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I'm really sick of certain people moaning about ''today's'' music....


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Old 26-04-2010, 11:50
David Tee
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Commercial music in the charts is aimed at the under 25s because they are seen as the money generators.
Partially true. Commercial music in the charts has traditionally been aimed at teenagers because they are the group that buy singles in far greater quantities than any other group. They are also, from a Marketing perspective, far easier to reach. Older age groups pay comparatively little attention to the singles charts (I'm generalising, obviously)

However, singles have long since stopped being cash generators for record companies. They are now little more than a promotional device - something to get on the radio, on the TV, an excuse to get into the press - for selling albums (which is where the money lies) .... and it's the older age groups that are the album buyers.
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Old 26-04-2010, 12:48
Devon Miles
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I think the main difference from music in the 60's compared to now is the impact it had. Back then music was the culmination of many different drivers - young people suddenly having a louder voice and more freedom, music that was previously niche and underground was suddenly being accessed and interpreted by the young.. there are so many different factors that caused the explosion of modern music - the thing is it's happened now and not until there is a new sort of instrument completely or that traditional instruments are interpreted in a new previously unimagined way will music have the same cultural impact that it did back in the 60's.

I see it as akin to a planet exploding - from the start of the 20thC it was simmering away until the 60's when it exploded and now the star is slowly getting darker. And so is musics impact on culture...

In the 60's it changed culture in general hugely, in the 70's punk had a big effect but not so wide-ranging as the 60's sound, in the 80's rave, house and hip-hop was a big deal but not as culture changing as punk in the 70's - what have we had of comparative influence in the 90's, 00's and looking forwards the 10's?

There will always be great, ground-breaking musicians and there will always be great music but until something truly radical happens it will always have the same formula as the music of the past
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Old 26-04-2010, 14:18
mushymanrob
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Not wishing to be rude but in my experience, older people like yourself who bemoan a lack of originality don't really want that because the music with originaliity that's around today is all a bit too weird and alternative and out of their comfort zone. To me it appears that what they really want is music that's more to their taste and more like the music they enjoy from the past. This is often reflected in their examples of the music/artists they do like from today.

You were asking about pop music that has originality and artists/songwriters that are critically acclaimed. Well the most obvious example is Animal Collective and especially their album from last year. I suspect though, that it might make the ears bleed of people with more traditional taste. Probably why they don't make it into the charts.
im all for 'new'sounds , but as our generation created most that can be done i think the only 'new' original sounds now are pretty extreme, so you might have a point about comfort zones.... or is it desperation from todays youth? theres nothing wrong with raiding retro sounds/styles as long as you take it somewhere and add something to it... i dont like the fancy dress indie brigade who all dress the same and sound the same.

I think the point the 'oldies' are making is you didn't have to search for the best bands in the past - they defined the era and had a heavy presence in the charts. There simply aren't bands capable of making the same impact today which is why the charts are left to the pop princesses. Or old bands that have reformed like AC/DC.
thats spot on

In the 60's it changed culture in general hugely, in the 70's punk had a big effect but not so wide-ranging as the 60's sound, in the 80's rave, house and hip-hop was a big deal but not as culture changing as punk in the 70's - what have we had of comparative influence in the 90's, 00's and looking forwards the 10's?

There will always be great, ground-breaking musicians and there will always be great music but until something truly radical happens it will always have the same formula as the music of the past
tbh i dont agree with that. imho punk finished off what the 60's started, but lost its way in a drug fuelled haze! punk may have fed off the 60's inovations but it took it to new levels and instead of championing 'dropping out' and living in communes became political and gave youth a political voice. so its not only punk music and fashions that are abundant today, but social issues like equality for gay/black/women punk championed that are embedded in our society now. thankfully!
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Old 26-04-2010, 14:40
Gorky
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I think the point the 'oldies' are making is you didn't have to search for the best bands in the past - they defined the era and had a heavy presence in the charts. There simply aren't bands capable of making the same impact today which is why the charts are left to the pop princesses. Or old bands that have reformed like AC/DC.
If that's the only point the 'oldies' (as I said before, I'm not exactly young myself) were making it would be largely agreed on as even people who defend modern music know that the charts is full of alot of crap and some of the more popular artists are poor.

The disagreements come when people generalise about 'today's music' by trying to make out it's all like the popular/chart stuff when that's only a small proportion of it. We'd all like more quality and variety in the charts but that's just the way it is.

