their own identity and sound.. you lot have NOTHING new.”
I suggest you two both go and look up the differences between "opinions" and "facts." Nothing that has been stated in either of these posts is a fact; they're merely subjective opinions. Shame people can't remove their heads from up their anal passages to see that.
Originally Posted by CXC3000:
“IMO, music has gone downhill since 1997 onwards. All we hear today is 'guitar' music (minus the 'pop idol' stuff).
How anyone can like such depressing 'noise' is beyond me.
What happened to happy music from the 80s ? - music that put you in a good mood instead of making you suicidal ?”
“IMO, music has gone downhill since 1997 onwards. All we hear today is 'guitar' music (minus the 'pop idol' stuff).
How anyone can like such depressing 'noise' is beyond me.
What happened to happy music from the 80s ? - music that put you in a good mood instead of making you suicidal ?”
If that is truly what you think all music today is, then I feel sorry for you. Again, look beyond the dirge that's churned out by Radio One and its ilk.
Originally Posted by PrincessPerfect:
“I'm shocked you read my posts -
it's nice to know you agree though.”
“I'm shocked you read my posts -
it's nice to know you agree though.”
yea i'm pretty sure we've had disagreements.. nothing too heated tho lol
Originally Posted by CXC3000:
“IMO, music has gone downhill since 1997 onwards. All we hear today is 'guitar' music (minus the 'pop idol' stuff).
How anyone can like such depressing 'noise' is beyond me.
What happened to happy music from the 80s ? - music that put you in a good mood instead of making you suicidal ?”
“IMO, music has gone downhill since 1997 onwards. All we hear today is 'guitar' music (minus the 'pop idol' stuff).
How anyone can like such depressing 'noise' is beyond me.
What happened to happy music from the 80s ? - music that put you in a good mood instead of making you suicidal ?”
Have you listened too the radio / watched tv in the last 8 years ??
Originally Posted by PrincessPerfect:
“My deal is certain people thinking their opinion is fact and almost having a snobbish attutide to music forgetting the real why music exsists. Its not to be considered good by a bunch of musical purists. It is to make people feel good.”
“My deal is certain people thinking their opinion is fact and almost having a snobbish attutide to music forgetting the real why music exsists. Its not to be considered good by a bunch of musical purists. It is to make people feel good.”
Any particular reason as to why can't I say the same thing in reverse? Or you just wanted to vent your disagreement... Which is fine of course. It's just a Q. Quite often there is an appreciation thread, or at least a thread used as such for a relatively modern artist, with the majority of people saying Person X is perfect, fantastic, or whatever in a snobbish sense.
Quote:
“There opinion to me doesn't matter - what matters is the factual stance they take on the matter. I also have no idea if new music was mocked in the past.”
“There opinion to me doesn't matter - what matters is the factual stance they take on the matter. I also have no idea if new music was mocked in the past.”
Pretty sure this did happen in the past. Anyway, only ones you've pick out are the people who act snobby in disagreement or disapproval of modern music. Even if you've done a thread about 40's music or whatnot, your own tastes may be secure, however, you haven't targeted any of the snobs in reverse play on the modern music bar, so opinion must matter to an extent, or this thread likely wouldn't exist.
The hillarious thing about it all is that the people who say it now, heard it from there parents. And their parents heard it from their parents etc.
Originally Posted by PrincessPerfect:
“Your opinion is not fact you might as well get to grips with it. Nothing, no music is enterily orginal it was all insipired from another music before it. To pretend that pre 2000s everything was orginal is laughable.
BTW, Grime music would fit your ''new music'' cateogory.
Like it or not, your opinion is just that. An opinion.”
“Your opinion is not fact you might as well get to grips with it. Nothing, no music is enterily orginal it was all insipired from another music before it. To pretend that pre 2000s everything was orginal is laughable.
BTW, Grime music would fit your ''new music'' cateogory.
Like it or not, your opinion is just that. An opinion.”
sorry you are totally wrong.
period 50's to mid 80's music WAS original, it is a FACT that the beat boom was 'new', bubblegum was 'new', psycadelia was new, punk, glam, prog rock, two tone, reggae, motown, soul, indie, new wave, new romantics, goth.... THEY WERE ALL NEW SOUNDS ... that is a FACT not an opinion!
whether they were any good or not is opinion...
