Hiya

I've posted before on here but said I would update:

The biopsy is back with no indication of cancer. The vet is now suggesting removing the left anal sac (the one where the abcess was which they flushed).

I've asked to speak to the vet in detail about this as I want to be sure this is actually the problem. They didn't think it was his anal gland after all as he was still ill after they flushed it hence the biopsy for suspected cancer.

I'm not able to inject him anymore as he gets very distressed with me doing it now so am now having to put painkillers on his food. I've had to stop doing the anti-b injections for the same reason but as he'd been on them since his anal gland flush (well over a week) he should be OK on the infection front. He's barely eating and sleeps a lot and is still leaving bits of poo around the house wherever he sits (and it's now black).

I'm just not happy with the vets. Last thing I want to do is have another lot of surgery (it would be his his 3rd this month) unless I know it's going to sort him out. He's over 11 (we don't know his real age as he's a rescue cat) and has a heart murmur they've just told me, so aneasthesia is risky for him. I had to take him to the vets Weds night as an emergency as he was in pain pooing, and he gets so distressed going there I just don't want to keep putting him thru further surgery and vet trips unless I know it'll solve the problem.

How do I handle the discussion with the vet?

Oh dear frisky python, you and your cat have really been though it

I'm sure you'd be entitled to talk to your vet and if necessary ask for a second opinion (maybe a specialist )

Have you got an animal hospital attatched to a vet's school near you ?

Failing that, you could try asking on this cat thread, or if you can't log on to the site, I could ask for you.See link .

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbarchers/F...thread=7406790

So sorry to hear this has not yet been resolved, good news that it does not appear to be cancer, but it doesn't help your poor puss who is in such discomfort. Black poo is not good either.

As you have lost confidence in your vet (from the sound of it) personally I would find another vet asap. You don't have to ask his permission to get a second opinion, although it would be a courtesy to tell him you are doing so. Unless you are in a very rural area there should be a reasonable choice of local vets - do you have any cat-owning friends or neighbours who could recommend someone?

If you do go this route, your old vet should be happy to pass your notes to the new vet, by fax or whatever other method is easiest.

Thanks Curmy and Lippincote.

I've actually spoken to the vet who would be doing the surgery today. He has said it's not just left anal gland removal as he says there is swelling there and he doesn't know what he'll find (although says it's a mass). He is proposing removing the mass which may extend back into the cat. He may not be able to remove all of it. It may leave the cat temporarily or permanently incontinent. It may not even solve the problem.

I've told him of my worries, the fact this'll be the 3rd surgery this month and it may not resolve Charlie's problems or discomfort. I've said I'm concerned about putting him through it all unless there is a positive outcome, but the vet has said he can't give me that guarantee. He said he has to put it back to me to consider Charlie's quality of life at his age, and whether euthanasia would be the route to consider. We might want to play it by ear, take each week as it comes, and go from there and just do pain management.

The cost of surgery is an estimate of £300 but could be more as they don't know to what extent this mass has gone into the rest of his body.

So there is my dilemma. Part of me feels I don't want to put him through any more, and yet the other part wonders if it will solve his problems. Mr Python feels it's better to have him put down.

It is such an important decision, and the vet is so uncertain of the nature of the problem or outcome, I would still be looking for a second opinion from another vet before deciding. My first thought would be to speak to the chief vet at the practice (assuming you haven't already) or failing that, a vet at another practice. But obviously it's up to you, none of us can do any more than sympathise. Poor Charlie, hope he is not feeling too bad at the moment.

:Oh dear poor Charlie, I agree speak to the chief vet or get a second opinion.

Failing that if it's going to be an invasive op which could leave him incontinent, I know it's traumatic, but could you be with Charlie and cuddle him when he's put under for the op, on

the understanding that if they find a large tumour they don't let him wake up ?

(I don't want to sound negative but at least you'll have been there with him.)

I think before you make any firm decisions, it would be wise to get another opinion. 11 is still relatively young for a cat nowadays. My dog had both his anal glands removed, and whilst it is an operation I wouldn't rush into, he has had no further problems with his glands, and no incontinence problems.

I would either urge you to ask for a referral to a specialist vet, or seek the advice of another vet.

Hi again
The vet I spoke to is the clinical manager so a senior position in the practice. The previous vet who did the biopsy was the oncologist specialist. The only other local vet is one my parents used and they switched to this practice as they thought it better. The practice I use has a team of 10 surgeon vets whereas the other practice has just one surgeon vet so I'm not sure a 2nd opinion from that surgery will get us any further as he has effectively seen 3 different vets in the same practice.

I'm going to have a think, maybe ask some more questions (like would an xray/scan show what mass there is and where it extends to?) but husband has pointed out that we just can't have an incontinent cat in the house with 2 young kids. I have however pointed out to my hubby that the cat would be very distressed with being incontinent and would severely interfere with his quality of life (he likes being outdoors and hates being held to be groomed or anything so incontinence pants are just a no-no).

At the mo Charlie isn't doing too bad, mooching around as cats do, sleeping by my side of the bed and eating Tuna (with his meds on in liquid form).

It sounds as though you've got all the opinions possible .

Hi, it's not just his anal glands, it's actually a mass they are talking about removing. If it was just his anal gland and they were sure it would correct his current problems then I would go ahead with it. Just don't want to go ahead, only for cat to go through trauma of surgery and recovery, and be left incontinent with part of tumour unable to be removed (which is what vet has suggested could happen) and still be in pain. 11 is the absolute youngest he could be as we don't know how old he actually was when we got him.