You also have to remember that the music scene/industry today is completely different to the past. New technology and the many more ways of accessing and consuming music means the charts are irrelevant to many people these days. And that greater accessibility and choice means everything is spread more thinly so it's harder for people without the marketing power behind them to make an impact.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't mind people criticising modern music as I find alot of it crap myself but I find some of the comparisons to the past unfair as they don't take account of how things have changed and the wider picture of today's music.
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Old 26-04-2010, 14:47
PrincessPerfect
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If that's the only point the 'oldies' (as I said before, I'm not exactly young myself) were making it would be largely agreed on as even people who defend modern music know that the charts is full of alot of crap and some of the more popular artists are poor.

The disagreements come when people generalise about 'today's music' by trying to make out it's all like the popular/chart stuff when that's only a small proportion of it. We'd all like more quality and variety in the charts but that's just the way it is.

You also have to remember that the music scene/industry today is completely different to the past. New technology and the many more ways of accessing and consuming music means the charts are irrelevant to many people these days. And that greater accessibility and choice means everything is spread more thinly so it's harder for people without the marketing power behind them to make an impact.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't mind people criticising modern music as I find alot of it crap myself but I find some of the comparisons to the past unfair as they don't take account of how things have changed and the wider picture of today's music.
Good post.
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Old 26-04-2010, 15:09
Mallaha
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im all for 'new'sounds , but as our generation created most that can be done i think the only 'new' original sounds now are pretty extreme, so you might have a point about comfort zones.... or is it desperation from todays youth?
All new artforms and cultural styles are considered shocking when they first appear. Even The Beatles were considered shocking by some of the older generation of their day, and then there was the whole "satanic cult" moral panic surrounding heavy metal in the 70s, which reappeared in the 1990s/2000s with Marilyn Manson, especially relating to the Columbine shootings.

The only way to push things forward is to embrace the new and the extreme. It's not desperation, it's progress.
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Old 26-04-2010, 15:15
Devon Miles
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All new artforms and cultural styles are considered shocking when they first appear. Even The Beatles were considered shocking by some of the older generation of their day, and then there was the whole "satanic cult" moral panic surrounding heavy metal in the 70s, which reappeared in the 1990s/2000s with Marilyn Manson, especially relating to the Columbine shootings.

The only way to push things forward is to embrace the new and the extreme. It's not desperation, it's progress.
Quite and before the Beatles many US parents were outraged with Elvis' 'suggestive' hip wiggling!

I don't see much that is really 'new & extreme' though these days (not that i look that hard) - i do think that since the radical change of the 60's modern music's progression has slowed noticeably more and more each decade
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Old 26-04-2010, 16:39
mushymanrob
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All new artforms and cultural styles are considered shocking when they first appear. Even The Beatles were considered shocking by some of the older generation of their day, and then there was the whole "satanic cult" moral panic surrounding heavy metal in the 70s, which reappeared in the 1990s/2000s with Marilyn Manson, especially relating to the Columbine shootings.

The only way to push things forward is to embrace the new and the extreme. It's not desperation, it's progress.
true....

i dunno, pushing things foreward for the sake of it and at the expense of something real and heartfelt appears desperate. id sooner something be done good with feeling even if its unoriginal then be extreme for the sake of being extreme.
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Old 26-04-2010, 17:06
Mallaha
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true....

i dunno, pushing things foreward for the sake of it and at the expense of something real and heartfelt appears desperate. id sooner something be done good with feeling even if its unoriginal then be extreme for the sake of being extreme.
You can be extreme and have feeling. It's not mutually exclusive.
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Old 26-04-2010, 17:17
nathanbrazil
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You can be extreme and have feeling. It's not mutually exclusive.
Yes, which in some ways puts me in mind of Kate Bush. A musician who does what she wants, when she wants, has always been ahead of the curve, and whose last album was arguably the best thing she's done!

It doesn't matter that she's now 50 something, KB's influence extends to the present, with the likes of the Lemonheads, Bat for Lashes, and the most recent song from Little Boots, (called Echoes), which sounds like it fell off a KB album. The same kind of deal is true for Bowie, Prince and perhaps a dozen other true innovators.

We see this effect again and again, in all areas of music, with the past heavily influencing the present and future. What I'd like to see more of, if possible, is genuine innovation. But I wonder, is that still possible, or has it all basically been done?
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Old 26-04-2010, 18:53
PrincessPerfect
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Speaking of KB, I love her - does anyone know if she might release new music soon?
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Old 26-04-2010, 19:49
nbennett17
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I expect shes got a new album coming out in about 12/13 years or so.