Originally Posted by Refusion:
“:yawn:
I suggest you two both go and look up the differences between "opinions" and "facts." Nothing that has been stated in either of these posts is a fact; they're merely subjective opinions. Shame people can't remove their heads from up their anal passages to see that.
.”
“:yawn:
I suggest you two both go and look up the differences between "opinions" and "facts." Nothing that has been stated in either of these posts is a fact; they're merely subjective opinions. Shame people can't remove their heads from up their anal passages to see that.
.”
... so its not a fact that pop groups/pop music arose from the beatles etc in the 1960's? its not a fact that from the 50's to the mid 80's there was a succession of differing styles that were created then?.... tell me... please find me a pop group from the 1940's! reggae from the 1820's !!!
utter nonsense! all the great genres , all the great sounds, the basics, WERE created in that time period. for the last 20 odd years all you have had is minor variations on those styles. .... that isnt opinion, that isnt subjective, that IS a fact!
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“... so its not a fact that pop groups/pop music arose from the beatles etc in the 1960's? its not a fact that from the 50's to the mid 80's there was a succession of differing styles that were created then?.... tell me... please find me a pop group from the 1940's! reggae from the 1820's !!!”
“... so its not a fact that pop groups/pop music arose from the beatles etc in the 1960's? its not a fact that from the 50's to the mid 80's there was a succession of differing styles that were created then?.... tell me... please find me a pop group from the 1940's! reggae from the 1820's !!!”
I don't think I said anything like that, so I'm not really sure what your point is.
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“utter nonsense! all the great genres , all the great sounds, the basics, WERE created in that time period. for the last 20 odd years all you have had is minor variations on those styles. .... that isnt opinion, that isnt subjective, that IS a fact!”
“utter nonsense! all the great genres , all the great sounds, the basics, WERE created in that time period. for the last 20 odd years all you have had is minor variations on those styles. .... that isnt opinion, that isnt subjective, that IS a fact!”
I'm sorry, but it is a subjective opinion; there is NO CONCLUSIVE PROOF THAT MUSIC RELEASED 20/30 YEARS AGO IS BETTER THAN TODAY'S MUSIC. ALL WE HAVE ARE OPINIONS FROM BORES WHO THINK THAT ANYTHING RELEASED AFTER X YEAR IS NOT WORTH THEIR TIME. I am getting utterly sick to the back teeth of people whose heads are rammed so far up their arses that they cannot see this.
If you're so certain that it's a fact, show me something that proves it, then.
I'm also aware that we're getting variations on styles that were created in the ~Good Days of Music™~, but once again, there is no proof that these are not as good as what they were born from. Of course, you're welcome to try and find me proof of that, too.
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“... please find me a pop group from the 1940's! reggae from the 1820's !!!
utter nonsense! all the great genres , all the great sounds, the basics, WERE created in that time period. for the last 20 odd years all you have had is minor variations on those styles. .... that isnt opinion, that isnt subjective, that IS a fact!”
“... please find me a pop group from the 1940's! reggae from the 1820's !!!
utter nonsense! all the great genres , all the great sounds, the basics, WERE created in that time period. for the last 20 odd years all you have had is minor variations on those styles. .... that isnt opinion, that isnt subjective, that IS a fact!”
Plenty of 1940s pop groups: The Andrews Sisters, Four Vagabonds, Glenn Miller Band...You're going to come back that they were swing or jazz groups, but that's what pop music was then. The term just hadn't quite been invented. As far back as the 1930s, there were groups like the Boswell Sisters who could fairly be described as pop groups in the modern sense.
I would also argue that there hav been genres created in the past 20 years, particularly in the fields of electronica and metal.