I'm inclined to say (subject to being able to afford it) you should go with the operation, hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst.

Of course the vet won't state that the operation will solve the problems. No surgeon will ever categorically state what the outcome will be, because no operation is ever 100% certain or safe.

Sorry to say this, and I dont wish to upset you, but I think it may be for the best if you let the poor cat out of its misery and have him put down.

Ive known people in very similer situations to you and they think that vets can cure any problems and help thier cat, but they cant.

I dont think its fair to keep an animal alive just for you, when its in so much pain and not enjoying life.

Obviously its up to you, but I would have the cat put to sleep if it were me. Sorry about your poor cat but think of him and the pain he is in, and will be in.

Its not really fair for humans to keep an animal in pain just so we dont feel the pain when they are gone.

Yeh, I suppose 3 vets in I should accept what they say. I guess I just want them to be sure so I can make a decision based on sound advice because at the mo I feel it's so unknown that they just can't say what will happen until they go in and open him up. I'm finding it hard to say whether he should effectively have exploratory op I suppose. He really hates being at the vets, he's actually down as "very nervy, handle with caution" because he just freaks when he is there. Do I want his last moments to be like that is what I'm thinking about too should we say don't resus if the tumour is big.

Thanks. Am actually in debt already over his treatment so far! But would go further into debt if I knew it would work.

I know they can't say 100% it will sort him out as surgery is risky, but I neither do I want them doing this op, only to find a month down the line he needs another op for something else because this op didn't fix him IYSWIM (he's already had two ops in the last month).

My hubby agrees with you. I'm just trying to judge what is best for my cat not just short but long term too. And I'm finding that tough cos there is no definitive line on this for me. I'm prepared to let him go when I feel it's best for him, have done this before for another pet but knew it was the right thing which makes the decision easier really.

I can only tell you what I'd do in your situation (provided the cost of the surgery wasn't a problem, of course). I'd go for the surgery. No-one can tell any more about what they'll find until they have a direct look, that's just the ways things are. Hopefully everything will be OK - if there's an infection, it's possible that the swelling is related to that, and will go away when the gland is removed. But if not, and if there is a serious problem and your cat's life will be seriously affected, then you need to make the decision for him and for all of you to have him put down. At least you will know that you did everything you possibly could.

Having a plan for all eventualities gives you some certainties, and it will help.

There is no sound advice, because the vets don't/won't know what they will find, until/unless they operate.


Nobody can say it will work, because they don't know for certain what they will find.

Your decision cannot be based on hard facts, because there aren't any.

You will have to base it on your instincts.

Agree with Bob.
You have had expert advice from three vets so there is nothing any of us can add to that except our opinions of what we would each do, there is not necessarily a 'right answer'. The cost of the surgery would not be a factor for me, only the welfare of the animal, and you are the only one who knows your cat well enough to make that decision. Whichever choice you make, you may think it was the wrong one, there are no certainties.

Frisky Python , if you decide to have Charlie put to sleep, could you get the vet to come to the house ?

I know it's more expensive, but it might be less traumatic for him.

An update. Have spent the week thinking about what to do. Charlie has had a mostly good week, he's eating more for a start. He's now bleeding from his backside but doesn't seem in pain from it apart from one episode when he was trying to pooh, but then I am giving him painkillers to help him.

He is going in for the op on Thursday morning (earliest appt). I will be seeing the vet beforehand to discuss it, and we have asked that if the tumour is inoperable or if it's removal will make him incontinent, to let him go under the aneasthetic. We have also decided that this will probably be the last time we'll put him through another op to find out what is causing his problem. If he is still unwell after the op we will discuss an end of life pain management until his quality of life is such that it would be kinder to have him put to sleep. He gets very distressed at the vets and I don't want him to have to go through anymore after this, it's not fair on him. I feel awful about putting him through this op as he'll hate going in again, but feel I have to give him a chance really.

I'll update on here again at the end of the week when we know how it's gone.

Thanks for the update frisky python, I think you're right to give him a chance, though I understand how distressing this has been for you, not to mention poor Charlie.

I'm sure we'll all be thinking about you,please keep us updated.(HUGS)

I hope it all goes well for him on Thursday. I made a similar decision re my cat having sugery last year (completely different ailment) I told them not to wake her up from the anaesthetic if they couldn't cure the problem, as she is semi feral and very distressed by vet interventions. She was fine and back home the same day, and back to good health very quickly. I hope Charlie is similarly lucky.

Thanks everyone for your replies!

Charlie had surgery today and they found he had a perineal hernia. Apparently whilst common in dogs it's quite rare in cats. The vet hadn't seen it in a cat in 20 yrs of practising! So they've patched him up and hope it is now resolved. However there is a chance this will be recurrent so will have to see.

The vet just called me to say as Charlie hates it there (he's very unco-operative!) I can bring him home tonight.

That is great news! Hope he is feeling a lot better very soon.

Oh that really is great news!
I am sure the vet will give detailed aftercare advice, but I am presuming that keeping the bowels running smoothly now will prevent any undue pressure in that area. I can recommend a daily dose of Slippery elm powder either added to food or mashed into a small pat of butter, alternate with a half teaspoon of soaked linseeds. These are tasteless so normally well tolerated but add great lubrication to the gut. A few drops of salmon oil added to food will also aid bowel function as well as being of benefit to older joints and coats.