Can someone name/recommend some of these great groups outside the charts? I occasionally come across some that are good, but it's not easy searching Spotify, looking for groups i've never heard of. Add to that that i'm not keen on Synth and think there's an increasing trend for songwriters to get slow-emotional mixed up with boring, and it's really hard.
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Old 27-04-2010, 07:29
nathanbrazil
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Speaking of KB, I love her - does anyone know if she might release new music soon?
Ah, common ground. KB is the nearest I come to religion. I hear that she is working on new material, and as it's been five years since the last album, it is entirely possible that it could be another five years until the next. Then again, we may be pleasantly surprised.

Meanwhile, if you haven't stumbled upon this page yet, it may be of some interest.

http://www.dongrays.com/kate-bush/mp3/
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Old 27-04-2010, 08:17
PrincessPerfect
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Ah, common ground. KB is the nearest I come to religion. I hear that she is working on new material, and as it's been five years since the last album, it is entirely possible that it could be another five years until the next. Then again, we may be pleasantly surprised.

Meanwhile, if you haven't stumbled upon this page yet, it may be of some interest.

http://www.dongrays.com/kate-bush/mp3/
Thank you for news and link.
On this thread topic, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree!!!!
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Old 27-04-2010, 09:54
Mallaha
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Can someone name/recommend some of these great groups outside the charts? I occasionally come across some that are good, but it's not easy searching Spotify, looking for groups i've never heard of. Add to that that i'm not keen on Synth and think there's an increasing trend for songwriters to get slow-emotional mixed up with boring, and it's really hard.
What sort of thing are you looking for? Do you prefer more of a guitar sound? Hip hop? Metal?

Try searching for Dresden Dolls. They defy categorisation and I'd be interested to know what you think. Several of their videos are on Youtube and I think their Myspace still has full-length songs.
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Old 27-04-2010, 13:12
nbennett17
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What sort of thing are you looking for? Do you prefer more of a guitar sound? Hip hop? Metal?

Try searching for Dresden Dolls. They defy categorisation and I'd be interested to know what you think. Several of their videos are on Youtube and I think their Myspace still has full-length songs.
I know The Dresden Dolls/Amanda Palmer/Evelyn Evelyn and do really like them all.
Any sort of traditional style of music (Music Hall, Cabaret, Blues, Prohibition Jazz even) mixed with Pop/Rock. I always like a Piano, Keyboard or Organ too.
So Kinks, Bowie, Kate Bush, Mott The Hoople, Elton John, Supergrass, Small faces, Blur as references
Not hip-hop or metal though.
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Old 27-04-2010, 15:27
Mallaha
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Any sort of traditional style of music (Music Hall, Cabaret, Blues, Prohibition Jazz even) mixed with Pop/Rock. I always like a Piano, Keyboard or Organ too.
So Kinks, Bowie, Kate Bush, Mott The Hoople, Elton John, Supergrass, Small faces, Blur as references
Not hip-hop or metal though.
Have you heard The Polyphonic Spree? It sounds as if they might be your sort of thing. Also M Ward, a blues-style US singer-songwriter, and any of his side projects, one of which is She & Him with the actress Zooey Deschanel. It's surprisingly good.
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Old 27-04-2010, 19:23
Mike_1101
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This was discussed on another thread recently.

If you didn't see it, here are some songs recommended by a friend of mine who follows today's music


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPXPIx1LlPY (Hot Chip - One Life Stand) sounds rather like Depeche mode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_oMD6-6q5Y (Marina & The Diamonds - I am Not a Robot).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg0UsO5SFb8 (Villagers - Becoming a Jackal)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FFpfF2AZzY (Alphabeat - Hole in My Heart)

also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3bbiUmw1gE "Freezing" by Mozella.

So yes, there is some good music still being made.
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Old 28-04-2010, 03:58
fezxenakis
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Seriously, you may not like it. Fine. It may not be to your taste. Fine. But don't state your opinions on the quality of modern music as fact. Music is subjective, you can't cateogorize ''good'' and ''bad'' music.
See if you can spot the opinion stated as fact.
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Old 28-04-2010, 11:05
Shizuku
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Thought some of you guys who don't like 'todays music' might like this, if you don't fair enough, but these guys just make good solid pop/rock tunes.

Their influences are Chuck Berry, Ray Charles, Otis Redding, 50's and 60's rock and roll. They write all their stuff themselves, release it on their own label and tour about 6 months a year... you might recognise them http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...eoid=104317949

Someone mentioned they like piano, keyboard, organ sounds, well this band is also a big fan and their latest record is very piano driven.

