|
||||||||
I'm really sick of certain people moaning about ''today's'' music.... |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#126 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 22,520
|
Quote:
Commercial music in the charts is aimed at the under 25s because they are seen as the money generators.
However, singles have long since stopped being cash generators for record companies. They are now little more than a promotional device - something to get on the radio, on the TV, an excuse to get into the press - for selling albums (which is where the money lies) .... and it's the older age groups that are the album buyers. |
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#127 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,914
|
I think the main difference from music in the 60's compared to now is the impact it had. Back then music was the culmination of many different drivers - young people suddenly having a louder voice and more freedom, music that was previously niche and underground was suddenly being accessed and interpreted by the young.. there are so many different factors that caused the explosion of modern music - the thing is it's happened now and not until there is a new sort of instrument completely or that traditional instruments are interpreted in a new previously unimagined way will music have the same cultural impact that it did back in the 60's.
I see it as akin to a planet exploding - from the start of the 20thC it was simmering away until the 60's when it exploded and now the star is slowly getting darker. And so is musics impact on culture... In the 60's it changed culture in general hugely, in the 70's punk had a big effect but not so wide-ranging as the 60's sound, in the 80's rave, house and hip-hop was a big deal but not as culture changing as punk in the 70's - what have we had of comparative influence in the 90's, 00's and looking forwards the 10's? There will always be great, ground-breaking musicians and there will always be great music but until something truly radical happens it will always have the same formula as the music of the past |
|
|
|
|
|
#128 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: derby
Posts: 14,765
|
Quote:
Not wishing to be rude but in my experience, older people like yourself who bemoan a lack of originality don't really want that because the music with originaliity that's around today is all a bit too weird and alternative and out of their comfort zone. To me it appears that what they really want is music that's more to their taste and more like the music they enjoy from the past. This is often reflected in their examples of the music/artists they do like from today.
You were asking about pop music that has originality and artists/songwriters that are critically acclaimed. Well the most obvious example is Animal Collective and especially their album from last year. I suspect though, that it might make the ears bleed of people with more traditional taste. Probably why they don't make it into the charts. Quote:
I think the point the 'oldies' are making is you didn't have to search for the best bands in the past - they defined the era and had a heavy presence in the charts. There simply aren't bands capable of making the same impact today which is why the charts are left to the pop princesses. Or old bands that have reformed like AC/DC.
![]() Quote:
In the 60's it changed culture in general hugely, in the 70's punk had a big effect but not so wide-ranging as the 60's sound, in the 80's rave, house and hip-hop was a big deal but not as culture changing as punk in the 70's - what have we had of comparative influence in the 90's, 00's and looking forwards the 10's?
There will always be great, ground-breaking musicians and there will always be great music but until something truly radical happens it will always have the same formula as the music of the past |
|
|
|
|
|
#129 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,312
|
Quote:
I think the point the 'oldies' are making is you didn't have to search for the best bands in the past - they defined the era and had a heavy presence in the charts. There simply aren't bands capable of making the same impact today which is why the charts are left to the pop princesses. Or old bands that have reformed like AC/DC.
The disagreements come when people generalise about 'today's music' by trying to make out it's all like the popular/chart stuff when that's only a small proportion of it. We'd all like more quality and variety in the charts but that's just the way it is. You also have to remember that the music scene/industry today is completely different to the past. New technology and the many more ways of accessing and consuming music means the charts are irrelevant to many people these days. And that greater accessibility and choice means everything is spread more thinly so it's harder for people without the marketing power behind them to make an impact. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't mind people criticising modern music as I find alot of it crap myself but I find some of the comparisons to the past unfair as they don't take account of how things have changed and the wider picture of today's music. |
|
|
|
|
|
#130 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: In the red mist
Posts: 19,787
|
Quote:
If that's the only point the 'oldies' (as I said before, I'm not exactly young myself) were making it would be largely agreed on as even people who defend modern music know that the charts is full of alot of crap and some of the more popular artists are poor.