Originally Posted by Refusion:
“I'm sorry, but it is a subjective opinion; there is NO CONCLUSIVE PROOF THAT MUSIC RELEASED 20/30 YEARS AGO IS BETTER THAN TODAY'S MUSIC. ALL WE HAVE ARE OPINIONS FROM BORES WHO THINK THAT ANYTHING RELEASED AFTER X YEAR IS NOT WORTH THEIR TIME. I am getting utterly sick to the back teeth of people whose heads are rammed so far up their arses that they cannot see this.
If you're so certain that it's a fact, show me something that proves it, then.
I'm also aware that we're getting variations on styles that were created in the ~Good Days of Music™~, but once again, there is no proof that these are not as good as what they were born from. Of course, you're welcome to try and find me proof of that, too.”
“I'm sorry, but it is a subjective opinion; there is NO CONCLUSIVE PROOF THAT MUSIC RELEASED 20/30 YEARS AGO IS BETTER THAN TODAY'S MUSIC. ALL WE HAVE ARE OPINIONS FROM BORES WHO THINK THAT ANYTHING RELEASED AFTER X YEAR IS NOT WORTH THEIR TIME. I am getting utterly sick to the back teeth of people whose heads are rammed so far up their arses that they cannot see this.
If you're so certain that it's a fact, show me something that proves it, then.
I'm also aware that we're getting variations on styles that were created in the ~Good Days of Music™~, but once again, there is no proof that these are not as good as what they were born from. Of course, you're welcome to try and find me proof of that, too.”
if you care to read what id put earlier youd see i wasnt on about it being 'better', but ORIGINAL.... and these original styles were real to those exponants of it. it wasnt 'paint by numbers' music, it was creative, live, unlike what you see today which is broadly fancy dress and karaoke, copying retro styles. im not berating all of todays music, indeed i like plenty of it, but it aint original .
you want facts? well just how many tracks from the last ten years have been critically acclaimed? where are the merits toward songwriters? which tracks are groundbreaking?
i see no one in 'the modern age' who composed great pop standards like what lennon/mccartney have, bjorn /benny, morrissey/marr, ray davis, paul weller, bob dylan, simon and garfunkel etc etc etc ... they and others have credibility, respect and admiration for their work. and where are the great icon of 'the modern age'? there hasnt been 1 in the last ten years... from elvis, the beatles, hendrix, madonna, hell even kylie! ... id suggest that the lack of these points quite firmly to the lack of credible or 'good' music.
Originally Posted by Mallaha:
“Plenty of 1940s pop groups: The Andrews Sisters, Four Vagabonds, Glenn Miller Band...You're going to come back that they were swing or jazz groups, but that's what pop music was then. The term just hadn't quite been invented. As far back as the 1930s, there were groups like the Boswell Sisters who could fairly be described as pop groups in the modern sense.
I would also argue that there hav been genres created in the past 20 years, particularly in the fields of electronica and metal.”
“Plenty of 1940s pop groups: The Andrews Sisters, Four Vagabonds, Glenn Miller Band...You're going to come back that they were swing or jazz groups, but that's what pop music was then. The term just hadn't quite been invented. As far back as the 1930s, there were groups like the Boswell Sisters who could fairly be described as pop groups in the modern sense.
I would also argue that there hav been genres created in the past 20 years, particularly in the fields of electronica and metal.”
now youre being silly.... where are the big band sounds in pop?... nope...it died out! todays music is built upon the template the 60's created, not the 40's.
yeah i accept dance in particular reached its zenith in the 90's, but the rest is sub genres...
Originally Posted by CXC3000:
“What happened to happy music from the 80s ? - music that put you in a good mood instead of making you suicidal ?”
“What happened to happy music from the 80s ? - music that put you in a good mood instead of making you suicidal ?”
you mean like the smiths?
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“unlike what you see today which is broadly fancy dress and karaoke, copying retro styles. im not berating all of todays music, indeed i like plenty of it, but it aint original.”
“unlike what you see today which is broadly fancy dress and karaoke, copying retro styles. im not berating all of todays music, indeed i like plenty of it, but it aint original.”
Yes... that is what all music today is like.
You could have fooled me about not berating all of today's music (in this thread and other similar threads that I remember).
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“you want facts? well just how many tracks from the last ten years have been critically acclaimed? where are the merits toward songwriters? which tracks are groundbreaking?”