If you like the video, check out their official website and read their biog and check out the media section, you might be suprised at the amount of material they've put out and what they've been doing all this time.
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Old 28-04-2010, 11:12
Noir75
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Seriously, you may not like it. Fine. It may not be to your taste. Fine. But don't state your opinions on the quality of modern music as fact. Music is subjective, you can't cateogorize ''good'' and ''bad'' music.

If we went by certain people's perceptions of music in the past you'd think music then was Beethoven like fgs.

And when did the charts represent the quality of music we listen to? ''The charts is littered with so and so'' ''the charts is full of rubbish etc etc etc''. The charts are a measurement of popularity, not quality. So why do people expect what they consider to be ''good music'' to be in the charts?

The chart makes up a largerly young demographic i.e teenagers, so they will buy whatever is marketed to them.

People forget when you are teenager your tastes are changing every day as you are just discovering what you like/dislike musically.

Don't mock teenagers for there taste in music - mock the radio stations who limit what type of music they are exposed to.

Also, if people try to find music they actually like instead of expecting it to be handed to them on a plate then maybe they'd discover the real gems of today's music which may not be in the charts due to lack of promotion/airplay but is very good.

People from a older decade should not expect the charts to have music which will appeal to them, because music is not aimed at people over 25. Teenagers are seen as the money generators, so therefore is it unlikely someone over 25 will like it. Although my mum who is in her 40s is very open minded and actually doesn't spend her time just slagging off everything after 2003.

Just like people who apperciate music in eras such as the sixties would like people to seek out that music and apperciate instead of seeing it as ''old stuff'' is the same way I feel about the music of today. Because it simply more than the Top 40 and we ought to be more postitive and apperciate and speard the word about the music we do love, instead of spending 60% of the time slagging something off.


No doubt someone will get offended and attack me, but hey it's a free world.
The commercialised music that dominates the charts is complete shyte. Style over substance, voices altered with autotune.

Absolute pony.
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Old 28-04-2010, 12:22
PrincessPerfect
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The commercialised music that dominates the charts is complete shyte. Style over substance, voices altered with autotune.

Absolute pony.
And?........
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Old 28-04-2010, 12:23
PrincessPerfect
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See if you can spot the opinion stated as fact.

That is a really shite argument.
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Old 28-04-2010, 15:10
fezxenakis
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That is a really shite argument.
No it isn't.

Everyone from time to time, including you whether you like it or not, states their opinions as fact because from their point of view those are the facts as they see them and it's quicker then putting IMO before every sentence. The fact that most of the stuff on this forum is opinion should be self-evident and you're free to disagree, as you have been doing all along, even when people write "fact" at them end of a post. So where's the problem? True, none of those people, who may think their opinion is the correct one are going to be as persuasive as someone who hears all sides of the argument and takes a balanced view but that's their problem, not yours.

You keep saying that you don't have a problem with the argument when you clearly do, as someone else has already pointed out. It's got little to do with opinions stated as facts.

To argue that musical appreciation is "objective" and down to the listeners knowledge of the art form may be a bit extreme, and distasteful to you, but it is a valid viewpoint. Just as valid as saying that music is entirely "subjective". My own view, as with most things in life, lies somewhere in between those two extremes, though I do lament what I perceive as a general lack of objectivity and musical education, as you can probably tell.

I'm a pianist and if music is completely subjective then I pretty much wasted my life attempting to go from this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRapS...eature=related

to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpZr_cbYbXo

who knows maybe I did....
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Old 28-04-2010, 15:26
Noir75
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No it isn't.

Everyone from time to time, including you whether you like it or not, states their opinions as fact because from their point of view those are the facts as they see them and it's quicker then putting IMO before every sentence. The fact that most of the stuff on this forum is opinion should be self-evident and you're free to disagree, as you have been doing all along, even when people write "fact" at them end of a post. So where's the problem? True, none of those people, who may think their opinion is the correct one are going to be as persuasive as someone who hears all sides of the argument and takes a balanced view but that's their problem, not yours.

You keep saying that you don't have a problem with the argument when you clearly do, as someone else has already pointed out. It's got little to do with opinions stated as facts.

To argue that musical appreciation is "objective" and down to the listeners knowledge of the art form may be a bit extreme, and distasteful to you, but it is a valid viewpoint. Just as valid as saying that music is entirely "subjective". My own view, as with most things in life, lies somewhere in between those two extremes, though I do lament what I perceive as a general lack of objectivity and musical education, as you can probably tell.

I'm a pianist and if music is completely subjective then I pretty much wasted my life attempting to go from this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRapS...eature=related

to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpZr_cbYbXo

who knows maybe I did....
wow, that last video was immense. That man is playing some insane melody. How the hell can people learn to play like that, its amazing!! Nice find.
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