The disagreements come when people generalise about 'today's music' by trying to make out it's all like the popular/chart stuff when that's only a small proportion of it. We'd all like more quality and variety in the charts but that's just the way it is. You also have to remember that the music scene/industry today is completely different to the past. New technology and the many more ways of accessing and consuming music means the charts are irrelevant to many people these days. And that greater accessibility and choice means everything is spread more thinly so it's harder for people without the marketing power behind them to make an impact. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't mind people criticising modern music as I find alot of it crap myself but I find some of the comparisons to the past unfair as they don't take account of how things have changed and the wider picture of today's music.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#131 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: DTG Bunker
Posts: 5,044
|
Quote:
im all for 'new'sounds , but as our generation created most that can be done i think the only 'new' original sounds now are pretty extreme, so you might have a point about comfort zones.... or is it desperation from todays youth?
The only way to push things forward is to embrace the new and the extreme. It's not desperation, it's progress. |
|
|
|
|
|
#132 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,914
|
Quote:
All new artforms and cultural styles are considered shocking when they first appear. Even The Beatles were considered shocking by some of the older generation of their day, and then there was the whole "satanic cult" moral panic surrounding heavy metal in the 70s, which reappeared in the 1990s/2000s with Marilyn Manson, especially relating to the Columbine shootings.
The only way to push things forward is to embrace the new and the extreme. It's not desperation, it's progress. I don't see much that is really 'new & extreme' though these days (not that i look that hard) - i do think that since the radical change of the 60's modern music's progression has slowed noticeably more and more each decade |
|
|
|
|
|
#133 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: derby
Posts: 14,765
|
Quote:
All new artforms and cultural styles are considered shocking when they first appear. Even The Beatles were considered shocking by some of the older generation of their day, and then there was the whole "satanic cult" moral panic surrounding heavy metal in the 70s, which reappeared in the 1990s/2000s with Marilyn Manson, especially relating to the Columbine shootings.
The only way to push things forward is to embrace the new and the extreme. It's not desperation, it's progress. i dunno, pushing things foreward for the sake of it and at the expense of something real and heartfelt appears desperate. id sooner something be done good with feeling even if its unoriginal then be extreme for the sake of being extreme. |
|
|
|
|
|
#134 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: DTG Bunker
Posts: 5,044
|
Quote:
true....
i dunno, pushing things foreward for the sake of it and at the expense of something real and heartfelt appears desperate. id sooner something be done good with feeling even if its unoriginal then be extreme for the sake of being extreme. |
|
|
|
|
|
#135 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: AccountKiller
Posts: 8,749
|
Quote:
You can be extreme and have feeling. It's not mutually exclusive.
It doesn't matter that she's now 50 something, KB's influence extends to the present, with the likes of the Lemonheads, Bat for Lashes, and the most recent song from Little Boots, (called Echoes), which sounds like it fell off a KB album. The same kind of deal is true for Bowie, Prince and perhaps a dozen other true innovators. We see this effect again and again, in all areas of music, with the past heavily influencing the present and future. What I'd like to see more of, if possible, is genuine innovation. But I wonder, is that still possible, or has it all basically been done? |
|
|
|
|
#136 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: In the red mist
Posts: 19,787
|
Speaking of KB, I love her - does anyone know if she might release new music soon?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#137 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 79
|
I expect shes got a new album coming out in about 12/13 years or so.
Can someone name/recommend some of these great groups outside the charts? I occasionally come across some that are good, but it's not easy searching Spotify, looking for groups i've never heard of. Add to that that i'm not keen on Synth and think there's an increasing trend for songwriters to get slow-emotional mixed up with boring, and it's really hard. |
|
|
|
|
|
#138 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: AccountKiller
Posts: 8,749
|
Quote:
Speaking of KB, I love her - does anyone know if she might release new music soon?
KB is the nearest I come to religion. I hear that she is working on new material, and as it's been five years since the last album, it is entirely possible that it could be another five years until the next. Then again, we may be pleasantly surprised.Meanwhile, if you haven't stumbled upon this page yet, it may be of some interest. http://www.dongrays.com/kate-bush/mp3/ |
|
|
|
|
#139 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: In the red mist
Posts: 19,787
|
Quote:
Ah, common ground.