“you want facts? well just how many tracks from the last ten years have been critically acclaimed? where are the merits toward songwriters? which tracks are groundbreaking?”
Is there really any point in me listing anything in reply to this? Like with a lot of other points made in this thread, it is purely subjective opinion.
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“now youre being silly.... where are the big band sounds in pop?... nope...it died out! todays music is built upon the template the 60's created, not the 40's...”
“now youre being silly.... where are the big band sounds in pop?... nope...it died out! todays music is built upon the template the 60's created, not the 40's...”
Later Christina Aguilera - Candyman especially
Paloma Faith
Paolo Nutini
Basement Jaxx (some songs)
It also had a big influence on 50s swing and jive, which in turn influenced Motown and people like Phil Spector, which is referenced in modern and recent R&B, albeit weakly.
You could even stretch it out further and take the big band/swing sound all the way back to the 1920s.
Oh, and dance music and electronica are not the same thing.
Originally Posted by Mallaha:
“Later Christina Aguilera - Candyman especially
Paloma Faith
Paolo Nutini
Basement Jaxx (some songs)
It also had a big influence on 50s swing and jive, which in turn influenced Motown and people like Phil Spector, which is referenced in modern and recent R&B, albeit weakly.
You could even stretch it out further and take the big band/swing sound all the way back to the 1920s.
Oh, and dance music and electronica are not the same thing.”
“Later Christina Aguilera - Candyman especially
Paloma Faith
Paolo Nutini
Basement Jaxx (some songs)
It also had a big influence on 50s swing and jive, which in turn influenced Motown and people like Phil Spector, which is referenced in modern and recent R&B, albeit weakly.
You could even stretch it out further and take the big band/swing sound all the way back to the 1920s.
Oh, and dance music and electronica are not the same thing.”
yeah and 'doop'.... lol... all of it modernised in odd tracks here and there, as a style its long since dead.
nope, but they are related, dance being the biggest.
Originally Posted by Refusion:
“Yes... that is what all music today is like.
You could have fooled me about not berating all of today's music (in this thread and other similar threads that I remember).
Is there really any point in me listing anything in reply to this? Like with a lot of other points made in this thread, it is purely subjective opinion.”
“Yes... that is what all music today is like.
You could have fooled me about not berating all of today's music (in this thread and other similar threads that I remember).
Is there really any point in me listing anything in reply to this? Like with a lot of other points made in this thread, it is purely subjective opinion.”
the point is that in the past you didnt have to look hard to find 'good' (is in original) music, today it aint mainstream.
then you chose which bits to read and which to ignore, for eg, 2003 was one of my favourite years ever, beaten only by several years in the 60's and a couple in the 80's.
what is subjective about say, the beatles album 'revolver' being rated as one of the all time greats? the beatles won awards for their songwriting abilities, so did the others and more that i listed. surely it becomes a fact when tracks composed get accolades? is it really opinion or subjective IF a track by bjorn and benny from abba is critically acclaimed?
sorry, i dont agree that 'everything is down to opinion'... historically there are facts, many beatles, abba, smiths tracks are cited as cleverly composed by the critics, are you suggesting that an x factor karaoke track is really as good?
IMHO there are no great songwriters around today (not of the calibre of those ive mentioned), its all production teams writing pop pap or re-cycled indie dross.
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“yeah and 'doop'.... lol... all of it modernised in odd tracks here and there, as a style its long since dead.”
“yeah and 'doop'.... lol... all of it modernised in odd tracks here and there, as a style its long since dead.”
Big band swing as a genre may be very niche now, but swing stylings and influences pop up in all sorts of places, and hold an important place in the evolution of popular music. The basic swing beat still underpins a lot of "urban" music today, as well as some commercial dance music.
What we call pop music did not emerge and develop entirely between 1960 and 1989, as you claim. Its influences have been growing and developing and gathering pace for much longer than that, and continue to develop and split off into new sub-genres.