KB is the nearest I come to religion. I hear that she is working on new material, and as it's been five years since the last album, it is entirely possible that it could be another five years until the next. Then again, we may be pleasantly surprised.Meanwhile, if you haven't stumbled upon this page yet, it may be of some interest. http://www.dongrays.com/kate-bush/mp3/ ![]() On this thread topic, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
#140 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: DTG Bunker
Posts: 5,044
|
Quote:
Can someone name/recommend some of these great groups outside the charts? I occasionally come across some that are good, but it's not easy searching Spotify, looking for groups i've never heard of. Add to that that i'm not keen on Synth and think there's an increasing trend for songwriters to get slow-emotional mixed up with boring, and it's really hard.
Try searching for Dresden Dolls. They defy categorisation and I'd be interested to know what you think. Several of their videos are on Youtube and I think their Myspace still has full-length songs. |
|
|
|
|
|
#141 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 79
|
Quote:
What sort of thing are you looking for? Do you prefer more of a guitar sound? Hip hop? Metal?
Try searching for Dresden Dolls. They defy categorisation and I'd be interested to know what you think. Several of their videos are on Youtube and I think their Myspace still has full-length songs. Any sort of traditional style of music (Music Hall, Cabaret, Blues, Prohibition Jazz even) mixed with Pop/Rock. I always like a Piano, Keyboard or Organ too. So Kinks, Bowie, Kate Bush, Mott The Hoople, Elton John, Supergrass, Small faces, Blur as references Not hip-hop or metal though. |
|
|
|
|
|
#142 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: DTG Bunker
Posts: 5,044
|
Quote:
Any sort of traditional style of music (Music Hall, Cabaret, Blues, Prohibition Jazz even) mixed with Pop/Rock. I always like a Piano, Keyboard or Organ too.
So Kinks, Bowie, Kate Bush, Mott The Hoople, Elton John, Supergrass, Small faces, Blur as references Not hip-hop or metal though. |
|
|
|
|
|
#143 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Lancs
Posts: 7,928
|
This was discussed on another thread recently.
If you didn't see it, here are some songs recommended by a friend of mine who follows today's music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPXPIx1LlPY (Hot Chip - One Life Stand) sounds rather like Depeche mode. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_oMD6-6q5Y (Marina & The Diamonds - I am Not a Robot). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg0UsO5SFb8 (Villagers - Becoming a Jackal) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FFpfF2AZzY (Alphabeat - Hole in My Heart) also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3bbiUmw1gE "Freezing" by Mozella. So yes, there is some good music still being made. |
|
|
|
|
|
#144 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 891
|
Quote:
Seriously, you may not like it. Fine. It may not be to your taste. Fine. But don't state your opinions on the quality of modern music as fact. Music is subjective, you can't cateogorize ''good'' and ''bad'' music.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#145 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,986
|
Thought some of you guys who don't like 'todays music' might like this, if you don't fair enough, but these guys just make good solid pop/rock tunes.
Their influences are Chuck Berry, Ray Charles, Otis Redding, 50's and 60's rock and roll. They write all their stuff themselves, release it on their own label and tour about 6 months a year... you might recognise them http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...eoid=104317949 Someone mentioned they like piano, keyboard, organ sounds, well this band is also a big fan and their latest record is very piano driven. If you like the video, check out their official website and read their biog and check out the media section, you might be suprised at the amount of material they've put out and what they've been doing all this time. |
|
|
|
|
|
#146 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,109
|
Quote:
Seriously, you may not like it. Fine. It may not be to your taste. Fine. But don't state your opinions on the quality of modern music as fact. Music is subjective, you can't cateogorize ''good'' and ''bad'' music.
If we went by certain people's perceptions of music in the past you'd think music then was Beethoven like fgs. And when did the charts represent the quality of music we listen to? ''The charts is littered with so and so'' ''the charts is full of rubbish etc etc etc''. The charts are a measurement of popularity, not quality. So why do people expect what they consider to be ''good music'' to be in the charts? The chart makes up a largerly young demographic i.e teenagers, so they will buy whatever is marketed to them. People forget when you are teenager your tastes are changing every day as you are just discovering what you like/dislike musically. Don't mock teenagers for there taste in music - mock the radio stations who limit what type of music they are exposed to. Also, if people try to find music they actually like instead of expecting it to be handed to them on a plate then maybe they'd discover the real gems of today's music which may not be in the charts due to lack of promotion/airplay but is very good. People from a older decade should not expect the charts to have music which will appeal to them, because music is not aimed at people over 25. Teenagers are seen as the money generators, so therefore is it unlikely someone over 25 will like it. Although my mum who is in her 40s is very open minded and actually doesn't spend her time just slagging off everything after 2003. Just like people who apperciate music in eras such as the sixties would like people to seek out that music and apperciate instead of seeing it as ''old stuff'' is the same way I feel about the music of today. Because it simply more than the Top 40 and we ought to be more postitive and apperciate and speard the word about the music we do love, instead of spending 60% of the time slagging something off. No doubt someone will get offended and attack me, but hey it's a free world. Absolute pony. |
|
|
|
|
|
#147 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: In the red mist
Posts: 19,787
|
Quote:
The commercialised music that dominates the charts is complete shyte. Style over substance, voices altered with autotune.
Absolute pony. |
|
|
|
|
|
#148 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: In the red mist
Posts: 19,787
|
Quote:
See if you can spot the opinion stated as fact.
That is a really shite argument. |
|
|
|
|
|
#149 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 891
|
Quote:
That is a really shite argument. Everyone from time to time, including you whether you like it or not, states their opinions as fact because from their point of view those are the facts as they see them and it's quicker then putting IMO before every sentence. The fact that most of the stuff on this forum is opinion should be self-evident and you're free to disagree, as you have been doing all along, even when people write "fact" at them end of a post. So where's the problem? True, none of those people, who may think their opinion is the correct one are going to be as persuasive as someone who hears all sides of the argument and takes a balanced view but that's their problem, not yours. You keep saying that you don't have a problem with the argument when you clearly do, as someone else has already pointed out. It's got little to do with opinions stated as facts. To argue that musical appreciation is "objective" and down to the listeners knowledge of the art form may be a bit extreme, and distasteful to you, but it is a valid viewpoint. Just as valid as saying that music is entirely "subjective". My own view, as with most things in life, lies somewhere in between those two extremes, though I do lament what I perceive as a general lack of objectivity and musical education, as you can probably tell. I'm a pianist and if music is completely subjective then I pretty much wasted my life attempting to go from this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRapS...eature=related to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpZr_cbYbXo who knows maybe I did.... |
|
|
|
|
|
#150 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,109
|
Quote:
No it isn't.
Everyone from time to time, including you whether you like it or not, states their opinions as fact because from their point of view those are the facts as they see them and it's quicker then putting IMO before every sentence. The fact that most of the stuff on this forum is opinion should be self-evident and you're free to disagree, as you have been doing all along, even when people write "fact" at them end of a post. So where's the problem? True, none of those people, who may think their opinion is the correct one are going to be as persuasive as someone who hears all sides of the argument and takes a balanced view but that's their problem, not yours. You keep saying that you don't have a problem with the argument when you clearly do, as someone else has already pointed out. It's got little to do with opinions stated as facts. To argue that musical appreciation is "objective" and down to the listeners knowledge of the art form may be a bit extreme, and distasteful to you, but it is a valid viewpoint. Just as valid as saying that music is entirely "subjective". My own view, as with most things in life, lies somewhere in between those two extremes, though I do lament what I perceive as a general lack of objectivity and musical education, as you can probably tell. I'm a pianist and if music is completely subjective then I pretty much wasted my life attempting to go from this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRapS...eature=related to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpZr_cbYbXo who knows maybe I did....
|
|
|
|
![]() |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 16:18.