Music appreciation IS subjective, as well. Just because a lot of journos and industry people consider, say, Lennon and McCartney the best songwriters ever, the fact I don't doesn't make me wrong. It makes me from a different era, with different tastes, that's all. If you want to like classic pop music, that's fine, but if you want to like other forms of music, that is also fine. It doesn't make one person wrong.
Originally Posted by PrincessPerfect:
“People from a older decade should not expect the charts to have music which will appeal to them, because music is not aimed at people over 25.”
“People from a older decade should not expect the charts to have music which will appeal to them, because music is not aimed at people over 25.”
It would be interesting to see if you have the same limited perspective in 25 years.
Music - good music - may be aimed at a particular market, but its quality does not fade. I still enjoy hearing tunes from my long ago teenage years, and tunes aimed at that market before I was conceived! I also enjoy many forms of music from the beginnings of rock 'n' roll in the 50's right up to stuff fresh out this week.
What I don't enjoy, is plonkers without any discernible talent, making millions, and feeding us rubbish that won't be played next year, never mind in ten years time. It's an 'Emperor's New Clothes' syndrome, with some artists, but I don't expect to to either agree, or be able to contemplate such a thing.
Why do I and other older music fans think we have a right to comment? Because we've been listening to rock and pop music since before you were filling your nappy. We have something against which to judge output. I don't care if a musician is 17 or 75, just as long as the music made falls somewhere along the very broad ribbon of what I recognise as quality. It may not be aimed at me, but that doesn't stop me liking it, or conversely, thinking it's a load of sh*te.
It's not today's music thats the problem but its the charts , when you come across music that doesnt hit the charts you come across a new world of music.
I be lost without you tube its the place where ive discovered some of the most amazing artists and producers.
I be lost without you tube its the place where ive discovered some of the most amazing artists and producers.
Originally Posted by TranceClubber:
“I be lost without you tube its the place where ive discovered some of the most amazing artists and producers.”
“I be lost without you tube its the place where ive discovered some of the most amazing artists and producers.”
I hope, including some great stuff from yesteryear, and acts that should've been big but were not? Check out Hazel O'Connor's brother...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdooKC_vyDM
My point being, uTube and the Net in general means we do not have to accept a force-fed diet of Cowell clowns and American teens dressed like refugees from a hooker convention.
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“the point is that in the past you didnt have to look hard to find 'good' (is in original) music, today it aint mainstream.”
“the point is that in the past you didnt have to look hard to find 'good' (is in original) music, today it aint mainstream.”
And you don't have to look hard today, either.
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“what is subjective about say, the beatles album 'revolver' being rated as one of the all time greats? the beatles won awards for their songwriting abilities, so did the others and more that i listed. surely it becomes a fact when tracks composed get accolades? is it really opinion or subjective IF a track by bjorn and benny from abba is critically acclaimed?”
“what is subjective about say, the beatles album 'revolver' being rated as one of the all time greats? the beatles won awards for their songwriting abilities, so did the others and more that i listed. surely it becomes a fact when tracks composed get accolades? is it really opinion or subjective IF a track by bjorn and benny from abba is critically acclaimed?”
There's no point talking to me about The Beatles as I cannot stand them. Aren't awards decided by opinions, though; ergo, someone thinks something is good, so they award it something?
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“sorry, i dont agree that 'everything is down to opinion'... historically there are facts, many beatles, abba, smiths tracks are cited as cleverly composed by the critics, are you suggesting that an x factor karaoke track is really as good?”
“sorry, i dont agree that 'everything is down to opinion'... historically there are facts, many beatles, abba, smiths tracks are cited as cleverly composed by the critics, are you suggesting that an x factor karaoke track is really as good?”
I don't believe I've said anything of the sort.
Originally Posted by mushymanrob:
“IMHO there are no great songwriters around today (not of the calibre of those ive mentioned), its all production teams writing pop pap or re-cycled indie dross.”
“IMHO there are no great songwriters around today (not of the calibre of those ive mentioned), its all production teams writing pop pap or re-cycled indie dross.”
You do know what "IMHO" stands for, don't you? Are you admitting that what you're posting is an opinion, as opposed to a fact. I disagree that there are no great songwriters around today, but what's the point?
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